Any current or former Banner tow pilots here use a Helmet? What type and where to get one. Motorcyclists seem to do better in an accident wearing one than without, It should apply to high risk aviation jobs too.IMO
Any current or former Banner tow pilots here use a Helmet? What type and where to get one. Motorcyclists seem to do better in an accident wearing one than without, It should apply to high risk aviation jobs too.IMO
Josh,
Do a search on this site. There are several threads on this subject.
I wouldn't even consider any helmet except a CGF Gallet helmet. They are distributed in this country by Merit Apparel.
http://www.meritapparel.com/
MTV
I have a Kevlar Gentex HGU-33 with ANC that is custom fitted and would be hard to beat.
Mark
If it was custom fitted by Flight Suits, you were lucky. I can introduce you to a lot of Gentex customers who got "custom fits" that never fit.
Gallet uses Oregon Aero's fit system. It is simple, works well, and less hassle.
I've used both. I had one custom fit Gentex that sorta did fit, and one that didn't even come close after three tries. I gave up on that one, and I know several others who've run into the same issue.
MTV
Yes Mike,
A wax mold of my head and perfect fit.
Mark
George, from this site has looked into this subject quite a bit, his experience is someplace on this site...
Originally Posted by mmr
Do they still sell them? I tried a year or so ago to get one and they weren't interested. Making big bucks out of selling them to the military, seemed like they didn't want to sell them to individuals anymore. I did have a good run from Flightsuits, used to get one every few years. The one I have now is just about stuffed, the only choice I have is a Galet, they just look too cheap (for a big buck helmet) and nasty.
Student,
Flight Suits has never been very customer oriented, at least in my experience, and I started buying helmets from them 25 years ago. As far as I know, they'll still sell you a helmet.
But, for the last 10 years or so, I used Gallet helmets, and I'd never go back. THey are good solid helmets, they are lighter than most of the Gentex helmets, they have reasonably good passive noise reduction, and they FIT easily, and properly.
We equipped at least 15 people with Gallet helmets over the last six or so years, and every one of them has been really happy with them.
Contact Rob Hamers at Merit Apparel in this country for good Gallet service, but buy the Oregon Aero fit kit, whatever you do--it makes fitting easy and near perfect.
MTV
Gentex SPH-5 helo helmet with Oregon Aero pads in it.
Love it for the big, bug-eyed sunglasses, if nothing else. (I'm just north of 50 and need the stupid $#*!@ reading glasses to see the dials, meters and fine print, so this is nice to be able to wear them under the visor).
My goal is to keep the helmet from making a big dent in my new panel!!!
I've said this before - I wouldn't ride a bicycle without a helmet - why would I ride a cub without one? They keep your ears warm in the winter, and block out a LOT of noise. (you sno-go guys know what I'm talking about). I can wear this thing for six to eight hours without going nuts. (well, too late for that, I suppose).
I got mine on Ebay for $300.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur
The SPH-5 with Oregon Aero fit kit is very comfortable, but it is heavy. Try a Gallet just once, and you'll be sold on that.
MTV
If Gentex SPH-4C or -5, try the small /medium shell, the large one is rather bulky for the tiny Cub cockpit. We use our Gentex with two different glasses, dark -of course- and yellow for hazy weather. Gives a better view in respect of contours when the visibility goes down. I prefer to leave the Gentex in the helicopter and use my headsets in the Cub. Much lighter and I can turn my head faster to look out of the cockpit. After several hours with the helmet on, my neck bones start aching.
So, how much do one of these puppies cost, either the Gallet or the Gentex?
Mike and I have been saying this for the last few years every time this thread gets started. Rob Hamers at Merit Apparel in Vero Beach, Florida. Mine was around $1,100 with ALL the extras. Kevlar with custom paint, dual visors, Oregon Aero fit kit, cool liner, ANR, NVG visor cover with custom paint, and oxygen mask recievers.
Like the shirt says - just do it!
