Where to find.... ethanol free gas?????
- Thread starter CptKelly
- Start date
Patrol Guy
FRIEND
east of the river
deleted
Ruffair
GONE WEST
Lower Chena
the local gas stations here in the middle of no-where supply regular gas with NO ethanol. The av gas at the airport just went up to 5.999 ... from 4.999......... the gas station people are staying away from the ethanol, don't know for how long.... as some in government want to make it mandatory to have it in all gas..... bummer.... In the 2005 monte carlo we get 32 mph with real regular, and 26 with 10% ethanol..... not to mention ya can't run it in the planes....
I land here at the ranch and fill up with regular from the tractor gas tank that I have delivered. for now
I land here at the ranch and fill up with regular from the tractor gas tank that I have delivered. for now
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Mike, Check with the Mom and Pop stations. The two here have no alcohol but the big name stations do. I asked the owners if their fuel had alcohol and it was surprising that they have been asked that question a lot.
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
Ruffair wrote
That's quite a drop since on a btu calculation it should only be 1 mile per gallon. 10% has 96.6% as much energy as straight unleaded. Maybe the unleaded the ethanol is mixed with is the culprit. My Mom's 2000 Buick LeSabre with 3800 V6 has gotten as high as 32 mpg on 10% so according to your experience it should get close to 40 mpg on straight unleaded.
F
FiftyNineSC
I'm seeing a repeatable 3 mpg drop in my 2008 VW rabbit.
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
This is interesting. A guy here in town with a Honda CRV took a trip and couldn't get 10% but said the mileage was within 1 or 2 tenths. Also interesting is how a Toyota Camry running 30% did better than straight unleaded for the Mn and North Dakota people in a various blend test using apples to apples driving conditions. Could it be like the Performance Airmotive 3 in exhaust thread where Crash and Cubflier just compared several mufflers and found no difference?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/study-finds-cer.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/study-finds-cer.html
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
CptKelly said:
Mike,
In areas where ethanol is not mandated by government it's really hard to keep track. We have stations around here (Oshkosh WI area) that seem to change on a weekly basis. Sometimes they have ethanol, and sometimes not. It would be impossible to try to keep any web directory current in this type of situation. The only thing you can do is get a test kit and test the fuel you plan to use and make sure it doesn't contain ethanol.
Seaworthy
FOUNDER
Massachusetts
The airport in Plymouth, MA (KPYM) gets "certified, 93 octane gas without ethanol from Petersen, the folks who sell the Mogas STC.
Allegedly, there are many areas around USA that do not "ethylate" the gas.
This may be pure BS, but I met a guy parked across from me at Sentimental Journey who had a champ with an O-320. He told me he has been burning gas from local gas stations (with ethanol) for two years without a problem. Personally---
I don't believe it, but hey, who knows. I've seen someone put lawnmower gas in their plane that had been sitting around over the winter. Yes---the engine quit at 500 ft and he made a hard landing damaging the LG.
Allegedly, there are many areas around USA that do not "ethylate" the gas.
This may be pure BS, but I met a guy parked across from me at Sentimental Journey who had a champ with an O-320. He told me he has been burning gas from local gas stations (with ethanol) for two years without a problem. Personally---
I don't believe it, but hey, who knows. I've seen someone put lawnmower gas in their plane that had been sitting around over the winter. Yes---the engine quit at 500 ft and he made a hard landing damaging the LG.
Mathew Sharp
Registered User
Bend, OR
N4653B said:
Cool! I have a 06 VW Rabbit! I've been running Shell V-Power lately because they claim it has no ethanol in it.
Seaworthy
FOUNDER
Massachusetts
I asked him about carb ice, engine running poorly/ldecrease in power, or decrease in range. He said everything stayed the same. Seems far fetched to me, but what do I know, Could be that his engine crapped the bed on the way home for all I know. (he lived in SW Ohio).
WWhunter
FRIEND
Near the Headwaters of the Mighty Mississippi Rive
I unknowingly put ethanol blended gas in my 172 several times. I had been using gas from the same place for years and one day the owner told me that there was ethanol in the fuel and had been for quite some time. Since it wasn't placarded I ASSUMED he was still selling straight gas. I found this out because I has a seal go bad in my primer and the only reason I could figure out was due to the alcohol. (Seal was hardened).
Other than that I had no issues with it. I have been running car gas in the 172 (O-300) for nearly 20 years with no problems. As a matter of fact I am in Iowa City as I type this and burned just over 7gph for the 3.5 hour flight down here. Dang, what dad's do so his son can visit a girlfriend!!! :lol:
Other than that I had no issues with it. I have been running car gas in the 172 (O-300) for nearly 20 years with no problems. As a matter of fact I am in Iowa City as I type this and burned just over 7gph for the 3.5 hour flight down here. Dang, what dad's do so his son can visit a girlfriend!!! :lol:
I think that a lot of us who use auto fuel have burned alcohol blended fuel and were not aware of it.This issue reminds me of the doom and gloom we heard when 80 octane was being phased out and car gas was being the only alternative.My guess is we are going to have to find a way to use the gasohol stuff one way or the other.My guess is that there's some of us who already have experience with it now, just like the car gas thing in the 70's and 80's.
jnorris
MEMBER
Wisconsin
cubx3 said:
That's probably true, as having alcohol in the fuel doesn't always cause problems. However, I've talked to a number of people who have experienced problems, so there is always some potential. Swollen hoses, stuck float needles, deteriorated seals and gaskets, softened sealers, corrosion in tanks and lines. All these things are potential problems when you introduce alcohol into the fuel system of an existing aircraft like most of our Super Cubs and the like. That's why the STCs specifically prohibit auto fuel that contains alcohol.
