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carbon cub is for sale

Phillip Elgin

Phillip Elgin

Registered User
N. Alabama
just noticed the carbon cub officially on the market, doug you have a fine airplane and someone is going to have a ton-o-fun with that cub. wish now that i would have taken that ride in new holstien, an incredible performing aircraft for sure. you have designed several hot performers with the c.c. probably the best to date, will be interesting to see what follows. :crazyeyes:
 
Hhmmmm, that price tag of 265k makes me wonder, if I should not raise the price for Brutis, Exp. 250hp significantly. Brutis is comparatively similar, but with over 1000 lbs useful load......more fuel too......See "For Sale, Experimental". :wink:
 
Bring Brutis to Valdez next year and we'll see if it can do what the Carbon Cub can do. The Carbon Cub was IMPRESSIVE!
 
What's the practical difference between an 18' takeoff roll and probably a 50' takeoff roll???
Bragging rights!!! BFD
Mike
 
If I had the money I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

85Mike, no, its not bragging rights, its PERFORMANCE. It is the feeling you get that saturates your heart in awe and wonder. It is the same feeling you get when standing in front of a top quality stereo, or next to a formula 1 car at 16,000RPM, or in front of a Rembrandt painting. It is about Quality. It is the feeling you get when holding Snap-on tools Vs hardware store junk. A Dodge Neon will provide transportation but never the soul satisfying inner Nirvana that comes from the pure QUALITY of a Duesenberg.
Does not matter what it is, a physical object, man made, God made, or even something intangible as in the arts, music, painting, etc. Quality defines us, and satiates the soul.

Bill
 
50

Mike. Are you saying you are the 50 or just wishing you were. Some people build airplanes to go fast at Reno. Others build airplanes to climb to the absolute highest altitude possible for a piston airplane. Some build them to go around the world without refueling. Are these also BFD's to you? Lighten up and thank your lucky stars you still live in a country where we are able to pursue those things that we love. If you don't care to participate that's great. You're welcome to ignore the whole short field thing. But to put down someone else's effort just because you don't personally understand nor care to understand the effort involved, is not the grace that is so common on this site. Jerry B.
 
Bill Rusk said:
If I had the money I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

85Mike, no, its not bragging rights, its PERFORMANCE. It is the feeling you get that saturates your heart in awe and wonder. It is the same feeling you get when standing in front of a top quality stereo, or next to a formula 1 car at 16,000RPM, or in front of a Rembrandt painting. It is about Quality. It is the feeling you get when holding Snap-on tools Vs hardware store junk. A Dodge Neon will provide transportation but never the soul satisfying inner Nirvana that comes from the pure QUALITY of a Duesenberg.
Does not matter what it is, a physical object, man made, God made, or even something intangible as in the arts, music, painting, etc. Quality defines us, and satiates the soul.

Bill
Click to expand...

Stop it .... Your killing me :lol:

The person that buys this airplane will have more cash than they know what to do with and an ego to match. It will likely never get used to its capabilities but will be strutted around to all the flyin's and the owner will be an instant celebrity. Fortunately for the folks that built it there are plenty of people like that around these days.
 
carbon cub

wow that's some big bucks! can you imagine the bill for repairing that paint job after a few willow choked gravel bar landings! :eek:
 
Great plane (no useful load tho) and yeah it performs unbelievably well, and Doug is a super great guy...

But I'd still keep my SWEET Super Cub even if the Carbon Cub was offered in a straight across trade. :D Plus who wants to be a celebrity in a CUB? That's crazy, fly too low over someone's house one time to many and you will be the next one selling that beautiful Carbon Cub! :lol:

I can just hear it now..."Yes Inspector, I'm sure of it, it was that danged crazy hotroddin bastid with the flames painted on his plane....!" 8)

RB
 
High Country said:
Bring Brutis to Valdez next year and we'll see if it can do what the Carbon Cub can do. The Carbon Cub was IMPRESSIVE!
Click to expand...

My previous post was in response to the above.
I saw the CC and it is a very impressive (one purpose in life) airplane.
Of course wilhelm tell's Brutis is not going to out perform the Carbon Cub in takeoff performance!!
Sounds to me like a lot more practical type (multi-purpose) plane though.
Mike
 
Hot Rods

After playing around with Hot Rods, and Race Cars, I can see the engineering and time it takes to build a plane like Carbon Cub.
Its great to see someones imagination come to life. That was done when the first piper cubs were built.
All the car manufactures look at the new race cars ect, even hot rods for more ideas on new cars.

No, I would say the Carbon Cub was a important step in the evolution of new things to come. It just cost alot of money to put something together like that, about the best you can hope for is to break even when selling it and you will never get all the labor back.

