AKBushwheels vs Airstreak 29s

[Scouter]

Ok, Ive finally saved enough money to either pay the college room and board next semester for the boy at Purdue, or buy a set of 31 bushwheels.
I am doing the sensible thing and buying the bushwheels. My question is has anyone had any experience with the 29 x 10 shaved down airstreaks as compared to the 31s. As you know they are a tube type, and come complete with fancy new wheels. Most of my stuff is grass strips and farm fields, but do like to go to the airport for coffee, gas and BS.
The nice lady at Bushwheel says they have a couple dozen sets out now and they are working well. Somebody must have an opinion.

Jim

[Steve Pierce]

Are you comparing the former Gar Aero tires to Bushwheels or the new light weight Airstreak tires for LSAs?

http://www.alaskatundratires.com/maingear.html

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewt...hlight=garaero

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewt...hlight=garaero

There are more posts by searching gar-aero

[Tim]

Jim, all I can comment on are the 31s.
Best, and the most fun thing I ever bought for an airplane. Just tell your son you are spending his inheritance.

[Scouter]

Steve:

Ak Bushwheels are offering a buffed down Airhawk 29 on a set of 10"wheels they are making themselves. Seems like the price is around
$2400 for the setup. I think they are heavier than the 31s, at around 90 lbs for the pair. Its a recent addition to the line. Their website has a few pix of a Maule set up this way. Some folks at backcountrypilot.org are running them also.

Tim: Ever since that eventful evening at the WAD, my young wife has downcast her eyes at me since she saw the mighty Sportsman standing tall on her new 31s. I guess its true, size does matter. Her eyes seem to say "Go big or go home".


Jim

[Steve Pierce]

I found them. I thought Bill had something like that at New Holstein but couldn't find them on his website the first time. I bet they are a lot like the Gar-Aero's, big footprint without the absorption of the Bushwheel.

[AntiCub]

Most of my stuff is grass strips and farm fields, but do like to go to the airport for coffee, gas and BS.

Why do you want them? I fly almost exclusively out of grass and gravel strips with 6.00x6 mains and 5.00x5 nose (yup, I still have a training wheel). Are you planning to expand your list of landing sites? Have you been watching "Big Rocks and Long Props" too many times? Is there a moose you're willing to wreck your plane to kill? Or do you just want your plane to look like a child's pull toy? :P

That said, the new 10" bushwheels look interesting, They say there's no glue like the Gar-Aero/AK tundra tires, but I can't see from their site exactly how they do work. Are they stand alone wheels, or do they bolt to Clevelands?

Phil

[wingnut18]

The 29" Airhawk tires are a tire designed for a much heavier aircraft than a Cub. They work only with a 10" wheel. They became popular with the 185 and 206 drivers looking for a larger footprint and more flotation in the soft stuff. Gar Aero sold adapters which GLUED on to your 6" Cleveland wheel to make it a 10" wheel. Needless to say, there have been problems with adapters GLUED to wheels. Bushwheel has built, and STC'd a heavy duty 10" wheel to work with your Cleveland brakes and allow you to SAFELY run the Airhawks. This setup is a great option for folks looking for prop clearance and flotation, but they ain't Bushwheels. Bushwheels are a "Landing System", they offer shock absorption and the ability to hit big rocks, logs, chuck holes, your name it, without damaging your plane. Bushwheels can be run at very low pressure giving you a huge footprint. There is truly nothing like a set of Bushwheels.

[behindpropellers]

Ok, Ive finally saved enough money to either pay the college room and board next semester for the boy at Purdue, or buy a set of 31 bushwheels.
I am doing the sensible thing and buying the bushwheels. My question is has anyone had any experience with the 29 x 10 shaved down airstreaks as compared to the 31s. As you know they are a tube type, and come complete with fancy new wheels. Most of my stuff is grass strips and farm fields, but do like to go to the airport for coffee, gas and BS.
The nice lady at Bushwheel says they have a couple dozen sets out now and they are working well. Somebody must have an opinion.

Jim

Post your Son's email so I can explain to him that this is a good choice and he should use his dad's airplane as much as possible while he has a great rental rate

[Steve Pierce]

Phil, They stand alone with I think the Cleveland disc. I think you need a set for your airplane. OK, maybe the one you are gonna build.

