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Survival gear

I started out thinking I wanted a surveyor's vest, bright orange with lots of pockets. The good ones are expensive, and are too long for sitting in a small airplane. After broadening my search, I ended up with the Stearns vest that champ and scout have; it is really pretty trim and compact for what it is, but the pockets are what makes it work. Champ and scout put more stuff in theirs than I do (good stuff too, thanks for the ideas).

Most good sporting goods stores seem to have them, or online west marine or similar will have them.
 
The stearns vests are available from Cabela's- I think about $130. I just weighed mine, with all the previously mentioned survival items in the pockets- weighs in at 4 pounds 12 oz. I don't know where I got the 12 pound figure from. Stewart has a point about comfort. Mine really isn't uncomfortable- just a little clammy when hot out. I'm just in the mind set that it is on at all times when I'm in the plane, just like the belts. And since I spend most of my time flying floats, I feel you need to have the vest on to do you any good should you flip in the water- cause you'll never have time to dig the vest out of the back seat. It has a rip cord to pull to inflate once out of the plane, and a manual blow up valve.
 
For everyone who has questions on what to put in the vest/survival kit and where to purchase the stuff,visit:preparedpilot.com & equippedtosurvive .com Everything you ever wanted to know is on these two sites.You should have some standard stuff and what may be particular to your area or type of flying.Happy shopping....Herman.
 
So, Stewart, apparently, fishing is more enjoyable than flying, eh? Otherwise, why would a vest be worn for fishing and not for flying?

Just poking at ya, man..... :lol:

I agree that it is really easy to get a vest packed to the gills with every gadget known to man, at which point it becomes punishment to wear it.

Better idea is all things in moderation. Figure out what is ABSOLUTELY essential, put that in a vest and/or pockets, the rest goes in the back.

The problem with survival packs is that I'm betting you may not grab it if you have an accident. If then the plane sinks or burns......

I lost a friend on Kodiak who had a portable ELT in his jacket pocket, hung on the seat back of a 206 amphib. When they went over in the water, they both got out (a trial in itself in a stock 206) but he didn't get the jacket or the ELT out, even though it was right THERE.

They both died of hypothermia, sitting on the bottoms of the floats.

Tie it to you, put it in your pockets, whatever, but you're better than me if you think you can grab a bag off the seat back as you get out of something that's on fire.

Maybe, but I'd hate to bet on it.

MTV

MTV
 
As was quoted by Ray Tremblay in the beginning of this post, if it ain't on your body its not survival gear. For me, I have decided that if it is a true emergency, I should be extracated in 12-48 hours at the most, with the PLB and the satphone, so items for long term survival/comfort go in the back of the plane, not in the vest. It's hard to imagine in most areas that I travel that weather would prevent emergency crews from reaching me for more than a couple of days. So basically, I figure if I can deal with any wounds and bleeding, and stay warm and dry, purify a little water to drink with the tablets inside the ziploc bags, I can go a couple of days without the other camping gear. Obviously, severe medical situations could shorten the survival time, but its not practical to carry a big time first aid kit in the vest. I have one of those in the plane if it doesn't sink or burn. I think the little packets of CELOX I carry in the vest could be worth their weight in platinum in the case of severe bleeding. These are the same packets carried by combat troops, and are available from SAM Medical Products.
 
Tim said:
I've never worn a vest, but after reading all this I think I should. Where do I look for that vest you guys are talking about?

Tim

I see the guys have chimed in on Cabela's as a source for the Stearns vest (which is really nice). LL Bean sells some very nice mesh fishing vests that are durable and excellent for summer flying.

I use an old SRU-21 survival vest that has gobs of room stuff. It's pretty comfortable, too, as it is mostly mesh. They're always for sale on e bay.

My PLB fits right in one of the pockets and I carry many of the things described in this and prior posts.

After reading some of the current entries I think I'll locate some Celox to augment the medical stuff in my vest.
 
Maintain your aircraft like your life depends on it.
It's your best bet for survival.