Im looking forward to the next generation also, I can't think of anyway someone could get off the ground shorter unless it had Jet engines and a Titanium airframe.


Bill
 
Of course wilhelm tell's Brutis is not going to out perform the Carbon Cub in takeoff performance!!
Click to expand...
Mike, did I say it would out perform the Carbon Cub?

Brutis is comparatively similar,
Click to expand...
If you are going to make the statement then you need to be prepared to back it up. The Carbon Cub is the reigning champion in the STOL world and if you want a shot at the title, then come and get some. I am in no way badmouthing Mr. Tell's creation. I think Brutis looks very interesting and would love to see how it performs. It takes a huge amount of effort to create a plane like that. Anyone who undertakes such a project has my respect.

I also agree with Jerry and Bill. How many of us can financially justify our airplanes? Probably not many of us. We dump money into them because we have a passion for flying. If I had the money, I would be calling Doug right now.
 
I thought I would add my two cents on this subject.

I personally built the wings, flaps, and ailerons on Brutis, yes the airplane in question. I sold the airplane unfinished to Bud Hibbard, he finished it and sold it to the current owner. Brutis has the same wing spars as Carbon Cub (stock PA-18 spars), only longer. I don't have any idea how the gross weight was established on Brutis. I do know that it should be similar to that of Carbon Cub or a PA-18. Brutis is about 500# heavier than Carbon Cub with less static thrust, I have flown Brutis when Bud owned it. Not to bad mouthing Brutis, just shedding light on the facts. I will gladly compete against Brutis with Carbon Cub.

As far of useful load on Carbon Cub, I think it is more than most PA-18-150/180s out there. The average PA-18-150/180 weighs 1200# (equipped like Carbon Cub) with a gross weight of 1750#. This gives a useful load of 550#. Carbon Cub weighs 1025# with a gross weight of 1650# which equates to a useful load of 625#.

Yes it is expensive, it was also expensive to build. The value has nothing to to with what I or anyone else thinks, it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I have had an offer for $225k so I know it is worth at least that much. The wonderful thing about this country and the free market is that I get the opportunity to put Carbon Cub up for sale and see what it will bring.

Thanks,
Doug
 
ksecub said:
I have had an offer for $225k so I know it is worth at least that much. The wonderful thing about this country and the free market is that I get the opportunity to put Carbon Cub up for sale and see what it will bring.

Thanks,
Doug
Click to expand...

Doug-

So what is next on the drawing board if you sell it?

Tim
 
Hello Tim,

The first thing I plan to do is buy a spam can for my growing family. I need a four place cruiser to haul my wife and our 6 year old twin daughters around. I have postponed the four place long enough and it is now time to purchase one before the kids grow up and move on.

I will also build another cub. I have a PA-18 project that needs to be completed. I may build another Carbon Cub if I can get Cub Crafters help, I don't know yet. I do know one thing, it will be very light weight. It will most likely lack an electrical system, have huge wings with big slotted flaps, a big engine, 35" tires, and a 90" propeller. I will let you know as soon as I figure it out.

Doug
 
The great thing is that we will all be able to benefit from the technological advances that Doug has made with the Carbon Cub as we have from people like Jerry Burr. :up
 
Doug,

I knew it....did not expect any less reaction...

Thanks Doug for your personal contribution in building part of Brutis. You, your team and Bud did a great job.

As to gross weight: I understood from Byron Roots, that the GW was established partially on the basis, that that same spar was also used on Pawnees, operating at 2500lbs. I stand corrected...

My initial comment only contained a big Hmmmmmmm, which was related to price and a contemplated price increase for Brutis.

My reference to the two planes being similar applies, if you look at the specs. Similar is not equal, better or less. E.G. Brutis, as you know, can carry 72 gal. which makes for some long legs, has a payload (@ 36gal, or half fuel) of 850lbs, attributes I like.

I also look at power plants. I personally prefer that 6 cyl. - smooth - at low compression over a 10:1 4 cylinder. In a pinch I can always use some car gas..... Longevity may be an issue too...?

Empty weight is only 400 lbs more than the Carbon Cub. The additional hp and the 39 ft. +/- wing compensate for that somewhat.

Static trust. I may agree with you, Doug. The 90" Sensenich prop on Brutis is not optimal. A constant speed MT would improve the overall static trust. 18k for Prop, Hub, Spinner & Backplate, Governor and control would take care of that. I pm you my bank account for a contribution....

Long story short, Brutis' price tag is cheap! Maybe the message get's across to some potential buyer....so I can go and order that Found Expedition......

