Survival gear

DO NOT BUY DOWN FOR SURVIVAL!!!!


Sheesh, let's do the math here: Ski pilot over due, stuck in overflow... that means that he is out in the WET crap, most likely got sweaty, and boots got full of water while getting the skis jacked out of the slop.

Climb into a down bag with your clothing soaked, and you will end up with zero insulation... do the same with a good synthetic and you end up dry in the morning, and your clothing will dry out also, (the bag will need to be hung and dried when you get home).

Wiggy's were designed and are used for the US military... not as common as North Farce and such, but much more durable for aircraft/sled getting beat on in our world.

The Craig's list idea is a great one... it might save you big $ to buy used, even if it does not last quite as long...

But stay away from DOWN!

FYI

Sleeping bags at Wiggy's are 30% off right now. Pretty good bargain on an excellent bag!

Agree with most everyone, but the importance of a good bag are #1 on my list. I have carried a wiggys bag for many years and now own 2. For survival needs, they are hands down best in my experience. (and yes I have used it.) Get a GOOD -60 wiggys and a iridium phone.The rest of the survival pack is built off those 2 key items. Like George said, NO DOWN BAG, at least for survival needs.

OK, thanks for all the good info, trying to buy the one on C-list. Tried to get him to include mailing, he said no, I begged for a counter offer.
I looked @ the Wiggys, will do that if the Dark Star deal doesn't happen. (Can I get a synth. Wiggy?) I got the Wiggy hip boots.

They are all synthetic I think.

I have the Ultamatule... two bags, one 20 below for spring/fall, one is a 32 degree bag for summer. For dead of winter you slide the light one over the heavy one for the real cold (designed that way).

For survival, the bag should be rated well below temps you MIGHT be caught in. When wet, you need more insulation.

aktango58 said:

They are all synthetic I think.

I have the Ultamatule... two bags, one 20 below for spring/fall, one is a 32 degree bag for summer. For dead of winter you slide the light one over the heavy one for the real cold (designed that way).

For survival, the bag should be rated well below temps you MIGHT be caught in. When wet, you need more insulation.

Click to expand...

That's true if you're planning on laying out in the open. Not so true if you carry the minimal ingredients and knowledge to build a shelter. I spent a night in a one man shelter with OAT at -40 to 45 and with a - 20 sleeping bag, I was HOT.

Shelter is essential, in my opinion. You can sleep out in the frozen swamp if you like, but there's almost always stuff to make a shelter with and that monster sleeping bag still won't work it's wonders when the wind starts blowing, and it starts raining.

Shelter is key.

MTV

Sheesh?

--I can do math-am best at simple math tho;

Most likely to kill you--a plane crash

Likely to kill you--, your skills (or lack of), injuries resulting from the crash, not wearing a helmet, not filing a flight plan with somebody, the will to live and survive--"those who follow checklist's tend to die first in a survival situation" from Deep Survival--i just love that quote.

Least likely to kill you--the type of sleeping bag you buy

and this is how you should prioritize your flight, your adventure and your survival kit etc.

my opinion on the down in my last post was a suggestion and was labeled "food for thought"....few things are absolute, so be constructive and don't tell me it has to be this way or that way....again, re-read my quote above about checklist's--those who believe it has to be one way or the other without being able to deviate have proven themselves to die first in a survival situation....

and your very right, it's survival, not camping-so leave your book at home--getting 8hrs rest is the least of your issues and winter survival is; if you ain't working then your dying....

SB, you are very important to us. Are you off your meds, or what?

Mike, that must have been SOME shelter. Can you describe?

"I spent a night in a one man shelter with OAT at -40 to 45 and with a - 20 sleeping bag, I was HOT."
Sounds like that should be posted in the "Ladies love Taildragger Pilots". ...OH, I get what you mean...
(Refraining from any hot-air comment)

I agree there are ways to stay warm/dry/comfy/etc, if you have a bit of gear & a lot of creativity (or training). Seems "prudent" to me to be over-insulated with the ability to "chill" if need be. I've spent the night shivering (bike trip) and it was not my fav part of the trip, and I was not in condition the next day to be PIC of an airplane!

