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Thread: Clipped wing Cub

  1. #1

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    Clipped wing Cub

    Has anybody every flew a CWC? I have never seen one, what do they fly like? Has anyone seen one perform at a airshow? and what kind of show do they put on?

  2. #2

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    I flew a clipped wing PA-11 and it was a real dog in the takeoff department. It just wouldn't get off the ground like a PA-11 without the clipped wings. Otherwise it flew OK.

  3. #3
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    My dad flew one and it didnt take off and climb very good, it was a hot summer day, 2 people, he said that it took forever to get to a thousand feet...

    Tom

  4. #4
    BlackFly's Avatar
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    I own a Pitts, C-180, Super cub and a 1946 CWC (j-3) with a c-85 engine.
    The CWC is an incredible airplane and I can't figure out why they didn't build them all that way! It climbs just fine. Rolls and Loops very well. Spins like a top and slips are the most fun of any plane I have ever flown.
    You have to land it faster but it is incredibly responsive. Cruise is about 90 to 95 mph.

    The super cub is the king of stol, but the CWC is the master in the air!

  5. #5

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    Clipped Cub

    I owned a Clipped Wing Cub for several years. When I bought it, it had a A-65, and was a dog in the takeoff department. After I installed a C-90 with a Aeromatic prop, boy did its performance change. I could takeoff in 50', at 95 degrees with all seats filled. It climbed as well as my 180hp Smith Kit. Speed: It would cruise all day at 115mph. How did it perform: The ailerons were crisp and light, and would roll in a flash. That little plane was one of the two best handling planes that I have ever flown.
    The other plane is a U-21.
    My advice is: If you have a chance to buy one, BUY IT, as long as it isn't still equipped with the old A-65. Then, add a Aeromatic prop- it makes a huge difference, and is light.

    Mike

  6. #6
    acroeric's Avatar
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    If you get one stick with the small continentals. . . . I had one with a Lycoming and while it flew ok it was way too heavy.

  7. #7
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    Re: Clipped Cub

    [quote="CptKelly" The ailerons were crisp and light, and would roll in a flash. That little plane was one of the two best handling planes that I have ever flown.[/quote]

    I find the J-3 or PA-18 control harmony so much better than any other airplanes of the era up to and including the American Champion line.

    Will a C-85/90 CWC still do basic inside acro with 2 on board? I have heard it was better suited as a single-seater for any aerobatics.

    Mike-

  8. #8
    Clyde and Susan's Avatar
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    Back in the early 1960's I had access to a CWC (33M) with an 85 HP continental in it at RDU. I did snap rolls, barrel rolls, loops, hammer heads, split S's, Cuban 8's, spins, and a lot of things that didn't have names. That was one of the most fun airplanes I've ever flown except maybe the Ryan STA. You will love it if you get one. It does need the bigger engine, though. ...Clyde

  9. #9
    Bushwhacker Air's Avatar
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    I owned a '46 J3 Reed CWC for 2 years - it was my favorite airplane I've flown! It was equipped with a C-85 - decent take-off and climb solo, a little sluggish 2-up.

    I did my aerobatic trailing in it - my instructor was just over 6' tall, and had to be shoe-horned into the front seat, but that's the way he wanted it because he said he wanted me to learn how to do the acro from the rear, where I would be flying it. It was capable of all Sportsman Class maneuvers.

    On landings, without power, it was a brick!! Sans an engine out condition, I really liked it - it didn't matter what speed you came in over the fence, when you chopped the throttle, it was coming down! Extended wheel landings were a trip and always impressed the crowds. (My 20 seconds of fame!)

    I am building a prototype LSA right now, using the PA-18 fuse and a clipped wing. It should will have a decent empty weight on par with the other LSA offerings by using generous amounts of weight saving materials. She'll be flying maybe by Sun-N-Fun or OSH for sure.
    Chris Hatin
    Bushwhacker Aircraft Company, LLC
    www.bushwhackerair.com
    Properly trained, a man can be a dogs best friend...

  10. #10
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I've flown them with C-85 up to an O-320. Awesome airplane. More fun than you ought to have. You might see one in production at OSH.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

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    3689A,

    I've owned, crashed, rebuild and won at OSH in a Clipped Cub. I do NOt recommend it for a hard areobatic airplane, but it is a fun airplane if it has enough power.

    I highly recommend reading the articles on this site:

    http://home.xcountry.tv/~dann/

    John Scott
    While I respect the folks that use Cubs to make a living, my uses are for recreation and leisure - AND I'M NOT ASHAMED!!!

  12. #12

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    cwc

    i owned one for 10 years . i took it to osh in '99' and won a prize. if you seen it you would never forget it . it had a red sunburst on top of the wings and red checker board under the wings. buy far was the nicest all around cub i ever owned. i had 0-200 on the front when i first restored it but later put a c-90 on it. the difference between the two engines was like night and day. the c-90 is THE small cub engine.

  13. #13
    jnorris's Avatar
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    Re: cwc

    Quote Originally Posted by marc krier
    i owned one for 10 years . i took it to osh in '99' and won a prize. if you seen it you would never forget it . it had a red sunburst on top of the wings and red checker board under the wings.
    Hi Marc,

    It still looks just as great as when you first brought it to Oshkosh. It lives at OSH now, and I get to fly it every once in a while. In fact, I'm teaching one of the owner's wife how to fly in it (or at least I was until it got so damned cold around here - we'll continue in the spring).

    I can verify Marc's comments about how great the Cub flies, and that the 90 Continental is THE engine for a Cub. It's a really sweet bird!!
    Joe


  14. #14

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    Will a Clip Wing Cub meet the stall speed requirement for ELSA?

  15. #15
    Bushwhacker Air's Avatar
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    Stall shouldn't be more than 42-44 mph at gross, well below the 51mph required. The use of some VG's should bring it down to 39-40 or so - we'll see when it's flying. The wing will be slightly different from the Reed Clipped Wing Conversion most of us have flown, which stalled in the 38 range at 1100lbs gross if I remember correctly. Top Speed will be better than its full wing counterparts, too.
    Chris Hatin
    Bushwhacker Aircraft Company, LLC
    www.bushwhackerair.com
    Properly trained, a man can be a dogs best friend...

  16. #16

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    One of my buddies flys a clipwing J3 with an 85/O-200 stroker (dynos 97 hp). It flies great, but the longwing O-200 J3 that I fly outclimbs it and outruns it by a significant amount. Like Jerry Burr, it has been my experience that the O-200 when properly propped, will blow a 90 away.
    JimC

  17. #17
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Jim, Did ya'll ever swap props between Ed's Clipped Wing and your J3?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  18. #18
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC
    One of my buddies flys a clipwing J3 with an 85/O-200 stroker (dynos 97 hp). It flies great, but the longwing O-200 J3 that I fly outclimbs it and outruns it by a significant amount. Like Jerry Burr, it has been my experience that the O-200 when properly propped, will blow a 90 away.
    JimC
    The problem is there is often a difference between "properly propped" to "legally propped"

    Tim
    Piper J-5A C-90 N40877
    J-5 Project Pictures

  19. #19

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    Steve -- No we haven't. I would like to do so. I can turn up way faster than Ed can, and have to throttle back so he can stay with me when we're flying formation.

    Tim -- The O-200 that I fly on the J3 is legally propped (7142).

    JimC

  20. #20

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    From memory - if you use wood, isn't anything legal so long as diameter is within specs and static runup is satisfactory?

  21. #21
    gbflyer's Avatar
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    Here we go with the C90 vs. 0-200 again. And to think, it only took 16 posts. I've owned both, still a C90, and about the only thing either will blow away is the hat on your head. Still, it's nice to burn 5 gallons an hour.

    gb

  22. #22

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    >and about the only thing either will blow away is the hat on your head. Still, it's nice to burn 5 gallons an hour. <

    We're getting off the ground on average about 110 feet shorter than a 150hp SuperCub with VG's and a 160hp without. That's close enough to blowing away to suit me..... :-)

    I strongly agree about the 5 gph.

    JimC

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    Inspection of Clip Wing Cub

    Do all Reed clip wing Cubs have wood spars? If so, is this a problem when flying aerobatics in a 60-year old plane? How does one do a thorough inspection of the wood spars without uncovering the wings?

    As a practical matter, would you buy a Cub or similar plane for aerobatics without uncovering the wings to inspect them in full?

    Thanks for your help.

    John

    P.S. I posted this elsewhere but received only one response. I appreciate your considering it here.

  24. #24
    BlackFly's Avatar
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    You seem to be suggesting that wood is not equal to other spar materials. If so, you couldn't be more wrong. A sixty year old spar is certainly worthy of inspection and that can be done through the inspection ports. It is doubtful that the spar is actually that old, and I suspect it was replaced around one of the more recent re-coverings. In any case, the inspection ports are very effective when used by and experienced AP/IA.

    I think you will find wood and/or wood composite spars in most aerobatic airplanes. Wood is very strong and the clipped wing cub has very short wings that get much less stress than the longer version.

    MT Propeller is the hottest hi-tech prop on the market and it's made of wood. I'd be more concerned about the steel.

  25. #25
    C-FIJK's Avatar
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    Clipped wing Cubs

    Where could a fellow get the plans for a clipped wing?
    Gerry Marcil

    Every day spent flying is a great day !

  26. #26

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    I built a cub from wag-aero and northland plans used tripacer wings and 0-235 L2C 115 HP 870 empty wt and I love it. I set the gross at 1320# and fly lite sport. It cruses at 100+ at 2250 and with VGs stall is slow. 30 gal fuel and it does come down when you cut power but all short wing pipers do.

  27. #27
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The Reed STC only applies to wood spars. There is a very old STC to clip the aluminum spars. Wood is very elastic. I wouldn't have a problem with wood if it had not been ground looped, nails weren't loose and no apparent rot.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce
    The Reed STC only applies to wood spars. There is a very old STC to clip the aluminum spars.
    Steve,
    Do you happen to know the name of that old aluminum spar clipped-wing STC?

    I just happen to own a metal spar, clipped cub. The paperwork was dated 1969 with a "Kleinburg" STC. Have you or anyone else heard of this? I've been keeping my eye out for paperwork on metal spar clipwings. There doesn't seem to be much out there. Any info on any metal spar clipped wings would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lorne

  29. #29
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    I thought there was an STC for the metal spars under the name Rowe. Just using my poor memory.

  30. #30
    d.grimm's Avatar
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    Close, pretty sure it's Rawe.
    Dave

  31. #31
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I have the Rawe STC paperwork but haven't heard or seen any others.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  32. #32

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    Thanks for the metal spar clipped wing info.....Gotta agree, they are one fun airplane. Lorne

  33. #33

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    Plenty of enthusiasm here. Anyone seen/have a clipped wing cub with PA-18 style fuselage structure?

    Cheers,
    Andrew.

  34. #34
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Here is a PA11 we got field approved.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  35. #35

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    Isn't the PA-11 fuse the same as the J-3?

    They fly it from the front I suppose?

    Aluminium wing spars?

  36. #36
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Yes.
    Both, actually flies a little better from the back seat.
    Yes.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  37. #37

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    Steve,

    Is there any chance of you posting some photos of that PA-11 Clip Wing?

    Thanks,
    Andrew.

  38. #38
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I will see what I have.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  39. #39
    Bernard's Avatar
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    I stumbled upon this old topic and figured I'd add my 2 cents.
    I have an Experimental/Amateur Built CWC. WagAero plans built fuselage, aluminum spar/rib wings with full span ailerons.
    C85-12 with full electrics, radio, transponder etc.
    860 lbs empty, 1400 lbs gross, 28 gallons of fuel usable.
    Approved for +6G/-3G and is a blast to fly.
    Take off and climb on a hot day with full fuel and seats is not an issue, will cruise at 90 - 95 mph loaded.
    Obviously faster solo and part fuel.
    Loops, rolls, spins, hammer heads, etc. all fine with 2 on board.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  40. #40

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    Bernard,

    That's a great looking CWC! I was wondering since it is a Wag Aero Kit, how did you like the quality of the kit and the help that Wag Aero is willing to offer? Any likes or dislikes? What nose bowl did you use? I really wish their website had more pictures and descriptions of the different kits and the options because it is lacking in that department. Thanks.

    V/R

    Adam

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