Brad
 
Survival Kits

I didn't notice anyone using a commercial survival kit (because we're all a bunch of independent characters?), so here's a book with some ideas that we all could use:

BUILD THE PERFECT SURVIVAL KIT BOOK
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance
Here’s everything you need to know to build a custom survival kit for adventure, sport, travel or disaster emergencies—from a pocket-sized mini kit to a fully loaded pack for extended durations. McCann has selected and tested hundreds of components, containers and packing techniques to present the best of the best in this comprehensive 15-chapter volume and you will recognize many of these items from the pages of your BQM catalog. Loaded with photos, tips, component lists, sources, and anecdotes, it makes great reading, too!

Chapters Include:
• The Basics of Personal Survival Kits
• Fire & Light
• Signaling
• Navigation
• Water & Food
• Shelter & Protection
• Knives & Tools
• Multi-purpose Components
• Containers
• Vehicle Kits
• List of Suppliers
• Survival Training and Reading Lists
• Written by John McCann
• Softcover
• 192 pages
• Printed in USA.

Shipping Weight: 0.62 lb / 0.28 kg



Description - Item No. - Our Price
BUILD THE PERFECT SURVIVAL KIT - PD1500 $12.99


You can find it here: http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/t...x=survival book&backto=/agcatalog/results.tam
 
Vacuum packing some of the stuff in your back pack, damn that's so simple why didn't I think of it, thanks Stewart for the brain wake up.

Dennis
 
Here is a list of survival gear that was really useful this past summer in the wrangells.

First and foremost, the iridium sat phone was priceless in our situation. We had a spot and a 406 elt for backup.

In order to stay warm I had a backpack full of dry clothes. it was really nice to be dry...

Then we had a tent, sleeping bag, and a lot of food. Enough to stay full for a couple days.

We had a gun for protection of course.

Last, we had a couple if good friends willing to come get us. Very nice to sleep in a warm bed the same night.

am I missing anything?
 
The only 2 things I think you might be missing are: Do you have a crotch strap or do you simply have a lap belt with shoulder harnesses? Second item is a helmet.

Having just survived a engine failure on take off at 200 feet off the end of Ryan field in MT just 6 weeks ago I can tell you that if my wife and I would have had crotch straps and helmets on we would have gotten away with just minor injuries. Instead we both have several badly compressed and fractured vertebrae, broken ribs, stitches in our heads. The lap belt/shoulder harness combo is great, but I realize now it is only half of the solution. Without a crotch strap your body can only go one direction during the deceleration process and that is down and out the bottom. This also vastly increases your chances of broken legs and or ankles. Your now bent nearly double, the lap belt has moved up on your torso, and the final portion of the impact breaks your ribs off your sternum. Broken ribs are no fun, and I am sure those of you who have experienced broken ribs can attest to the terror a simple sneeze or cough can bring. In the beginning the back pain was nothing compared to the pain and discomfort of the broken ribs. Unless you can sleep hanging from your heels like a bat you can forget getting much sleep, as there simply is no position in bed which will allow you to be comfortable enough to get any rest.

We are now both in upper body braces, ribs are pretty much healed, stitches are out, the back pain is low but constant. We are looking at 8 months to a year of recovery time with a slim chance of ever being 100% again. I too spent many hours and hundreds of dollars building my survival kit, vest ect., never giving much thought at all to the very real possibility that I in fact might not be able to get out of the aircraft on my own steam. Luckily for us there was no fire and thanks to all the great RAF folks who came to our rescue, we were quickly out of the aircraft and safely on our way to Kalispell Regional Hospital. Had there been a fire or we would have been alone at a remote strip the outcome would have been very different I am sure.

On a brighter note we are healing and with every day we are stronger, N397JL took good care of us but is a mess, we have a set of spare wings and have started the search for the other pieces to rebuild her, hopefully we will be back in the air by spring. This year was our first year at Johnson Creek, we met and made many new friends there, hopefully we will be back in 2012.

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_17227ace-a12c-11e0-9054-001cc4c03286.html

Tear down by NTSB is yet to happen so we still don't know what caused the complete loss of power.

Best from Omak,
Doug and Kathleen Sapp
 
What you carry for survival tends to be a very individual thing. There are a lot of good books out there on the subject, and they can give you some ideas.

But, the best way to learn what's really important, or essential, is to go out into the woods with your gear and try it out. Take that flint and steel out and see how easy it is to start a fire with it. Now try it with one hand tied behind your back, to simulate a broken arm.....then go buy a Blastmatch. Same for folding knives. Doug Ritter sells some really good folding knives. I carry one at all times, and one criteria again is that you can operate them with one hand.