Oh yeah,
I had a Flight suits helmet for 6,000 hours first. Their customer service sucks and the fit sucks. Especially after the first 3,000 hours.
lowflyin'G3 wrote
Have you had yours awhile? I paid between 15 and $1600 for mine with ear buds about a year ago.Mine was around $1,100
Marty
Lowflying G3, your lucky if you get 6,000 hours out of a Flightsuits one, mine usually were worn out after 3 years or about 2,000 hours.
Mike, there's a good Gallet distributor in this country now, I will give them a go after your good rap.
Jeez Mart,
Why'd you have to go and depress a guy? After you posted I went and look at my old invoice and it was more like $1300 and yes I got this one in 2002. But other than a speaker replacement two years ago she's still going.
lowflyin'G3 wrote
Better you than me.Why'd you have to go and depress a guy?
I have the kevlar Gentex with noise canceling. it is a good helmet but when it wears out I am buying the Gallet helmet. Every one that I know that has switch from the Gentex to the Gallet is very happy with the Gallet and will not go back to the Gentex.
In my opinion any helmet is a lot better than no helmet!!!!!
Jerry Jacques
I have often pondered the mission of a helmet. What is the survivability of a high speed impact, in a cub. I'm thinking a helmet is best suited for a slow speed impact or nose over. Beyond a low speed incident I think a helmet does not improve survivability much.
Pete
High speed in Cubs, Just like Military Intelligence....LOL Look at Pilots flying HIGH SPEED Jets, they wear Helmets, not because of high speed impact but to head injuries associated with low speed accidents, or ejections, or loss of control during flight (Departure of Flight).
Motorcycle accidents, majority of fatal accidents are due to head trauma, High speed or low speed, some motor scooter dude fell off at a full stop, killed when his grape hit the curb! Cubs have tubes all around, look at the V brace, put your melon in that vise during impact and see what happens. A helmet would prevent a lot of low impact blows to the head. Too bad there Friggin Expensive!
I also use the Kevlar Gentex HGU-33 and got a great fit using their wax mold approach. Yes, it's a little bit of a nuisance to do the mold - you'll definitely want the help of a friend and be sure that the cameras are all locked up because you'll make some pretty good grimaces trying to get the thing off your head - but the mold will give you a good fit. I've done lots of long days (like 7 - 9 hours flying time) with little or no discomfort, and the noise canceling and visibility are better than a headset & sunglasses combination.
Yes, they're certainly expensive, and we've all flown lots of hours without needing one. However, my guess is that you're darn glad you were wearing it when you need it. I think of the cost of the helmet is kind of like car insurance: you can pay premiums for years and never make a claim, but it sure is great to have when the car gets totaled unexpectedly.
Go back and find the picture Kase posted of the bloody instrument panel: that was a groundloop accident and the pilot was not wearing a helmet. After his accident, I think Marc Olson noted that a helmet was in his future.
Speedo
A close friend that was with the FAA helped me research flight helmets stats years ago. He had personally investigated the crash site of 26 fatal Alaska cub crashes, most of the pilots that had died would have survived if they were wearing a helmet. His opinion after seeing the autopsy's is all but 4 of the 26 dead pilots would have lived if they had worn a flight helmet. The autopsy of many of the dead pilots showed the only major trauma was to the head. Usually the front left quadrant of the scull was crushed. It seems that all to often even with a shoulder harness your head hits the left side of the plane with enough force to just barley kill you.
Cessna has research that shows “survival rate in an aircraft crash is 95.7% if you eliminate the head trauma”
Jerry Jacques
Jerry
your stats from the previous helmet post are very interesting.
________
i.e.: most of the pilots that had died would have survived if they were wearing a helmet. . .His opinion after seeing the autopsy's is all but 4 of the 26 dead pilots would have lived if they had worn a flight helmet. ..
