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Rigging both ailerons down

willyb

Registered User
Maynard,MA
I did a search on the subject but only came up with bits and pieces of info.

If there is a thread dedicated to it I would appreciate help in locating it.

I'd like to know if it is worth doing on a cub without flaps.
Thanks,Bill
 
Bill,

I've got down aileron rigged into my cub that has flaps, I had more to start with but it's around a 1/2" now.
It will certainly help in takeoff & landing on cubs without flaps, although I don't have the data to show how much.
The more down aileron you put in though, the more speed in cruise you lose, another trade off as usual.

Brad
 
Thanks Brad
I had read about it being done and thought it might be worth trying.I'd give up a little speed(it's TOO fast anyway :eek: ) If it made a worthwhile difference in take-off and landing.If nothing else I'll learn something.

If anyone else has input I would be interested in hearing it.

Bill
 
Bill, A friend in Florida bought a Legend Cub and the first thing he did was to take out the dihedral. He told me it was a little faster and a little slower. He's a aerobatic guy so who knows.

Tim
 
Thanks Tim

I was aware that Legend rigged their planes with more dihedral but did not think about it having any adverse effects.I foresee some methodical test sessions coming.I love doing this stuff.
Bill
 
I rig down. It improves takeoff and landing performance at a slight cost to cruise.

As for dihedral, I have a weensy bit more than factory setting because it rides better in the bumps that way.

Willyb, experiment away.
 
I'm surprised none of the other oldies here have jumped in with the story of Hoot Gibson, the only guy ever to do a Mach 1 slow roll in a 727. Seems there was a theory floating around Eastern AL(I think) that a 727 was just a tad faster in cruise with a couple of degrees of flaps out. Trouble is, any flap deployment on the 7 2 also put the LEDs (slats) out. Answer was to pull the LED circuit breaker before bumping thr flaps out 3-5 degrees. One day over middle America, Hoot decided to try it while the FE was in the lav. Upon returning to his sideways seat, the observant 2 striper noticed the offending circuit breaker out, and to be helpful, thumbed it back in. Imagine the result. Slats come out at about triple the max VFE. (There's a reason there ain't no MFE.) One slat quits flying formation with the rest of the aluminum causing a right smart bit of asymmetrical lift. Airplane rolls inverted, nose drops a lot, and soon our intrepid test pilot breaks Mach 1 in an uncontrollable roll. Since there aint no, "Oh :agrue: a slat tore off" checklist, Hoot improvises and dumps the gear to slow down while yelling at the FO to help him pull out of the dive. The FO couldn't hear him, probably because he was screaming too loudly and due to the sounds of rending metal as gear doors and other stuff joined the slat in freefall :p It did slow down, but not until bending the airframe beyond repair and putting more dihedral in the wings than Cubcrafters ever imagined. Our quick thinking hero was rewarded by the airline with a vacation. The FAA:whis: response was to mandate the installation of overspeed horns, which until recently went, "HOOT, HOOT, PULL UP!" rather than "WHOOP WHOOP, PULL UP!"
 
:lol: You're sure entertaining Pushhard, if you ever get to ND let me know, I'm buying :cheers . You and CD sure have a way of telling stories.
A night in the Can-Dak Lounge would only add to the entertainment :D .

Brad
 
GREAT STORY! My faith in aviation has been totally reaffirmed! May the like of a Hoot never leave our midst. :p
 
OK, Let's see. ND in January. I can't find an emoticon with frostbite.
Anyway, you're on, if Dreamer will let me out of the hangar. :lol: I do a fair amount of coaching for the UND aerobatic team and have heard all the stories of ND taverns. I guess when it's -40 out, there ain't much else to do but :cheers :W :Beer and preheat your airplanes and girlfriends :luv2: Do I need a passport? or translator?Probably not since English is the official language of drinking, even in Canada, eh?
 
Aileron droop

I did some aileron tests to find an answer to the droop situation. I rigged my droop system so I could raise or lower my ailerons in cruise 1" at the trailing edge. That's 1" above normal to 1" below normal 1/8 " at a time. 3/8" down was the best compromise. On the J-3 if your carry through aileron cable is exposed make a small cable tension er out of a piece of coat hanger and a small eye bolt. Rig your ailerons a bit loose for normal use. When you want flaps crank down on that shortening device. It will lower your ailerons a little more than a 1/2". Makes them stiff, but loosen them after you land. Worked for me for years. Jerry B. :)
 
what

Now Jerry,
If I can't use a coat hanger for a welding rod you sure can't use them
for the ailerons.
 
coathangars

If it wasn't for melted coat hangars half the ag planes in the south would be out of service.
Dave
 
jrussell said:
May the like of a Hoot never leave our midst. :p

Or, you might take the stance that a guy who lost control a plane full of people (but was fortunate enough to regain control) by using a made up unauthorized procedure that took advantage of a questionable (likely fictional) speed increase maybe needed a little time off to think about things.

Your hero status for recovering from an unusual situation is revoked if you put the plane there by doing something you weren't supposed to do.
 
Hoot's 727

There is a lot of BS around about Hoot's 727 incident, most of which is a good bar yarn. One slat on one side inexplicably extended in cruise. The crew did not extend the flaps, there was no change in dihedral, the fuselage was not bent, and the plane was not significantly damaged. It was used in training for years afterward and flew just fine. Sorry, but the "whoop-whoop-pull-up" system also had nothing to do with this incident, and overspeed warnings were around for a dozen years before this happened. Hoot did a great job and never lost a penny over this.

Never mess up a good story with the facts!
 
aalexander said:
jrussell said:
May the like of a Hoot never leave our midst. :p

Or, you might take the stance that a guy who lost control a plane full of people (but was fortunate enough to regain control) by using a made up unauthorized procedure that took advantage of a questionable (likely fictional) speed increase maybe needed a little time off to think about things.

Your hero status for recovering from an unusual situation is revoked if you put the plane there by doing something you weren't supposed to do.

True. But my remarks were meant a bit more globally, particularly since the oft repeated story bears little resemblance to the actual event. Hoot is the real thing, however, and it's always a pleasure to see him speak.
 
Heheh - if somebody said that about me, my feelings would be hurt - that they didn't want to hear me speak - - -
 
12 Geezer said:
Heheh - if somebody said that about me, my feelings would be hurt - that they didn't want to hear me speak - - -

Lol, had to read that on a couple of times before it finally sunk in.
 
12 Geezer said:
Heheh - if somebody said that about me, my feelings would be hurt - that they didn't want to hear me speak - - -

:lol: I suppose we could watch him speak, too...
 
An easy way to check is to do what you do to get more lift in a tight spot. Grab the balance cable over your head, pull on it and note any change. It will lower both ailerons. The looser the cables, the more aileron droop.
 
I rigged mine as much as 5/8 down measured at the inboard trailing edge.At this measurement it required nearly full nose up trim for level flight cruise.It did make a significant difference in take off ground run.Currently set back to neutral for now.

Bill
 
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