Randy asked about "real" parachute cord. Remember, the things we're going to use parachute cord for in a survival situation generally don't require a huge breaking strength. Pretty much any of the stuff sold in stores will do the majority of what we'll need it for.

Starting a fire, getting water, either from lakes/river or melting snow, shelter and signals are essential. It doesn't take a big kit to stay alive in the woods for a long time. "

It DOES take some knowledge, and the confidence that the stuff you carry actually works, and you know how to make it work.df

The most powerful tool in your survival kit is your brain.

MTV
 
The only 2 things I think you might be missing are: Do you have a crotch strap or do you simply have a lap belt with shoulder harnesses? Second item is a helmet.

Having just survived a engine failure on take off at 200 feet off the end of Ryan field in MT just 6 weeks ago I can tell you that if my wife and I would have had crotch straps and helmets on we would have gotten away with just minor injuries. Instead we both have several badly compressed and fractured vertebrae, broken ribs, stitches in our heads. The lap belt/shoulder harness combo is great, but I realize now it is only half of the solution. Without a crotch strap your body can only go one direction during the deceleration process and that is down and out the bottom. This also vastly increases your chances of broken legs and or ankles. Your now bent nearly double, the lap belt has moved up on your torso, and the final portion of the impact breaks your ribs off your sternum. Broken ribs are no fun, and I am sure those of you who have experienced broken ribs can attest to the terror a simple sneeze or cough can bring. In the beginning the back pain was nothing compared to the pain and discomfort of the broken ribs. Unless you can sleep hanging from your heels like a bat you can forget getting much sleep, as there simply is no position in bed which will allow you to be comfortable enough to get any rest.

We are now both in upper body braces, ribs are pretty much healed, stitches are out, the back pain is low but constant. We are looking at 8 months to a year of recovery time with a slim chance of ever being 100% again. I too spent many hours and hundreds of dollars building my survival kit, vest ect., never giving much thought at all to the very real possibility that I in fact might not be able to get out of the aircraft on my own steam. Luckily for us there was no fire and thanks to all the great RAF folks who came to our rescue, we were quickly out of the aircraft and safely on our way to Kalispell Regional Hospital. Had there been a fire or we would have been alone at a remote strip the outcome would have been very different I am sure.

On a brighter note we are healing and with every day we are stronger, N397JL took good care of us but is a mess, we have a set of spare wings and have started the search for the other pieces to rebuild her, hopefully we will be back in the air by spring. This year was our first year at Johnson Creek, we met and made many new friends there, hopefully we will be back in 2012.

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_17227ace-a12c-11e0-9054-001cc4c03286.html

Tear down by NTSB is yet to happen so we still don't know what caused the complete loss of power.

Best from Omak,
Doug and Kathleen Sapp

Wow, sorry to hear of your accident Doug. I hope you and Kathleen have a swift recovery and to see you at JC next year.
windy
 
Doug,

Thank you for the comments. It was nice meeting you and Kathleen at JC, I was very sorry to hear about your accident.

Mike is correct about practicing with your gear. When teaching survival in our Hunter Ed classes I like to tell students that if your gear can not width stand being pitched into the tub, filled with water and stomped on numerous times, the odds of it being of use when you need it are slim...

A roll of heavy duty aluminum foil will take place of lots of the items you mention. You can use it to cook, make a cup, signal and many other uses... fold some up and put it in your vest.

Another good item is a book to read. idle minds can panic. Patients while help finds you is very important.

It is interesting reading back and seeing items listed just three years ago, and what is available today. I will give up any pistol or rifle for my warn when wet sleeping bag. The firepower is nice, but down the list..

A good flight plan will usually have a search out after you in hours, and found within a day, unless you leave your 'box', or are scud running...

Think about what you are asking search crews to deal with if you go down on that day of marginal weather... they will risk their life if you did something totally stupid.

Just things to think about.
 
