Boots....winter footwear...

[behindpropellers]

So what kind of boots do you wear when it is really cold? Looking for something warm to wear on the snowmachine and when flying on skis...

tired of cold feet...

Tim

[mvivion]

If you want to prevent your feet from freezing, wear Bunny Boots, otherwise known as military surplus Bata vapor barrier boots. Your feet will be cool and clammy in them, though, cause they don't breathe. But if you step through overflow and fill a boot with water at -40, you'll keep your foot alive with em.

Now, if you're just talking "cool" weather, as opposed to serious cold , there's a ton of options.

MTV

[gregory]

Bunny Boots, best all around winter boots. ( at least for cold country)

Greg

[Speedo]

You can buy bunny boots from www.colemans.com.

[CloudDancer]

Since when the Good Lord was passing out feet...I misunderstood and thought He said "who wants a treat?"....I said "can I have two BIG ones God?" . ....and I have been "blessed" with 13 EEE's sinice the end of high school

and since"bunny boots" are oversized to begin with....my one attempt at flying in bunny boots (in a 185) durn NEAR resulted in flipping the damn thing on landing and DID result in a landing rolling displaying all the directional control of an pie-eyed 18 y.o. sailor on a three day pass in the Subic Bay.

Ergo I quickly returned to my previous choice...Carharts (check spelling)

Like bunny boots...they are rubberized outside although NON inflatable.

The KEY (and trick) to WARMTH is these are sold with 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick wool (full) inserts. Buy at least ONE if not TWO extra sets of appropriately sized inserts and rotate daily to ensure complete dryness.
That and warm socks kept me good to at LEAST 25 below.

CloudDancer

[Gary Reeves]

I too found that I could not find my feet and have any feel with my "bunny boots". Now I uses Schnees Extreme with a spare liner in the winter kit. I wear cordura gaitors ourside them too.

They say that they are good to -40 if you are active, but I've only been to about -30 with them.

GR

[cubscout]

When it's REALLY cold, mostly I wear elkskin slippers, and stay inside.

Thanks. cubscout

[JP]

If you want something you can comfortably fly in and stay warm, you'd be hard pressed not to beat the Maine Hunting Shoe from LL Bean. Get them with the thinsulite liners and they are really warm. They also have them with a gore tex liner. I don't use either, I just wear wool socks and keep the leathers treated with rubbed in beeswax.

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/sto...feat=501665-tn

I have a basic pair of Bean Boots that my Dad bought in the 60s and my pair (out being resoled for the fourth time at Beans--neat service) from 1986. Both are 10". Bean Boots aren't cumbersome and they are comfortable to fly in. You still have a lot of feel.

[Gary Reeves]

JP,

I used to wear LL's until I found Schnees

http://www.schnees.com/catalog/mens/...-weather-boots
/p_sc-510103.html

Take a look.

GR

[JP]

Say, those Schnee Extremes look pretty nice. Those would definitely keep your feet warm. The soles are pretty beefy. On a traditional Bean Boot they are not, which is kind of why I like them because of the tactile feel when flying. And then there is the consideration of getting in and out of the front seat of a PA-11.

Of course, we don't see the extreme cold you have and usually get only 3-5 nights a year where it goes down well below zero. If I were going to be out in Alaska type cold on a regular occasion I'd want a beefier boot like the Schnee.

Growing up in Maine in the snowy 60s and 70s was quite interesting. We had a lot of snow and cold. But it was the age before thinsulite, so our outdoor gear was pretty bulky and difficult to manuever around in, especially when you are a little kid. It took a lot of energy.

One of the hazards was "getting stuck", which used to happen to kids on occasion and an adult would have to be summonsed to pull the poor kid straight up out of a snow hole. I also pitied our parents having to get us dressed and undressed out of bulky snowsuits, etc.

It wasn't much better to be a teenager in the late 70s and early 80s--ever try to impress a woman when you're wearing a down jacket that makes you look like the Michelin Man?

Thinsulite and polarfleece definitely improved things and winter clothing got a lot less bulky in a hurry. Still, when I work on the family maple sugaring operation in the spring I wear wool socks, traditional Bean Boots, wool pants, logging shirt, suspenders, fingerless wool gloves and a ratty old wool sweater. I stay dry and warm all day.

[harneymaki]

Here is what I like http://www.mukluks.com/yukon.shtml

Moose hide bottoms with Cordura uppers. They feel like slippers and are warm as heck. You can get them extra wide if you need the room for layering. I'm contemplating getting a set of Gor-tex liners made up for them and then they will totaly water proof although I haven't had a problem yet. I just use silicon water proofer on the moose hide. I've lovingly nick named them "Yuppie Moon Boots".