Cessna has research that shows “survival rate in an aircraft crash is 95.7% if you eliminate the head trauma”
__________
Well I'm glad I bought the David Clark Helmet before researching supercub.org for helmet advice!! I've been bitching about the price on the David Clark one for sometime now - $320 - but now as I read back i see some of you are recommending ones which cost more like $1,000!! That's too darn pricey for me.
I can't think of any good reason for not having a GPS with Terrain Awareness - in fact I think it's absolutely NUTS to fly without Terrain awareness on your GPS. As it's getting dark or hazy out those antennas can get you!! Here in Maine we had a 10,000 hour pilot fly into a mountain a few years ago - if this pilot just had terrain awareness - once in the clouds the pilot would have been able to avoid the mountain.
After talking with people about helmets - I found I could no longer find any good reason for not owning one. So I made the plunge today - Skygeek.com seems to have the best price for the David Clark helmet - about $320. At least it's one item which should last a lifetime.
have a good day.
cliff in Maine
dows.com
I went with a David Clark helmet, too. That, coupled with my DC ENC headsets and a visor from the local Harley shop (MXL HFS Armor Clad flip up smoked lens) makes for a nice rig. While not the "top of the line" in helmet selection, one can certainly make the argument that this helmet is better than nothing.
The DC K-10 is different from the DC deck helmets. It's beefier and has incorporated the temple protection that is of concern in the deck helmet version.
I bought mine from Skygeek. According to my neighbor, who is a neuro-psychologist who rehabs head traumas, the cost was less than an hour of his time. That made an impression on me as my self-insured deductible is 15k. One could certainly rack up some medical bills in a hurry with a good smack on the head.
The helmet is light and comfortable. I didn't notice it as much as I thought I would and pretty much forgot about it by the second hour.
Your existing headset attaches to the liner, which is then attached to the helmet. It seems to offer additional noise reduction, probably because of the manner in which the liner holds the headset.
A couple of notes. Remove the ear seals before attaching the liner. The instructions have it backwards. Also, there is an extension velcro piece available by calling DC that accommodates the ENC headsets that have the larger headband pad.
As always, customer service and support from David Clark is superb. Always has been, and hopefully always will be. I can't say enough about what a pleasure it has been to deal with DC over the past 20 years.
I fly the PA-11, which has the through-spars to the center post, like the J-3. A good friend took a bit of a whack on the center post tubes that left him senseless for about a minute. So, having a helmet seems to make sense for a PA-11 pilot.
So, I now have a decent helmet, military surplus survival vest, an EPIRB attached to the vest, fire extinguisher, safety cables and VGs. I feel pretty comfortable on those occasional long legs over the Great Maine Woods.
Just took a quick trip to see my ol' Uncle Ebay.
He has one for $250 (auction ends tomorrow) new in box.
Item number: 140160378082
Bargain noggin' saver??
Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"
Nimpo.....have not looked at the item but this has all been covered in previous posts.Bottom line: type of helmet, (Kevlar,poly resin etc.) size and fit, (very important) liner type,etc. All play a very big role in this.Mike and others have discussed this all in depth.Do a search for helmet in previous posts.As for me,I would not do the Ebay thing.Too many variables/unknowns involved.Are you willing to trust your life to that kind of arrangement just to save some $$ ? Brand new for $250 ? Hmm........Herman.
Howdy Herman (& all)
Yeah, if I can afford $250 but can't really justify $1500+, then I'm way ahead (oooh, a pun) of the game right? Fit can be achieved if the hat is reasonably close.
Is one of my old MC helmets (now "worth" $0.) better than my BBall cap? Sure. Is an Ebay bargoon as good as a multi-thousand $ Mil-spec helmet? Dunno, but probably fine for my application.
Spend 'em if ya got 'em.
Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"
To Cliff in Maine,
You may want to check your GPS, but the terrain avoidance data bases normally do not include man made obstacles. You are still on your own as far as towers.
Tim
bat44, the newer garmin's do show tower's
Terrain avoidance - I just look out the window, and it seems to work pretty good to me.