Keep in mind this is the minimum I would want to have in a survival vest. My logic is that there are really only four likely out comes to a crash/forced landing.
1) You die in a fiery plane crash
2) You are badly busted up with life threatening injuries
3) The event isn’t much more than a rough landing and you walk away with nothing more than a few bumps and burses
4) Combine ditching in the water to any of the above with.
So in my mind if we boil it down to the utmost minimum amount of gear to have in a vest then we have in order of importance:
1) PLB and or VHF radio (water proofed) to summon help.
2) Water proof hand warmers and space/survival blanket. With these two items hopefully you can stave off hypothermia long enough to get help or build a fire. Especially if you are cold and wet from a water landing.
3) Water proof fire making items, flint and or matches along with some tinder (I carry those solid fuel tablets but not sure if you can still find them).
4) Something to make shelter with. I like the idea of a couple of extra large heavy duty industrial/construction trash bags like you can get at home depot. Get the orange ones like you see along the hi-way and you can use them as a tent or as signal panels. Stuff some leaves, grass or pine needles in one and you have a sleeping bag. Cut a hole in the end and presto, instant poncho. Very useful, light weight and compact.
5) A length of good cord.
6) A good knife and small first aid kit.
7) Water purification tabs and maybe some sort of small canteen type cup.
Should be able to pack all of this small enough to carry is a small fanny pack. Just put it on before getting in and it’s a done deal. No hot sweaty vest to wear. Although an inflatable PFD would be nice for those water landings, especially if you can swim as well as I do (only slightly better than a cinder block).
 
Mike V. years ago on a similar thread you made a comment that has stuck with me and I've used, to refresh your memory you said in an accident resulting in fire or sinking (in the unlikely event of a float plane going down in a lake) you stated that your survival gear is what you have on your person, everything else in your airplane is camping equipment. I carry enough 'survival' gear to live on for two months when I go north but after this excellent thread and at the urging of my Alaska buddy I'm thinking a vest with bare minimum essentials is going to be first on my list. Thanks to you guys that do more than sit in your computer rooms wishing you could fly the wilds of the world for your insightful contributions. Us wantabees can learn much from your experience's.....
 
Trash bag survival condo:
Large HD trash bag (best if orange or yellow) with draw strings, small candle and a can of tuna. Find the best sheltered place you can, eat the tuna, roll the sides of the bag down, place the can in the bottom of the bag, put candle in can, light it. Put one foot on each side of the can and pull the bag up around your neck, tighten the draw strings. Works great, is light weight, compact, and the bag has multiple uses such as shelter, signal, fire starter just to name a few. I used this @ -16F with wind and snow when I got caught out while elk hunting, it was a very long night, but it could have been a lot worse. I carry 3 sets in each of my aircraft. also, take your hand gun with you because once trussed up inside the bag with the scent of hot tuna wafting through the woods the need for it, real or imagined will cross your mind.
 
Mike V. years ago on a similar thread you made a comment that has stuck with me and I've used, to refresh your memory you said in an accident resulting in fire or sinking (in the unlikely event of a float plane going down in a lake) you stated that your survival gear is what you have on your person, everything else in your airplane is camping equipment. I carry enough 'survival' gear to live on for two months when I go north but after this excellent thread and at the urging of my Alaska buddy I'm thinking a vest with bare minimum essentials is going to be first on my list. Thanks to you guys that do more than sit in your computer rooms wishing you could fly the wilds of the world for your insightful contributions. Us wantabees can learn much from your experience's.....

Dennis,

I borrowed that comment from Ray Tremblay, who put on a lot of survival talks, and had the experience to be credible.

It's not that difficult to make a shelter, and shelter is essential in most survival situations. If you're stranded on a beach on a desert island, shelter may not be real high on your list....but.

Again from the guys at Cool School: Carry water purification tablets or some means to purify water, BUT...YOU MUST DRINK WATER!! If you don't have means to purify water, drink the water anyway. Remember, pretty much all the bugs and uglies that you can catch from drinking unpurified water take a few days to a week or so to kick in really good. IF you've done the rest of your flight planning (as in PLB/SPOT/ELT/Flight plan, etc) properly, you probably won't be out there in the woods long enough to worry about giardia, etc. And, all those things can be fixed once you get back to civilization. Run to the local doc and tell them you been drinking swamp water. They'll know what to give you.