Cheers




:wink:
 
Wilhelm, I have invested a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in your airplane and I am not bad mouthing it at all. Your airplane was built for a specific purpose. My needs have changed over the years and therefore I have gone a different direction. I do think your airplane is priced very low considering what was invested to produce it. There is no way it could be produced today for your asking price. It will sell, just like Carbon Cub, it takes a unique buyer.

I want to give Cub Crafters a plug for their work developing Carbon Cub. I played a part in developing Carbon Cub, but it would not have happened without Jim Richmond and his crew at Cub Crafters.

Doug
 
Doug

we are on the same page....thanks again for your exceptional work - it shows!

PS: do you know of Bud Hibbard's health condition?

Cheers
 
Wilhelm,

I saw Bud about a month ago, he seemed to be getting around fine. He really wants to get another airplane, I think he wants a PA-11, or something LSA.

Doug
 
carbon cub

Well if no one else will say it I will... A quarter mil for a cub just proves the old adage about having more money than sense....
 
Nanook

Comparing to our (Brutis) and other projects, wheras you build a plane from scratch, granted, using some existing components, but redesign, engineer, build, correct, adjust and build again until you have the ultimate machine, costs an enormus amount of money (and time). The Carbon Cub and Brutis are on the leading edge - Experiments in a true sence - a push forward into new territory. New designs, new engineering, exotic materials drive the price. Often labor costs are not included or heavily discounted. We are talking custom made.

Which brings me to my original Hmmmmmmm about Brutis' price tag. We are contemplating raising the price by end of August 07, trying to recapture some of these expenses.

Cheers
 
Which brings me to my original Hmmmmmmm about Brutis' price tag. We are contemplating raising the price by end of August 07, trying to recapture some of these expenses
Click to expand...


Makes sense, it's been for sale for 8 months, raising the price should help move it a bit faster...
 
Being an Engineer myself, I certainly understand the time and resources that go into a new product launch. The bad thing is that you have to produce enough volume to overcome your R&D, tooling, marketing, overhead etc. Can't just make it up on the first 3 or 4 units. But, I may be way off base...I don't know if you are planning to go into production or if this was a "one time" project. I apologize for my assumption if that's the case.

No offense, but in this market most people in the hunt for a Cub type airplane are just going to take their $265K and buy a really nice light weight 160 horse PA-18 and still have $150K left over to buy a pristine Cessna 185. That's just my opinion of course, but I wish you the best.
 
Just think of all the Bushwheels you'd be winning year after year in the short take off competition at Valdez. You could win a new set every year and sell them off. 20 years of winning 3K in tires = 60K. Reduce the $225,000 by 60K and it's down-right affordable at $165,000. Plus the bragging rights for winning every competition in sight.
 
carbon cub for sale

Would you please be so kind as to publish the fuel burn at 65, 75 and max continuous power on your "220 hp" Lycoming? What model engine is it and what size/type are the fuel tanks?

Thanx.
 
I have a fuel computer in the airplane. I don't really look at it at full power or takeoff much. I have seen around 17 GPH on takeoff and steep climb out. I typically fly it at 2350 RPM which gives me a cruise speed of 90 MPH. At this power setting the fuel computer indicates 5.7 to 6.5 GPH depending on altitude. The fuel tanks are aluminum similar to what you would see on a Cub. The tanks are 12 gallons each for a total of 24 gallons.

In regard to the other question about recouping my investment. I did not and do not build and fly airplanes to make money. I enjoy building new airplanes and learning from them and doing it all over again. Every airplane I build, I am convinced that it will be the ultimate and I will keep it forever. After I get an airplane flying, I get bored and start thinking of new airplanes. I am not convinced I will be able to produce something better than Carbon Cub, but I will have fun trying. I guess I get my kicks by trying new things and learning. If I looked at it from purely a financial perspective I would not do it. Life is short and I like to do the things that make me happy, no I am not going to get rich doing it, but it sure is fun. Call me crazy, everyone else does and I don't really care.

In regard to the guy that would spend his $265k on a PA-18-160 and a C-185. If you are considering a PA-18-160 than don't even look twice at Carbon Cub. The two airplanes have totally different performance capabilities unless you are talking about Paul Claus's PA-18-160. I do like the idea of buying a C-185, that makes sense to me. I think a lower priced C-182 makes even more sense in my situation.

Doug
 
I don't get it...who built the Carbon Cub..Cub Crafters or???
I though JR had his hands in that pie..
Maybe I am just coming in too late in the movie...


Sam


8)
 
Hello Sam,

My name, Doug Keller is listed as the builder. Let's just say that Jim Richmond and his craftsmen at Cub Crafters played a role in putting the aircraft together.

Doug
 
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