[redrooster]

Looking at the ABW website, there is another option-- 850 x 10 tires on the 10" ABW wheels. Don't know how they compare to the shaved 29 x 10 and the 31 x 6 BW- size & weight or handling qualities.


Rooster

[Steve Pierce]

Scouter I don't think you are gonna be happy with anything less than 31" Bushwheels. You might as well call Nichole back and order them.

[AntiCub]

Phil, They stand alone with I think the Cleveland disc. I think you need a set for your airplane. OK, maybe the one you are gonna build.

Thanks Steve, but at 45lbs each I'm not sure I've got enough hp to get em rolling! Not to mention it would limit my girlfriend choices to pedophilia

As for the home built, at the rate I'm going there'll probably be something even better by the time it's ready for wheels.

Phil

[Steve Pierce]

Ha, I had to look that big word up Phil. You gotta remember us mechanics have a limited vocabulary. Maybe some Airstreaks for your present project.

[AntiCub]

Well it needs something alright. I'm not sure how it's going to handle mowed grass with it's current tires. For those that don't know, I'm currently helping build a Challenger II kitplane. What challenger calls "tundra tires" are mounted on 4" wheels and smaller than a 5.00x5.

Phil

[brownbear]

Anticub
I had a friend { no really, I did have a friend ! } that had a Challenger II about 10 or 15 years ago , great fun plane!
He had a little trouble with the nose gear and ended up make a spring suspension for it . Do the kits still come with solid nose gear or has that been up changed??
Doug :

[d dyre]

I talked to someone at Ak Bushwheels recently and asked the same question. He said he ran the 29x10s for a while on his Maule, but then went back to the 31s. So I bought the 31s.

[redrooster]

My 2005 Spruce catalog calls out the weight & price for McCreary Airtrac 850 x 10 tires: 16.5 lbs & $143.85 for 6 ply, and 19.5# & $165.95 for 8 ply. Each.

[mvivion]

I ran the 8.50 x 10 tires on a Cub for a number of years. Mine were on Gar Aero adapters. That was about the only option at that time for bigger tires, other than using the 29's on the Gar Aeros. I also flew several sets of buffed down 29's on Cubs.

These tires worked fine for almost anything I'd want to land on. They do not have the side wall flex of a Bush Wheel, so they aren't going to absorb the shocks as well, nor will they run over big stuff as well. They are also heavy.

So, it depends on your credit card limit, and what you will ACTUALLY do with these tires.

If you are going to run on pavement a LOT, compared to off airport, I really think the 8.50 6 plys would be hard to beat on a set of the ABW wheels.

MTV

[Clifford]

Tim, I picked up a set of 29" Airhawks at Hampton this year and am trying to find a set of wheels for them, not having much luck. They don!t need to be tso because as you know my cub is exp. Any ideas. Thanks Cliff.

[C-90 Cub]

Hands down..............go with the Bushwheels. There is nothing else. Just don't tell your son I said that

Steve

[RaisedByWolves]

Tim, I picked up a set of 29" Airhawks at Hampton this year and am trying to find a set of wheels for them, not having much luck. They don!t need to be tso because as you know my cub is exp. Any ideas. Thanks Cliff.

Check out Ak bushwheels, they have 10"wheels.

[aktango58]

Seriously?

Big tire break down: x10" tires, (26 or 29) lots of float, heavy, very little rough field absorbsion, less cost, tubes

Bushwheel tubeless: Wear on paved surface, lots of rough field absorbsion, some float (at lower pressures), no tube to go flat

Goodyear: wear good on pavement, cheap to buy, easy to spin on a cub, some float for soft ground.

If you are mostly on non paved places, get the tubeless. If you spend quite a bit of time on paved places, you might think about the x10 on a cub. Then again, a set of 8:50x6 might do most of your work anyway.

[Tim]

Tim, I picked up a set of 29" Airhawks at Hampton this year and am trying to find a set of wheels for them, not having much luck. They don!t need to be tso because as you know my cub is exp. Any ideas. Thanks Cliff.

Clifford, I'm looking for you, Don't forget Zink's this weekend 90ME

[Rob]

I wonder if you meant Airhawks?

Airstreaks are light and bushwheel like, Airhawks are heavy and tank like...

IMAG0384.jpg
29-11-10's on Alaskan Bushwheel Wheels
Getting gassed at Roll.jpg
On the plane



I just sold a set of these dirt cheap... I had them on my 180, which is reasonably light as 180s go. They were to heavy and stiff walled for that airplane, and in my opinion would only be worse on a cub.
They only offer an advantage in foot print, not in squish, which is the biggest advantage of Bushwheels.
I think they are probably the optimum tire for a 135 operator that frequents gravel, but comes back to pavement, all while carrying big loads. And of course all in an airplane of C-185 proportions...

Unless you just want the big tire 'look', I think you will find that a set of goodyears will do everything 29-11-10s will do, at a much lesser dollar and weight penalty. On the other hand, neither will do what real Bushwheels will.... They would be my vote... but then again, I prefer my coffee by a river bed

Take care, Rob

[Rob]

And for comparison sake. here's the same airplane on Goodyears:
alamo with gary.jpg

And another shot on 29" Bushweels (not Airhawks):
IMAG0410.jpg

Take care, Rob

[907cub]

If you go the 8:50 10 route, a set off a caravan work well on small planes. The tread is mostly ground off and the side walls have some flex to them after so many landings under the heavy caravan. There not bushwheels by any means!!

[sierra bravo]

I'm about to switch my 180 from 29" Bushwheels to 29x11x10 Air Hawks. To keep the "heavy" comments in perspective, my total weight gain for the switch will be about the same as adding 1 1/4 gallons of gas to each tank. I can handle that. The Bushwheels crew sells and supports both tires. For good reason. There's a place for both.

[skywagon8a]

Goodyear: wear good on pavement, cheap to buy, easy to spin on a cub, some float for soft ground.

Can you explain why they are easy to spin on a Cub please? Is it because the pilot is using excessive braking? Not enough air pressure holding the bead against the wheel? Are the side walls too stiff thereby prompting the pilot to carry too low an air pressure in order to get the flex on rough terrain?

Do the bushwheel tires spin on the rims under the same circumstances and just don't cause trouble because they are tubeless?

I can understand how any of them can spin with double puck disc brakes coupled with the improved master cylinder when the pilot uses a heavy foot. Is there another reason?

[mvivion]

I've run 26 in
Goodyear blimp tires on a number of different aircraft, and never had a problem. Pay attention to inflation pressures (like check them twice a year or so) mount them properly, and run reasonable pressures, and you won't have any issues with them.

That admonition is based on folks who inflate em to 10 psi, then ignore them for six months, while temps change and the tubes leak down. Pressure gets to 3 psi, and they spin a tire and of course it's the tires fault.

Tires are the Rodney Dangerfield of aircraft parts...they get no respect. And it's VERY hard to judge inflation pressure on these tires on a cub visually, due to stiff sidewalks.

Keep them at 12 psi plus on a cub and you shouldn't have a problem.

They are blimp tires, though, NOT Bushwheels.

MTV

[Longwinglover]

I just want to know if Jim (Scouter) got his boy through Purdue on the five year plan (cramming 4 years into 5)? It's been 5 years since this thread was started.

John Scott

[sierra bravo]

One thing I can add about the comparison of 29" Bushwheels to 29" Air hawks is that Bushwheels are taller than Air Hawks. Taller by between 3-4" overall from what I just measured. If AOA is a consideration the advantage goes to Bushwheels. In my case I'll compensate by lowering the tail a little.

[AKClimber]

SB,
Why did you switch to the Airhawks from Bushwheels?
Too much pavement, or?

[btracy]

Patrolguy has both for his Scout. Might want to get ahold of him and see how they work

[Rob]

I'm about to switch my 180 from 29" Bushwheels to 29x11x10 Air Hawks. To keep the "heavy" comments in perspective, my total weight gain for the switch will be about the same as adding 1 1/4 gallons of gas to each tank. I can handle that. The Bushwheels crew sells and supports both tires. For good reason. There's a place for both.

Hi SB,
I agree... There are good applications for everything the bushwheel folks sell. I have no doubt you will be pleased with your new tire selection. I also have no doubt the 15-20 lb. Weight difference will go un noticed in your O-520 powered Cessna I guess whether or not that is significant to the average cub guy, depends on the individual.