The problem the survival experts point out with purification tablets is that they make the water taste pretty awful. Try a bit of it sometime. Then, drink a pint of the stuff. The rub is you MUST drink water, and if it tastes awful, you'll be less likely to drink it.

Dehydration is one of the biggest issues one must deal with in a survival situation, whether it's hot, cold or in between.

MTV
 
don't agree with carrying a book--a true survival situation one will be busy doing something or to bothered by pain to read Louis Lamour--at least i wouldn't carry it in my plane 24/7 and agree with whoever earlier said; it's what's between your ears---and mainly i think it's how capable one is with what you are carrying--leave the fluff at home

--3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food---and leave your water purifiers at home---i have traveled 1000's of miles on foot, off trail in this state and haven't used one in 15 years (prior to gaining experience)--if you must; take iodine, its light but slow to take affect in cold water and tastes horrible--better yet, and it's what i use to purify my water--a small eye dropper container of non-scented bleach (clorox)--and i only use it if the water is still (and sometimes still wont use any) or there are 30,000 caribou upstream of me, one drop for roughly 20 Oz's-that's the size of my water bottle i use for xc trips/hunts-and i never carry more than that on my back--actually it's a triathlon bottle bungeed to my shoulder pack strap with camelbak tubing sticking out a couple inches with a nipple on the end (i've seen a 16oz gatorade bottle, hole drilled thru cap- used and set up the same as mine for a 14 day 300 mile traverse of the brooks range work just fine)--no matter where i have traveled in this state, even packrafting next to a beaver moving down the charley river: scoop, drop of bleach if needed, shake water, drink instantly and keep moving (actually in this instance, i didn't even purify--charley river moves so fast..)--and if needed, use your headnet to filter out the large debris ---and glacier water is just fine to drink without filtering or worrying about the silt... and i still rarely use it while traveling--say a point A-B trip of 150 miles that takes me 2-4 days--less than 10 times i would put a drop in a 20oz water bottle--and maybe only 1-2 of those times i feel i MIGHT really need it--the other times i use it just because i am carrying the 50 drop container with me--with that i carry nothing in my plane and would feel confident in doing a wilderness trip without any purification and know of people in this state that carry no means of purification on their wilderness trips...

tents; check out the black diamond tent; http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/mountain/shelters/hilight-tent
it packs up just a bit smaller or close to the width of a one gallon paint can and just a hair longer--awesome tent for hunting, survival, hiking etc--i have older model called lite house--and it's seen some pretty heavy use and the large door makes for good air flow... a shelter for me in AK would be key for a survival situation--leave the garbage bags/tarps at home--this will give you peace of mind over any book or a tarp for a shelter--i.e. mosquitos!! wind, rain, snow.....and it creates a warmer environment that is stable, small, light and something you will use on many trips. (seems many crash in inclement weather)

about 1 year ago i read a great book on survival called: Deep Survival: Who lives, who dies and why? one line i remember from the book that struck me due to my job in the military and how the military loves checklist's was something along the lines: people that follow checklist's tend to die more often in a survival situation than those that don't--- i.e.-they don't know how to think outside the box--i found that really interesting in my line of work since so much of it is outside the box. interesting and quick read

in the end we all have opinions and live in different regions--obviously all my opinion--but some way to drink water, a bit of food, shelter, and up here a means of being warm; sleeping bag along with engine cover in the winter etc, knowledge of the skills needed and if you must move overland than light is right and things hopefully will go well...--with that, i've traveled 200 miles with 26 pounds on my back to include; packraft/paddle, sat phone, clothing and food, trioxane fire starter and a couple other small things--that's it--no s-bag, no tent, no stove---it's amazing how little i ate, probably 5hrs of sleep for 4.5 days---many trips like this have proven to me you just don't need much for a few/several days--especially if you are sitting around and not moving.

im not gloating or boasting just trying to inform, help and explain a couple of things of why i do and don't (rescue/assisting others is my job and playing in this state is my hobby) so keep it simple and light so you can quickly scoop up some water, get back into your tent and out of the sideways rain, lie down in your sleeping bag and comfortably read your book while you wait.....
 
Two things ive found handy. The British SAS survival manual. Its full of great tips, hints, and how to. Good stuff. My brother in law carries a quick ignition propane torch. Not practical if you have to get out fast, but when you need a fire quickly it beats them all....
 
