Anybody else out there using a .358 Winchester?
Anybody else out there using a .358 Winchester?
I used to in a Browning lever. Kicks on both ends in a light gun. Throws a big wad of lead that drops fast after 100 yards. I shot a deer between the eyes with it, only time I ever saw my father get sick.
I've been using mine for close to 15 years now. Contrary to popular belief, it's really not a short range affair. I've put about a thousand rounds through mine and out to about 350 - 400 yards the drop will be on the same sheet of notebook paper as many faster larger game cartridges. I took mine to Africa in 1995 and slew a fair amount of critters with it - zebra being probably the biggest. I took the zebra at close to 300 yards, for which I apologize, but it was impossible to get any closer due to circumstances. However, it was standing still and pretty much broadside. Most of my other shots with the .358 Win. have been between ten to no more than 250 yards. All-in-all a most underrated cartridge. I was just wondering if any others out there are using it?
Why handicap yourself??? At the very least, ammo is not common to the sparsely populated areas, just in case you need some. And as for bullet drop, better check the good books. You are falling about twice as much as a fast moving projectile, and more than 10 inches at 300 yards.
Handicap? Don't think so. Not for any practical purposes. I've hunted all over the world Asia, Australia, New Zealand, several trips to various countries in Africa, Central & South America, and the states including Alaska and I've used 7mm, .300, and .338 Magnums, amongst others. With the exception of the .338 Win Mag., I don't own them anymore. I've never been, nor even felt, handicapped by standard non-whizbang cartridges. The .308, .30-06, 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, .303 British, .375 H&H, .458 Win. Mag/Lott, 35 Whelen, and .358 Winchester all of which I have in my battery, suit me just fine. However, some people feel the need for more speed. Go for it! A good buddy of mine who personally killed well over a thousand elephants and several thousand buffalo amongst many thousand other animals of various shapes and sizes never felt the need for anything more than 2600 to 2700 fps. To each his own. Anywhere I go where ammo availabilty is a factor, I take a standard caliber. I was just wondering if anyone else is shooting the .358 Winchester?
Why would anyone need to kill a thousand elephants ???
Couldn't eat just one?Originally Posted by jcrowles
As for the rifle, I went to the 30.06 1895 lever and never looked back at the 358 at all.
"Check six" has obviously mistaken supercub.org for his liar's club website.
Well, where do you think all those travel trunks come from?Why would anyone need to kill a thousand elephants ???
Actually, he was a Game Ranger and problem animal control person by the name of Ollie Coltman. He hunted down some very deadly man eaters in his day. He showed me pictures of some of the man eaters and their victims (yuk!).
Kiss off STMAWR14. PUNK. You don't even know me. Everything I have written has been the truth. Go stir the pot somewhere else."Check six" has obviously mistaken supercub.org for his liar's club website
Good choice! One can't go wrong with a .30-06.
If I was limited to just a couple of rifles, one would definitely be a .30-06
"cuz there ain't much a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six" as the poem goes......
Check Six- Atta Boy! I agree with you! Scout, don't you have a nice 358 you custom built?
"Check Six" Put up proof of your "facts" or shut up.
Google "Ollie Coltman" all the facts are there !!!! You guys kiss and make up now dam it or at least fight quietly. Thats what I always tell the 3 yr old and 7 yr old when their fighting !!!Originally Posted by STMAWR14
Wow ! Ollie Coltman was quite the individual. !! Lots of info on him when I googled his name !!!!
Nothing there about him killing a thousand elephants or a thousand of anything else. Post the proof.
Cripes, I didn't realize I was fighting . OK gang, since Ollie is no longer with us and I can't get him to correct me if I was wrong or if I'm remembering what he told me incorrectly (and since it's just too unbelievable for some dweebs who've posted ) And, since I'm out of the country doing other things, I'm going to down grade my post from the original numbers to dozens or maybe to a few if that'll satisfy you. How's that? Satisfied now? (FYI - the guys who don't think I'm BSing - Ollie showed me pictures of close to a dozen problem elephant he shot in one go on the edge of a lake.)
If anyone is interested in an incredible story about Ollie, read "The Pounding" by Jeff Cooper. Amazing. His ribs never mended back together on his side and there was a gap where you cold see his lung expand and contract under the skin.
Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell , also known as Karamojo Bell or WDM Bell-1880 - 1951 was a professional hunter and supposedly had 1,011 elephants to his credit. He is usually listed as the greatest of all elephant hunters.
His books are interesting reading.
He joined a mounted Canadian unit in the last Boer War and managed to be captured and then escape from the Boer forces.
He then stayed on in Africa since getting there was his prime motivation for joining.
He shot many Elephants using head shots, with a 275 Rigby , which is actually a 7x57 mm Mauser with a British name attached.
He wrote The Wanderings Of An Elephant Hunter, in 1923, then Karamojo Safari around 1949,
During the first World War he volunteered again and became a fighter pilot in modern-day Tanzania, then German East Africa. Later he served in France and Greece, and was twice awarded the Military Cross.
In 1940 he assisted in evacuating British and French soldiers
from Dunkirk in his yacht Trenchmere. He died from a heart attack at his
Scottish estate in 1951.
BTW: the 358 Winchester is a good cartridge that never received the right type of marketing.
The 338 Federal is really an attempt at the same market.
Yes indeed I do shoot a custom .358 Winchester made from a 700 action.
I could have gone with any round. Why the .358? It's a short cartridge which makes the action and rifle compact. It can in a pinch take game at medium ranges. It is perfect for my majority of shots; Elk and large whitetail within 75 yards. It throws a large bullet at reasonable velocity. I haven't lost much meat from the devastating results I see with the short magnums and other blast cannons carried by the weekend warriors. I can shoot clover leaf groups at 100 yards with this gun and .308 brass is readily available if I want to reload. If I need more range I take another rifle but for the species I pursue It is my choice for a unique custom rifle.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas Edison
Wait a minute!!
Is that copper residue I see in those rifling grooves????
Drop and give me 50!
I was gonna mention the new 338 Federal. Basically a 338/308, eh? A good idea, I think, comceptually kind of a 358 using better bullets-- assuming that bullets designed for the 338 WM will expand at 338 Fed velocities.
Besides the 275 Rigby, I understand that Karamojo Bell also used the 256 (6.5 x 54). Used solids in both, he was documented as having "shot his thousand".
Hey SCOUT88305, that's one nice rifle!
What's the all-up weight? What loads have you worked up/use?
I've been using handloaded 225 grain Barnes X-bullets right at 2400 fps.
Less meat wastage. Yes. That's one of the reasons I also use the .358 Winchester. To paraphrase Elmer Keith, one can pretty much eat right up to the bullet hole. Plus, I have buckets of once-fired 7.62/.308 Win brass.
I agree, the .338 Federal definitely has merit. Large selection of bullets being one of the biggest reasons. It's not a warp speed whizbang short magnum , so time will tell how well it sells .....or doesn't sell .
From the news desk of the extremely obvious: Elephant skin boots, wallets, Ivory, and other elephant skin products come from killing elephants.
While not the free for all it used to be obviously, it was not uncommon for individual countries in Africa to kill as many as 50,000 elephants per year. Even today, the country of Zimbabwe is scheduled to kill over 330 just for population control in the year 2007. This killing is usually done by paid professional hunters.
As an aide, the company I work for operates out of much of Africa. I have a friend from South Africa who grew up the son of a guide and paid hunter. His gun of choice: 30-06.
50,000? You sure? Now there's something I don't think a lot of people, including me, knew. Wow, that's a lot of elephant.While not the free for all it used to be obviously, it was not uncommon for individual countries in Africa to kill as many as 50,000 elephants per year
Hey, wait a minute! Where's your proof?
"Put up proof of your 'facts' or shut up."
"Post the proof"
(OK, I'll stop.)
In all seriousness, there's a big difference between culling and/or killing problem animals (Coltman) and ivory hunting (Bell). Quite a feat to track down and smite 1,000 bull elephants. Culling, from necessity, usually includes the killing of elephant of both sexes and all age groups.
Ollie Coltman used a .30-06 a lot (but not for shooting elephants). Thought it a great cartridge for gathering meat.
As I said, if could only have a couple of rifles, one would definitely be a .30-06 (my pseudo-Scout).
It's mind boggling for sure, when you are talking about the sheer numbers. 50,000 sounds like a lot, but that is actually on the low side for Tanzania in it's peak before the ivory ban in 1990.
Here's a good article from CNN in the year 2000. Poachers and legitimate game hunters killed at least 100,000 in the year 1989. Many sources put the number that high for several years actually. Very Sad.
Even today, worldwide we are still loosing as many as 23,000 a year by some accounts. Good article about it in scientific American magazine:
I believe the numbers could be that high - I researched it some, not much, but some. Wow . Until your post, I just didn't realize it was that many. Incredible the amount of animals a game ranger/culler/control officier could/would slay back in those days in the course of performing his job.
I was just kidding you about posting proof ...... I was being sarcastic and playing off the posts of the ignorant blankity-blank who butted in with an initial post of a (false) accusation of my telling lies. (Apparently, the was trying to equate my life with his.)
I have been extremely lucky to have worked, traveled, and hunted all over the world, to have acquired a few things - one or two incredible experiences being amongst them - and to have been associated with some true characters, living legends, and heroes. Simply that, nothing more. (I hope this didn't bore ya'll too much. )
Now, could somebody send me a PM with instructions on how to post a picture!
you got to prove to me you actually have a picture first....
Just crackin' on ya.
Try searching for the topic. I think someone here actually posted a how to video.
be sure when you search to use the word 'and' because the following two searches would give very different results:
"how" and "to" and "post" and "picture"
"how to post picture"
The first being more selective to include all terms not just any.
first it needs to be uploaded somewhere to the web and then you need to know the image properties by right clicking on the image. Once you get the properties of the online image then you can paste that property location into the post and surround it with the image tag
something like this;
I read an article about a big game hunter in Africa who only used a 6.5x55, and took many, many elephants with it. Why punish your shoulder when the 6.5 will do the same thing, but with much better ballistics and sectional density? Believe it or not, the little 6.5 IS a long range rifle. The only thing you would give up would be the recoil....and yes, I am a 6.5 fan. I might add that the 6.5 is probably the finest all-round deer cartridge in existence, but don't tell anyone. Energy on the 6.5 pretty much duplicates the .308, EXCEPT the sectional density is so great that the 6.5 easily penetrates what a .308 or 30.06 wouldn't. All this with a soft recoiling, low-pressure round.
Bell used a 6.5 (Mannlicher?) for awhile. Switched to the 7x57 when the long 160 grain 6.5 bullets showed they tended to bend. Major Stigand used a 6.5 too, didn't he?
A buddy and I each took a 6.5 x 55 Norwegian-Swedish to Africa in 2003. Worked great on everything up to and including kudu and blue wildebeest. Not necessarily recommended for these, but it worked just fine. (We also had one other rifle each in a heavier caliber - circumstances.) My rifle of choice for hunting coues whitetail in Arizona is a 6.5 x55. Wasn't drawn in the past couple of years, but in 2004, I scored a very nice buck with it. Finn Aagaard held the 6.5 x 55 (Norwegian to him) in high esteem. I really like my little 6.5 x 55 (built upon a M96 Swedish Mauser). Even so, if I could keep only the 6.5 x 55 or the .30-06, I would have to choose the -06.
Cripes! I'm going to have to get someone who knows about this stuff to help me post some photos.
Modern version of the 6.5 x 55 is the 260 Remington, a necked down 308, it could be described as 6.5 x 51. Main advantage is that it'll work thru a slightly shorter action. Also, as a "modern" cartridge, the ammo companies are maybe not so hesitant to load it up[ a bit. I suspect that the 6.5 x 55 is like the 7 x 57 in that they are commercially under-loaded,due to the many older and maybe questionable rifles out there chambered in those calibers. Similar situation with a couple other good calibers, 45-70 & 45 Colt.
Although I don't have one, I ike the 6.5 calibers. I'd love to have a full-stock 1903 Mannlicher in 6.5 x 54. Ross Seyfried (sp?) wrote an article years ago for Guns & Ammo about having took one to Alaska for back-pack hunting caribou, said it worked great.
So many calibers so little time. I have always stuck with the old proven calibers my most modern caliber of choice is a 7mm mag. I can't express how well it works when shooting longer distance hunting caribou on the open tundra. It has pretty much retired my 30-06. The two guns currently carry in Alaska is the 7mm mag and the 375 H&H. I am interested in trying a 270 I recently came across for sheep hunting.
I have never been interested in any new cartridges until I was introduced to the 458 SOCOM. I have it chambered in an AR15 arguably the most dependable auto available. When hand loading your ammo it has the same ballistics as a 45-70. Thats not to bad considering the gun is 6.5 pounds and the barrel is 18.5" long. Its a real compact unit and should prove to be a wonderful black bear gun over bait. Not to mention whitetail deer or hog hunting I know one individual who took a 2000 pound water buffalo with it and said it performed wonderfully. The advantage of the 458 SOCOM over the 500 bewolf is bullet design. The SOCOM bullet is designed for rifles as the Bewolf bullet design is for large pistols. I have mine all tuned up for spring bear season, pretty excited to give it a try.
Sorry for hijacking your tread.
If you want to know the answer to that question you need to think back to the mentality of society at that time. Why was the American buffalo hunted to near extinction? What happened to the passenger pigeon. Why were wolves basically exterminated from the lower 48? Not to mention elk, antelope, deer and the California grizzly the list goes on and on. That's just in North America and not that long ago. During that time period there was a great slaughter going on to make room for agriculture and ranching there was little room for animals that competed with live stock for food, including migratory or predatory animals. Wild animals also had value for there meat, leather and furs with no thought of conservation whom ever hunter or trapped the best earned the most, it was a respected profession. The world had a different attitude.
Interesting read if you have time pick up The Alaska Wolf Man.