[Widebody]

http://shoeking.com/c0069.html

Scroll down to the Style#- Acton- Explorer.
They have 2 different pairs, one is rated to -103 F
I own a pair of the ones rated to -50 F and they aren't kidding.
These are the only boots that would keep my feet warm while I was roughnecking during the cold ass winters of ND.
Your feet will be wet from the heat generated, but truly warm.
I wear them while on the ice also, just standing around at -20 plus,
feet never get cold and I can FLY just fine with them. Should be good for a sled also.
Bunnys are fine but clumsy as all hell. You can't drive a car let alone a fly a plane, nice job on the Landing CD.
Just my experience, I'm not saying these are the only good boots.

[Grant]

I love my Bean's.

[Brian Thompson]

I found a woman named Sophie, near the Arctic Circle who made caribou leg mukluks with moose hide soles. I used Sorrel style felt inserts inside. Nothing better. Very light. It feels like you are bare foot, but warm.

A Beaver hat and mitts will complete your outfit. Hundereds of thousands of years in R and D. Can't be beat.

Brian Thompson
exploreaviationLLC.com

[aalexander]

Here's what I wear when it's really cold.


http://secure.northlandmarine.com/Ba...sBarrow05.html

I've worked outside in the Arctic using both these and bunny boots, and I think these are warmer than bunny boots. Better for flying too. Proabably won't perform as well as bunny boots if you fill them up with water though.

[Siwash]

While one guy freezes his you know what off at plus 20 degrees F another one got to get stuff done at minus 50 F. A manufacturers temp rating is utterly useless, I found out the hard way, or should I say the cold way? Schnees, Kenetrecks, Hoffmans and others don't cut it for me.

I am with aalexander, Bunny Boots with OR gaitors or Baffins. If my feet are happy, I am happy!

Si

[TrapAK]

If you buy bunny boots, make sure they are 'bata'. All other are inferior. Buy one size too big, and use felt insole. Swap out insoles with totally dry ones the next day.
I have heard that Cabelas has some 2000 gram thinsulate rubber boots that work well. Just don't let the overflow creep over the top!

[aalexander]

While one guy freezes his you know what off at plus 20 degrees F another one got to get stuff done at minus 50 F. A manufacturers temp rating is utterly useless, I found out the hard way, or should I say the cold way?

Yeah, at best a temp rating might be useful for comparing different boot models from the same manufacturer.

[Jerry Gaston]

Are you guys calling bunny boots the felt boot or the rubber boot. I spent one winter in the south pole and we had both the felt boot called the "bunny boot" and we had the white rubber boot with the air valve on the side. We loved the rubber white boots which also came in black. The Russian Scientist said that "you Americans don't know anything about cold winter clothes but you do have the best boot made "white rubber micky mouse boots"

[hottshot]

I ride in my Danners or I think I am gunna try a pair of the new Trukee boots


http://www.snogear.com/trukkethunder...obileboots.htm

[Seaworthy]

Mukluks-----not trade name---just generic

Quite a few years ago I had occasion to work with the Canadian 22nd
Reg (Vingt-Deux) out of CFB Valcartier, Quebec. We would be living in the snow for about two weeks----the Canadians do it every year---they call it "Operation Nez Rouge" . The Canadians looked at our cold weather gear (including the white Mickey Mouse boots) and said you won't last twenty four hours out there with that stuff. So we were issued Canadian infantry parkas, mitts, pants and "mukluks". The mukluks ---I traded for a pair and still have them---and my mitts-----anyway the mukluks have a rubber bottom and a very loose fabric side that goes from ankle to almost to the knee. There is a a double felt insole that has to be an inch and a half thick and a double wool sock that goes over your foot ------on top of the wool sock that you already have on. After you get that stuff on the boot has very long laces that gather all the material around your foot and leg. You can lay down and sleep in the snow at -30F and stay nice and warm. When you walk around your feet actually get hot. The wool and the fabric sides of the mukluk allow the water vapor to escape and your feet are nice and warm and DRY. I have never seen anything like them here in the lower 40 since and that was thirty years ago. The mitts are terrific too ---they go all the way up to the elbow and there is a trigger finger on the right mitt. As far as flying in that stuff-----not enough room up front in my PA-12 with big boots----I can't even imagine trying to do it in an 18.
A good heater is a blessing.

[Siwash]

Good point Seaworthy! An extraordinary Cub pilot from Fairbanks, Marty, told me that he uses mukluks on his trap line, he loves them! To me the white bunny boot is the do-everything boot, from cutting fire wood to trapping to snow shoeing.

Joe Reddington, Susan Butcher and Ray Genet climbed Mount McKinley in '79 wearing bunny boots.

Crash; point well made! I buy your story any day!

This is somewhat unrelated to the initial boot question, but stories of endurance, perseverance and will-power amaze and humble me. To mind come three books I just pulled off the shelf.

"Shadows on the Koyokuk" by Sidney Huntington, as told to Jim Reardon (An Alaskan native's life along the river). Sidney is Jim's brother who wrote a pretty darn good book himself.