Dennis,
I just purchased the new ResQlink PLB by ACR. I was going to replace the battery in my 5 year old Aquafix also from ACR. For $100 more I decided on the newest much smaller model with an updated GPS system. Best price I found was $275 from Puget Sound Inflatables, www.life-raft.com/9858/PLB
 
Lessons I learned from a recent crash (not my own): 1) turn off the ELT when aircraft arrive overhead so you can hear their radio transmissions, 2) switch to a new frequency so you don't clog up the area's CTAF, 3) report the accident via sat phone, as you have no idea when the next plane will be in range, your radios may not be working, and your ELT/spider tracks/spot may be inop, 4) if you're the one on the ground, wear international orange clothing, as it makes it much easier to determine if you are up and moving, conked out beside your plane, or are running from a bear, 5) if it's summer and you are in bear country you should be armed, 6) stay with the wreckage if possible.
 
Anchorage area guys FYI. Learn to Return has aviation survival training sessions scheduled for mid November, early December, and the second week of January. All classes are mid week, not on weekends. Call LTR for dates and reservations.

http://www.survivaltraining.com/pdf/avlw.pdf

SB
 
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There is no such thing as a warm coat or a warm sleeping bag. Laying on the ground at -30 below F they are -30 below inside and out....
They're only insulating layers, you create the heat that warms them up.

Good point. I can generate a lil bit of heat, not as much as I used to tho. Have been looking at sub-zero sleep bags (Canuck degrees) and they are mega-bucks. Can someone recommend a good insulating bag that is not several hundred bucks?
Thanks (I hope) :)
 
Nimpo,

Nope, this is one item that you need to pony up.

If you were willing to spend the $ on a Bart engine, you should be willing to spend the $ on a quality sleeping bag that will keep you warm when you are hurt, wet, and in need of something to go right.

Wiggy's is a great product. It does not break down when packed tight all winter, and still insulates when wet. Carry it in the winter, use a less expensive one in summer if you must.

When you wake up in the morning with the outside of your bag all frosted over, but you are still warm and your clothing is dry, (dried out over night transffering the moisture out of the bag), the cost of your bag is worth every penny.

Maybe you need to buy a little less animal feed?;-) Use the savings on your bag:lol:
 
for what temps? (it matters if money vs weight vs type (synthetic vs down))

do you care if it's synthetic or down?

I would only buy the name brands--meaning that i would only use one from a company where actual people use them in the mountaineering world (the north face, western mountaineering--awesome bags, mtn hardware etc...)

but if money matters then look at REI or MEC for a similar temp you want--they should cost you less--i didn't really see any real cold ones made by MEC---but I would NEVER take an REI type sleeping bag on Denali--but i have one that i do carry for survival at times in the plane--just not as durable IMHO--while several praise feathered friends and a couple other companies i rarely if ever see people carry them on Denali--IMHO, they are more for snow machines, when the world ends etc---not conducive if you have to carry it or are bulk limited...

Considered by many to be the most bang for the buck has been the Dark Star by North Face--it's synthetic, a bit heavy but that's synthetic--http://www.thenorthface.com/catalog/sc-gear/equipment-sleeping-bags.html

a decent quality bag at a decent temp rating will cost you around $300min--

food for thought--i stopped using the Dark Star and switched to the -20 Puma bag by western mountaineering--it is a down bag--i found the -40 bag i was sleeping with little clothes on and yet i could switch to the Puma that weighs less and is less bulky and sleep in some of my clothes i was carrying....using an object for more than one thing-novel idea....

But i have never flown with a bag any colder than a zero rated for survival......

FYI, MEC sells yellow "foamy" sleeping pads-Zotefoams---they are awesome and super dense--better than any quality i believe in the US....it's the only sleeping pad i take on Denali--most people take two to sleep on and one of those are normally a thermal rest type....this insulating layer is just as important as the bag you buy-if not more...

If plan on just using it for the plane--buy one used on craigslist--starving climbers are constantly selling/upgrading their stuff-or check your local outdoor store cork board...http://anchorage.craigslist.org/spo/2833684873.html

I just did a 5 sec search on c-list for "sleeping bags"--third one down was a dark star--$160 never used-buy that, your problems solved...
 
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