WWhunter
FRIEND
Near the Headwaters of the Mighty Mississippi Rive
Pretty ironic that this subject is on here. I flew down to Iowa City for a few days visit and was talking to a friend down there about the group of RV-3 that flies on Ethanol. Pretty surprised when I was getting ready to depart KIOW yesterday that this very group of RV's lands. I went over to discuss there experiences with ethanol and what they had done to convert the planes. They said they hadn't done a thing. One of the original builders is who I talked to and he said they were built in 1990 (?). They used more fuel per hour while burning 98-99% alcohol. He did say they had recently changed out the rubber fuel lines but that they should be changed every so many years on a regular plane also. He relayed that most new rubber products out there are compatible with the ethanol.
Keith
Keith
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
I'd like to add my 2 cents on water content and phase separation. Around here if we had much water being added to the ethanol blended gas there should be all kinds of stalled cars in the winter. The fuel comes out of the ground at around 50 degrees at the station and goes into a tank where it could get down to minus 20 degrees. That would be ideal conditions for phase separation if the fuel was suspending much water. I've done a little experimenting by adding a little water, a few drops at a time to a sample of fuel in a glass jar and found that fuel that is fairly warm will hold some percentage of water but as it is cooled(refrigerated) it will turn cloudy/murky and then will drop/phase separate when cooled enough. If the fuel is "dry" it will stay crystal clear even when really cold. This is my observation and if you like to experiment, you might try it also.
brown bear
Registered User
emporia ks
Where to find... ethanol free gas?????
Burning 10% ethanol in a plane with out doing a phase test for water{and no Marty,s test will not do}makes about as mush sense as not sumping your fuel when you per-flight your plane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doug Wilson
Burning 10% ethanol in a plane with out doing a phase test for water{and no Marty,s test will not do}makes about as mush sense as not sumping your fuel when you per-flight your plane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doug Wilson
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Why doesn't this RV3 team write an article about their experience with ethanol?
Since it is such a great alternative why doesn't someone get an STC to burn it in our airplanes?
If you check the specs. on Mil6000, Stratoflex 111 and Aeroquip 303 hose you will find it is all compatible with alcohol. Can't find anything on gascolator and carburetor parts.
Since it is such a great alternative why doesn't someone get an STC to burn it in our airplanes?
If you check the specs. on Mil6000, Stratoflex 111 and Aeroquip 303 hose you will find it is all compatible with alcohol. Can't find anything on gascolator and carburetor parts.
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
Steve Pierce wrote
I'm surprised you haven't talked to them at Oshkosh. They've been there every year that I've been, parked just off of the north edge of the cement where the military parks the C-130, C-5 and other big stuff. Greg Poe had an article not long ago. Cessna Owner had an article about Texas Skyways in 1998 or so.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Ethanol is today Marty. 1998 is a little dated. I figured with the whole country using it there would be some current press on it as it effects aircraft. I don't get to spend a lot of time at OSH anymore and ethanol research is the last thing I want to do there.
brown bear
Registered User
emporia ks
Where to find...ethanol free gas?????
You guys should be aware that the phase separation has to do with the % of water to ethanol. So running 100% ethanol,like those RV3,s or even 85% would require much larger amounts of water than the 10% blend to have trouble.That may well make it safer than the lower % ethanol fuel
But please !! if you are thinking of flying with corn in your tank find a source for you info. that is not at the end of the money trail .
Fly safe.
DW
:roll:
You guys should be aware that the phase separation has to do with the % of water to ethanol. So running 100% ethanol,like those RV3,s or even 85% would require much larger amounts of water than the 10% blend to have trouble.That may well make it safer than the lower % ethanol fuel
But please !! if you are thinking of flying with corn in your tank find a source for you info. that is not at the end of the money trail .
Fly safe.
DW
:roll:
May seem like a silly question, but....
This may seem like a silly question, but what if you took a 55 gallon drum of gasoline that has ethanol in it, and add to it several gallons of water, then mix the solution. After allowing the solution to separate, drain off the lower level. Wouldn't that remove the (soluable) ethanol? Then use it just like no-ethanol gas....
Mike
This may seem like a silly question, but what if you took a 55 gallon drum of gasoline that has ethanol in it, and add to it several gallons of water, then mix the solution. After allowing the solution to separate, drain off the lower level. Wouldn't that remove the (soluable) ethanol? Then use it just like no-ethanol gas....
Mike
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Mike, They put ethanol in gasoline for 3 reasons. Tax incentive, to up the octane and as an oxygenate. Wouldn't want to take the alcohol out if it is used to boost the octane. Here avgas is about $1 higher than car gas, draining out part of the car gas and throwing it away probably wouldn't be cost effective. Best thing to do is plant switch grass. You only have to plant it once, apply herbicide once and cut it. No plowing, planting or fertilizing. Just cut it and using wood chips you can make ethanol a whole lot more efficiently than with corn. 