My cub is essentially a toy. That being the case I see no reason to compromise in the tire department. It doesn't get into the city, so tire wear isn't much of a factor.
On my Cessna, I just prefer to use a better tool when off field, and then swap out to a better tool when I depend on it for city to city transpiration ... The 29-11-10's made a great 'one tire fits all' compromise... I guess I am currently fortunate enough not to have to make that compromise...

Take care, Rob

[sierra bravo]

SB,
Why did you switch to the Airhawks from Bushwheels?
Too much pavement, or?

Zero pavement.The primary goal is to reduce lateral roll. Make a turnout with any speed and my Bushwheels at 10# will roll under pretty badly under a 3000# airplane. As for weight? I don't fly my 180 empty so I doubt I'll care about that. Bottom line, if I find the Air Hawks less suitable for my use I'll switch back.

[jwmusgrove]

If you fly low, (river rocks, grass, maybe a branch or two) 29/31/35 Bushwheels are great. If you get up higher, (ridge lines with sharp rocks, brush cut down to generate pungee stakes, regular taste of pavement), better to go with a real tire. I have shredded Bushwheels in a single season, vs Airhawks going 5 or more years. One sharp stick, or one sharp rock, the helicopter bill will have you in tears for years. If you are recreating along river bars, or ocean beaches, or have the option to land on the grass beside the paved runway, you are in Bushwheel Country. And the fuselage loves the gentle massage!

[Clifford]

Tim, the wx dose not look too great, might not make it thanks for the invite. Cliff

[courierguy]

If you fly low, (river rocks, grass, maybe a branch or two) 29/31/35 Bushwheels are great. If you get up higher, (ridge lines with sharp rocks, brush cut down to generate pungee stakes, regular taste of pavement), better to go with a real tire. I have shredded Bushwheels in a single season, vs Airhawks going 5 or more years. One sharp stick, or one sharp rock, the helicopter bill will have you in tears for years. If you are recreating along river bars, or ocean beaches, or have the option to land on the grass beside the paved runway, you are in Bushwheel Country. And the fuselage loves the gentle massage!

I am (sort of) glad to hear this. I was thinking it was just me, but the Idaho ridge/mt. tops are cutting my 29" Airstreaks (LSA type Bushwheel tires) to ribbons. On a 740 lb. Rans S-7S flown solo, with minimal to no braking and with as wide as radius turns as I can make on turn arounds, they are getting beat up at a rapid rate. So far no air leaks, but I did use the NO LEAKS goop inside and lately I have been flying with an air pump and patch kit. I run 6 lbs pressure, and have landed asphalt 6 or 7 times this year, so I'm sure it is the shale ridges doing the damage. (Sorry for the font change, don't know what I did!)

This latest, pictured, really got my attention, being on the wear part of the tire. Deep enough to "pooch out" enough that you can feel when you run your finger across. I patched them with a standard tire patch and contact glue. The patchs are holding fine but last weekend in Montana I had to taxi on asphalt and sure enough the tire now goes galumph everytime I roll over the patches. The other dozen or so are all on the sidewalls pretty much. I've been telling myself "ah hell, just cosmetic, don't sweat it", but even the gravel bars here are hard on them, in fact that is where I got the ones pictured, near as I can tell. I land super slow, 30 or less, everytime, and really other then staying off where I'm going, don't have a clue as to how to cut the wear down. About 300 hours so far. Maybe more pressure? I sure do like the way they ride now, and sidewall deformation is not bad excessive to my light weight. Any suggestions?

[jwmusgrove]

Some have had good luck using brush-on bedliner. Clean the tire up real good, wipe down with xylene, brush on thin layer, let it dry in the sun. Xylene is toxic, read the MSDS, wear a respirator. Everything in life is a compromise.

[courierguy]

My only concern with the bedliner idea is how well a patch would stick to it if you ever needed one. The patch I made (two actually) seemed to bond real well to the tire. How they would bond to the bed liner would be an unknown, or if a tire needed a patch could the bed liner be scrapped off and the patch made direct to the tire? Anyone ever need to go this route after bed lineing it? Still, I like that idea, (I have to do something....) and will scout around locally and see what the local auto supply stores carry, and will do a little experimenting on a old tailwheel.