Would you describe the materials/design of your shelter? Was it anything out'a the ordinary??
I always carry a couple tarps, couple reflective "emerg" blankets, etc, & the forest is always full of pine boughs.

schnell49 said:

Most likely to kill you--a plane crash

Likely to kill you--, your skills (or lack of), injuries resulting from the crash, not wearing a helmet, not filing a flight plan with somebody, the will to live and survive--"those who follow checklist's tend to die first in a survival situation" from Deep Survival--i just love that quote.

Least likely to kill you--the type of sleeping bag you buy
.

Click to expand...

Schnell,

I am sorry to have gotten your dander up. I have an advantage of knowing what Nimpo Logan will be doing when wanting to have survival gear... sometimes it will be needing a place to call home when Mary gets mad

Other times it is for in his plane that almost NEVER sees wheels. he flies floats and skis. So the potential for his gear to be soaked is very high.;-)

Now back to your ways to die, I have to disagree. Most people do not die in a crash, they die from hypothermia or injuries sustained from the crash...

Let us not get into an experience, checklist life death sort of thing. I have been in plenty of places that should have killed me, and at times I have had my friends shake their heads because what I considered an 'unscheduled, undesired camp trip' they called a life threatening situation. Been there done it!

The sleeping bag can be one of the first lines of defense for shelters... you can burrow into the snow, or just lay it out and go to sleep if you have a good pad underneath. Yes, wind and rain may make it tough, but it is easier to have a sleeping bag that is good and no tent, than a great tent and no bag... (been there also:???: and it was snowing:sad

Go through any rescue/survival training, and they will say time and again, your mental preparedness is the key to survival. The more you stack the deck on your side, having equipment that will be useful after you drop it into the water, it falls through the trees and beats around for three months in the back of the plane is a great start...

Weight is important, but light sleeping bags are not nearly as tough and water friendly in my experience.

I now carry two stoves in the plane most times also!

I am not looking for a fight either, but I must side with George on this also. IF you are to EVER wind up in a life and death situation, if able I would sure want you to make the very first thing you do if your my buddy and my life is in your hands is to take your iridium sat phone (works anyplace on earth, tested tried and true) and go ahead and burn some airtime minutes to S & R. That is if able to call. Next would be to get warm and stay warm. Hypothermia is a very dangerous situation to battle and a down bag in my opinion will not keep you warm when wet. Light? yes they are but in a survival situation your probably not going to be worried about putting miles on with a pack so whats the weight really worth.
Im not knocking anything the mountaineer folks come out with, I know its always on the cutting edge of innovation for what it was designed to do. And that is why in my survival pack I carry survival items to keep myself and those with me alive, and I know how to use what I have.
I am not a salesman for Iridium nor a salesman for Wiggys, but those are the 2 most important things in my survival gear.

Schnell,

Thanks for the sleeping bag review. Nice to have your experience level on this forum. Did Leif mention Marcus Baker?

Jerry

hey jerry, he didn't--did he get hypothermia due to a leaky pee bottle that leaked in his down sleeping bag--happened to me the day before we skied up Mt. Torbert!!! do tell!! we should do a mid march trip up there-i've got some time off and WANT to fly-i hear you've been skiing getting that knee in shape....

Yea I heard the same thing:lol:. But before the leaky bottle thing happened - Mid March is what he was saying. I know I can cook as a minimum and would not mind seeing how far I can make it. Maybe at least to the base. Not sure how close you can get with a cub or the route up etc but I would go for the workout and learning the way up. Might take a photo and video or two.