M1
Yep. And if you can't look out the window and see the terrain, you shouldn't be there. I'm assuming the accident Cliff refers to is this one: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...18X01248&key=1
GPS is not the answer. the answer is to not push into deteriorating weather until you can't see and hit a mountain. This may sound harsh, but that's the long and the short of it. If the pilot in question had turned around while she still had visibility, she'd still be alive.
There seems to be a disturbing trend toward believing that if you have a GPS with a moving map display, it's OK to poke your nose into conditions which don't allow you to see the rocks, or towers, or whatever. I won't dispute the value of such a system as a *backup* to a solid, well thought out, and professionally executed plan for keeping from hitting something you can't see. But that plan, whatever it is, should be sufficient by itself to keep you from crashing. The GPS is an additional layer of safety What I can't agree with is using the GPS map, not as a backup to that plan, but as a *substitute* for that plan. If a moving map display is your primary means of not hitting something, you really need to be rethinking what you're doing. Technology is not a substitute for basic airmanship.
Here's two pilots and some passengers who came to grief precisely for relying on technology rather than airmanship:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...18X01044&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...06X05441&key=1
Both bet their lives that technology could keep them from hitting something. Both misunderstood the limits of the technology that they were betting their lives on. One lost, and the other got pretty badly hurt.
Whew! For a minute there I thought I was the only one with a Dave Clark helmet. Got mine back when I was flying Ultralights, still use it, though not all the time.I actually find it more comfortable than wearing the headset alone. Stays put and spreads the weight out more.
Now, does anyone know of a good visor for the DC helmet? The ball cap type, not the tinted kind.
Phil
I am in total agreement. The technology is nice and, in theory, adds a margin of safety but it is absolutely no replacement for judgment calls on weather and keeping your eyes moving looking for things that you don't want to hit.Yep. And if you can't look out the window and see the terrain, you shouldn't be there...
It's no fun seeing an awesome person and terrific pilot turned into an NTSB report with a bad ending.
aalexander,
Thank you, and well said!! I've been having that conversation with a person who seems to feel he can't leave home without detailed terrain mapping capability in the cockpit.
I remember many years ago, a 108 Super Cub hit a mountain, and amazingly, both occupants survived--barely. They were brothers.
When one awakened from his coma, he was asked who was flying the plane. He responded "My brother". When the other brother awakened, his response to the same question was, you guessed it "My brother".
I really get nervous when folks start getting so hung up on these little bitty screens, trying to pick out every fence post depicted on the moving map.
I may be out there somewhere, and I'd rather they were looking out the danged windows.
I fully agree with your post, and thanks,
MTV
Here is a company based in New Zealand that merkets very good helmets:
http://www.campbellaeroclassics.com/default.asp
No prices are given on the website. I have seen the one that Peter Teichmann wears when he is flying his warbirds. Its well made and according to Peter its very comfortable. This type of helmet looks more appropriate for a Super Cub than say a Gentex in my opinion. I have sent off for details but am still waiting for the letter. I will update when I have the details.
Tony
Nimpo.......ahh, the pesky $$ equation.Bottom line:get what you feel comfortable with and wear it.It is your head and something is better than nothing.(most times anyway).....Herman.
I am a big fan of the David Clark flight helmets. They are reasonably priced and give a lot of protection to the head. Yes! there are better helmets but the David Clark helmet is way better than no helmet and for the recreational pilot I think the David Clark is a good option. . The leather helmets from Tony's post look interesting but it is hard to tell from the photo how much protection they will give. I would like to see one in person or hear a review from some one that has used one
Jerry Jacques
EBAY has lotsa helmets, type in "flight helmets"
Shaken'......Not Stirred
I am interested in the helmet Idea. But not for the potential accident. I am interested in QUIET in the cockpit. 480 hrs last year in the 185, I think the Tinnitus is louder than ever in my ears.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks