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Any experience w/ Preceptor Aircraft's N3 Pup

D

Don92586

Registered User
Sun City, California
Hello;
Anybody have any experience building or flying Preceptor Aircraft's N3 Pup- An ultralight that looks like a scaled down J3, but has a single seat and uses half a VW motor for power (no electrical- Prop start). Is it to be loved or avoided? See the manufacturers spec. claims here:
http://www.preceptoraircraft.com/index.html
and click on the "N3 Pup" link on the left.
And thanks for your comments. :D
 
N 3 Pup

I owned a N3 Pup few years ago. It was fun to fly. Slower than a J3. My brother has one now. I have flown it several times.
I sold mine because it was too slow to do much with.
I have a 180 hp Super Cub EXP, it is much better, more fun.
 
Some time ago, I looked at a N-3. I did not fly it or see it fly.

I have flown a small kit plane with a completely modified vw engine. I was not impressed. Running full power, I had a constant feeling of being just .5 hp above losing altitude.

Suggest you look at an engine built from the ground up for aircraft, if you are set on the N-3.
 
Does half a VW engine mean that it is half as reliable as a VW, or twice as reliable? Either way, I don't think the statistics look good.
 
Hi Jay;
When you flew that N3, did you feel it was substantially underpowered? My consideration is that to qualify the N3 as an ultralight, CFR14part103 says that it must weighs less than 254 pounds empty weight, and not be capable of more than 55 knots calibrated airspeed at full power in level flight. And I have no problem with the speed limit, but I'd prefer not to run the engine much beyond 75% power for level flight as I am concerned with reliability. Also, are the stats they quote (like useful load, takeoff distance, and stall speed) real?
Please rsvp, Thanks.
 
A friend of mine has a 1/2 vw on his hummelbird. Runs great so far. But maybe he is double lucky, so 1/2 as reliable is ok for him.
 
I met a guy about a year ago who was just finishing a Hummelbird. Hummel (or whoever) told him they flew about like a C150. (right!) He had some 150 time and about 2 hours in a Citabria, so he figured he'd be just fine. Couldn't tactfully tell him different, he didn't want to hear it. Groundlooped it before he even got to the runway, he shoulda quit then. He REALLY twisted it up later supposedly trying a high-speed taxi test.
I'm unimpressed by Hummelbirds, and by half-VW's.

Rooster
 
Preceptor has a good reputation. I can't vouch for the engine, though.
 
n3 PUP

I own & fly an n3 PUP and its about as much fun as you can have with your pants on. What other airplane can a person with a bad back pick up the tail & run with the airplane in tow, burn 1.6/ 1.8 GPH on car gas or avgas with no engine problems. I liked the first one so much I'm building one with nitrous and a whole bunch of other work should be pushing 50/55 HP for take off and still under 2 GPH ,the new one will have flaps, vgs, air dams and hoerner tips,25x12x9 tires and should take off in 100' and land in 100' and if the stars align I would like to fly it from PA to AK and yes it slow, I'm retired !!! Log Cabin Jon
 
DSCF0005 (6).JPGI fly a little single seat Super Cub. What it really is, I bought a wrecked Fisher 202 for the plans. My neighbor has a Fisher Super Koala. The construction is like a Super Koala, except narrowed down to single place, but the dimensions of a Fisher 202 that looks like a Cub. EW-450 LBS, Engine- VW type-1, 1835 CC, 60 HP, Culver 60-26 prop, ROC- 1200+ fpm, Cruise- 80 MPH at 50% power. Climbs at 600 fpm at cruise power. Take-off- 200'. Fuel burn- 3 gph. 28' wing span, 120 sq ft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfrSaQ2PVeA
 

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Log Cabin Jon--- Can I fly to Ak with you,:lol: I'am just a little south of you, and I am also retired. I have a new set of wings about ready to cover with some long range fuel tanks. 2--8 gal tanks and if I need it 4 gal behind the seat. Getting ready to put some big tires on it. Pops
 
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small ultralite plane

I have a friend that has a 180 cessna, a supercub and a 150 cessna. His favorite to fly he told me was the Kit plane he has called a Kitten. He has a blast and cheap to fly. Might want to look at that one also.


Bill
 
My father built a Pup in the mid 90's and flew it quite a bit on wheels, skis, and floats. He installed a 503 in it on a J-3 Kitten mount,( we could not figure out how you could cut a 40 hp VW in half and end up with 35 hp, LOL! ) It also had kitten cowls and a 72" IVO prop. It had aluminum spars, with flaps ( he built four ailerons so that he could use two as flaps ) and Zenair 750 floats. After I bought it I put Ultra Pup landing gear on it ( 3" longer than stock ) and big tires. It cruised at 55 mph and stalled at 25. It was a very nice flying airplane but as stated before it was slow and only carried 5 gals of gas. The pics shows how it looked when I sold it.
My Pup 5.JPG
 

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n3 pup

180Marty said:
Pretty cool looking plane little plane.
Click to expand...

Log Cabin Jon here! My n3 has 22" tires with hyd. brakes modified from a quad to fit inside the 8" wheels if there isn't a any problem with that tire the next tire will be 25"x12"x9",when you the size ratio to a j3 that would make the 25" on the n3 about the same as 33" or 34" on a j3. A lot of designing and machining and welding and more number crunching to making these changes. My weaknesses aren't in design or or building but in flying to Alaska from Pennsylvania hoping to leave spring 2014 need info. on Canada requirements, routes, and the best pass to cross the Rockys, in Canada or lower 48? Any one that has made this trip and is willing to share info.email me at jonhribal@ yahoo.com . Hopeing to get some pictures on here soon of the n3 and I'm always interested to hear or see what others are doing with the n3.
 
I was told by Fisher that they are thinking of putting my little SuperCub out as a kit. Perfect airframe for a 1835-1914 cc, 60-65 Hp VW engine. It would be their Super Koala construction but to the dimensions of the Fisher 202 Koala. I quess it would be called a Koala Super 202. Everytime that I fly it and land, I can't get over how much fun it is to fly. Dan R.
 
I had a super pup with 65hp vw. Loved it crused at 80mph climb was about 1500fpm. i never flew one with the 1/2 vw but herd the performance was not great.Mine came with the 503 and it was o.k but the 1835vw realy brought it to life. I have to credit that plane with my cub affair.
 
N3 pup

cub12 said:
I had a super pup with 65hp vw. Loved it crused at 80mph climb was about 1500fpm. i never flew one with the 1/2 vw but herd the performance was not great.Mine came with the 503 and it was o.k but the 1835vw realy brought it to life. I have to credit that plane with my cub affair.
Click to expand...

Hi, Log Cabin Jon here, I finally figured out how to send pictures on my IPad. The problem is I only know how to send one picture with one message! The problem with the super pup with the four cyl. Is the weight of the engine, extra fuel plus fuel tanks, lead ballast in the tail, etc. You could have added over 100 lbs. I talked to a guy from Canada and he sold his Mosler to get a 4 cyl.VW and was sorry he did so. On my first pup ( air force one) has Mosler 35 hp, low performance, until I added vortex generators this made all the difference. Now the plane is great. Don't forget this is a single place experimental that with the vgs. burns 1.6 gal. of 93 oct. or 100LL at 2600 rpm at under 535 lbs. The vgs. added 10 mph to the cruise decreased the stall speed by 10 mph and increased the by .2 gal.
I,m finishing the new mods. and hope I didn't mess up the flight characteristics by adding parasitic drag and weight. Check it out and let me know what you think! I'll try to send pics. from computer, only can send pic. on email. Sorry!
 
Jon Hribal said:
Hi, Log Cabin Jon here, I finally figured out how to send pictures on my IPad. The problem is I only know how to send one picture with one message! The problem with the super pup with the four cyl. Is the weight of the engine, extra fuel plus fuel tanks, lead ballast in the tail, etc. You could have added over 100 lbs. I talked to a guy from Canada and he sold his Mosler to get a 4 cyl.VW and was sorry he did so. On my first pup ( air force one) has Mosler 35 hp, low performance, until I added vortex generators this made all the difference. Now the plane is great. Don't forget this is a single place experimental that with the vgs. burns 1.6 gal. of 93 oct. or 100LL at 2600 rpm at under 535 lbs. The vgs. added 10 mph to the cruise decreased the stall speed by 10 mph and increased the by .2 gal.
I,m finishing the new mods. and hope I didn't mess up the flight characteristics by adding parasitic drag and weight. Check it out and let me know what you think! I'll try to send pics. from computer, only can send pic. on email. Sorry!
Click to expand...