Jerry

The best survival gear I have is a 406 ELT, Spidertracks equipment, a sat phone, and Alaska's S&R professionals who are equipped and trained to help guys like me when we get ourselves into trouble. In fact the most important survival tool is the ANG so I equip myself and my plane to help them help me. The fancy gear packed in the back is most likely to get deployed for a voluntary sit down in bad weather and my gear choices reflect that. There's survival stuff in there and some comfort stuff, too. Being inconvenienced in miserable weather does not constitute an emergency to me. As long as I'm able to take care of myself that's precisely what I'll do. My gear is to help me help myself. It's that simple.

A -20 Wiggy bag turns into a -40 bag by adding a bivy over it. Guess what? Wing covers and insulated engine blankets can extend your bag's effectiveness in the cold, too. The key to a good survival bag is not waiting until you're hypothermic to get into it.

To cub flyer , schnell, SB, and all, I realize my last post sounds a little bitchy and know it all. Not my intention. I respect your opinion and experience on all this matter has to offer. I do stand by my post and will not edit it or delete it but figured I better make thing straight. I would love to see what else you guys have to offer from the mountaineering side of things. Greg

The best survival gear is the attitude and ability to take care of yourself and passengers in the conditions that you find yourself in.

During my little affair last spring the Troopers lowered a survival bag to me that contained some chemical heaters. They were called "Instant Summer" or something like that and were self contained where you popped a bag of liquid inside a main sealed bag containing a white powder. The heat came on very quick and was really hot. There were written warnings not to put next to exposed flesh because of heat temps in excess of 180 degrees. These things were just awesome. I have tried to find them via google without any success. Admittedly my memories are a bit obscure so I'm not sure what exactly was written on the bag. Anyone know what these are and how to get them?

Jerry

Endothermic chemical reaction---cold----ie ice packs

Exothermic chemical reaction-----hot-----hot packs..

When I was an RN we had hot packs on th floor. I would call a hospital/medical/ physical therapy practice and ask where they get theirs.

I carry a 1000 watt gas generator, laptop and dozen of my favorite DVD's. Need to be entertained until help arrives.

Here's a diagram illustrating the construction of a simple one man shelter. Of course, this takes a bit of natural materials, but there are ways to innovate in treeless country, for example. A shelter like this can be constructed in a very short time, and is nice and cozy in even the coldest temperatures. This is the type shelter we were taught to construct at USAF Arctic Survival Training.



MTV

Thanks Mike, that looks simple/effective. A candle/can would be like a furnace in there.
Just plugged "winter survival" into Google & WOW, you could spend hours reading... think I will.
Wiggy's bag on the way! I believe George (& some others) are right.

I buy the best for survival gear, often the most expensive and lots of it with the notion that with my luck I'll never get a chance to use it. Worked so far.

To the topic of extending the temp range of a sleeping bag, here are a couple of options. Both would be really handy when dealing with an injured person. Or an injured self.

I still carry two of these over bags in my summer gear pack. These are a great value for the price and vacuum pack into a small package.
http://ultimategear.stores.yahoo.net/therprotaid.html

I have a couple of these for spike camping and they've replaced my tent in the winter gear bag. I also carry a sil tarp and trekking poles so making a shelter is simple. A very versatile combination. Ounce for ounce and for the space it takes, I'm not sure a sil tarp isn't the best piece of equipment I own.
http://www.hilleberg.com/home/products/bivanorak/bivanorak.php

Another survival mantra? Never wear cotton for outdoor winter activities. Cold is hard enough to manage. Cold and wet is a killer.

The survival item I need to address most is food. Nature Valley bars aren't good enough. I've been thinking of adding peanut butter and Spam to my pack. Easy to eat when it's cold. I have lots of Gu packs in my bag but I don't enjoy those.

I always carry some ready to eat items like a can of spam, in addition to stuff that requires some prep. I also keep a gallon ziplock bag (for those personal moments when you do not want to venture out) and some handwarmers inside my Wiggys bag(s) packed in a Gortex bivy sack, all ready to go, just unfold and jump in. Make sure your bag is large enough to climb into fully clothed (boots and all)

Another good thing is to put velcro closures along the sipper line of your bag, cause zippers have a way of not working well with frozen hands in the dark when the wind is blowing.