img-1.jpg
had problems putting the picture in because we use linux, think we figured it out. Log Cabin Jon
 

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Jon Hribal said:
View attachment 9180
had problems putting the picture in because we use linux, think we figured it out. Log Cabin Jon
Click to expand...
2849.jpg
This is the quad 450 Honda hub, wheel, caliper and rotor revamped to fit on the 5/8 inch axle. It took a long time to redesign and machine the caliper and rotor to go inside the wheel and to make all the bushings for the axle and install reservoir under the cowling and new brake pedals and master cylinders inside the plane. Also had custom made stainless steel motorcycle flex hose for hydraulic brakes. Log Cabin Jon.
 

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Jon Hribal said:
I own & fly an n3 PUP and its about as much fun as you can have with your pants on. What other airplane can a person with a bad back pick up the tail & run with the airplane in tow, burn 1.6/ 1.8 GPH on car gas or avgas with no engine problems. I liked the first one so much I'm building one with nitrous and a whole bunch of other work should be pushing 50/55 HP for take off and still under 2 GPH ,the new one will have flaps, vgs, air dams and hoerner tips,25x12x9 tires and should take off in 100' and land in 100' and if the stars align I would like to fly it from PA to AK and yes it slow, I'm retired !!! Log Cabin Jon
Click to expand...

Jon, what is your fuel capacity? are you adding any tanks for the trip? How far can you go with full fuel/
Thanks,
Bob
 
I added 12lbs of lead in the tail when i changed mine over to the 4 cyl. mine also had 2 wing tanks plus the nose tank. I would only use the nose tank if i really had to.Bob if you pm me your email i'll send you some pic's to post. I agree with Jon they are fun easy to handle look nice, i love them. They are cheep to buy and built like a real cub just scaled down.
 
cub12 said:
I added 12lbs of lead in the tail when i changed mine over to the 4 cyl. mine also had 2 wing tanks plus the nose tank. I would only use the nose tank if i really had to.Bob if you pm me your email i'll send you some pic's to post. I agree with Jon they are fun easy to handle look nice, i love them. They are cheep to buy and built like a real cub just scaled down.
Click to expand...

PM sent.
Thank you.
Bob
 
Hi Dan D. Sorry I haven't bin on the site till now to answer everyone. Dan. people that don't know me don't realize the things I do. The trip to Alaska will take all summer & I have at least 10 friends to stop and visit & I never, never push to go in bad weather. Last month I bought another 10 hr. engine to have created & ready to go should I loose an engine. There's at least 10 friends in Alaska I'll be flying with all winter long. Then to AZ to see my daughter & Mike Dillon at Dillon Precision then AL, my son in GA, FL, NC,TN , WV & home. after about 10,000 to 12,000 miles and probably 3 years, if you are up to it and can cruise at 60 mph indicated I'd like to leave spring of 2014.
 
Hi Bob, Air Force Two will have 2-3 1/2 gal. wing tanks and the 5 gal. boot cowl tank, that should give me at least 6 hrs. of fuel with reserve. Air Force Two isn't done yet but should indicate 60 mph with winds aloft I should average 40 mph about 75 hr. flying time to Alaska. There are some more photos in the photos part of the top of this page. Air Force One on skis, & before & after 3rd rebuild.
 
Jon,
That trip sounds awesome in the N-3 Pup.
I am hoping we will be able to follow your journey with posted updates and photos?
Please keep us posted.
Bob
 
Mine went from the 2 cyl vw to a 503 then i swapped it to the 4 cyl vw built by hummel, not had to do but i had to use the ultra pup lg for more prop clearance, at that time i could buy a factory engine mount(not sure if you still can) Also if you have a standard n3 you will need to up grade the boxing cables inside the wings, add the full d-cell leading edge and ultra pup wing struts, essentially turning it into a super pup. some are easier to do then others depending on how it was originally built.
Marc
 
Hi all!
Not to change the subject, but I'm looking at a standard n3 and was wondering if I could fit in the cabin 6'2" 265. I can get a good deal on it. Any way to 'MAKE ROOM'?
Thanks.
 
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