"Ada Blackjack" by Jennifer Niven (True story of survival in the arctic).

"Bering" by Orcutt Frost (The Russian discovery of America).

My hat's off to all who endure and brave the cold in whatever capacity. If you know of a good book you think I should add to my cabin library, feel free and pm me.

Best, Si

[AkPA/18]

Si---here is one for you. You just have to get it. Absolutely amazing story and well written.

http://www.amazon.com/Minus-148-Degr.../dp/0898866871

Mark

[mvivion]

Seaworthy,

Mukluks are pretty common and come in somewhat varying, but very similar design. The Athabaskans used moosehide bottoms, with caribou leggings, nowadays they use canvas. Those boots rely on lots of insulation to keep your feet warm, and they'll do that at very cold temperatures, no doubt. The problem comes when they get damp or worse, wet. As long as you can take care of them, and dry the liners out and keep em clean, they work very well.

But, step into a foot of overflow, or into a creek, and you now have an immediate need to build a fire, strip the boot off, and dry it out next to the fire. If you don't, you will freeze your foot.

The US Army has issue mukluks that are pretty nice for this sort of stuff, and have a good grip sole as well. They have canvas tops. Nice boots, and they are comfortable.

Same problem, though--get a foot wet and you HAVE to get them off and get them dry. And pretty fast.

With Bunny Boots, the all rubber Bata boots, with the air valve on the sides, are cool and clammy boots to wear, but you won't freeze your feet in them, even if they fill up with water.

When I attended the AF Cold Weather Survival School at Eielson AFB in 1987, the instructors would not permit a student to go into the field portion of the school (three days out) wearing anything but Bunny Boots. They had had some Army types freeze feet in mukluks, apparently. We stayed out at -35 to -40 and the white boots did fine.

I've stepped in water well over these boots in cold, and just dumped em out and continued about my business.

I'm fortunate (depending on how you look at it I guess) to have very small feet. The Mickey Mouse shoes work fine for me. As to tactile feel, I know a LOT of helicopter pilots who wear the things, and I'm guessing "feel" is pretty important on helicopter pedals. I'm such a clod that they never really offered much disadvantage, I guess .

MTV

[JP]

Bulky boots would never let you do this....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU

[Seaworthy]

Just as an aside and speaking about extremely low temperature and the military. When we finally got out in the boondocks in a Canadian truck convoy, I was amazed when they started setting up the "canteen truck",. The canteen trucks conatined the beer. At the rear of the trucks they set up "warming trays"--- large pans of heated water that thawed the beer and kept it from freezing. After the beer was thawed you had to drink it pretty quickly before it refroze. In the morning, many of the Canadiens made a big steaming canteen cup of "gin chaud" or hot gin. They took an equal part of "alcool" which is 98% grain alcohol and hot water with a large spoon of honey. Alcool will not freeze no matter how cold it gets so you gotta be real carefull that you warm it up to about thirty five degrees before you drink it because you can get a freeze burn from it. When it does go down it still burns then lights you on fire----it's like getting kicked. The Canadiens could drink it without impunity. The Newfies
(Newfoundlanders) drink home brew called screech rum-------it's another
type of almost pure alcohol and they put it in mason jars and take it out to sea while fishing! It's mind boggling. Wonder if Wibur has discovered this stuff or tried it in the Margarita machine?

[mvivion]

I did a turn in Hong Kong, hull inspections on ships. The Brits were always willing to share their "Tot O Rum". Boy, you had to watch that deal, or get pretty sloshed whilst working.

MTV

[N5126H]

The diff between white and black Beta Bunny Boots is 10 degrees. The black ones have one less layer of felt between the rubber bottoms. Talk and discuss all you want, I have lived in the cold all my life. I own 12 pairs of white bunny boots, six of them the same size. Buy them in the normal size you wear, do not wear heavy socks. I do not take anyone flying with me in the winter who at least does not bring bunny boots along. I wear mine flying the cub and do not have any problems with foot control.
There is no question, white beta bunny boots are the best because they have been proven time and time and time again in any condition you can think about.

[55-PA18A]

I also have to vote for the white, Bata Bunny Boots. I attended the Air Force "Cool School" that Mike Vivion mentioned about 1979. No way they were going to let you go out for the field portion with anything but Bunny Boots. They work, and for all the reasons listed by everyone else.

They may be clumsy and heavy, but when bad things start happening, you can count on them (if they're in good condition). I fly with them, but most of my winter flying is on skis, so finding the brakes isn't an issue.

Anyone remember the "Bunny Boot Ballet" postcard ??

Jim

[harneymaki]

Can a pair of size 13 bunny boots even fit under the panel of a Super Cub let alone feel the rudder pedals? I won't even ask about the brakes. Best thing since sliced bread? More than likely they are but for those of us that have big feet I don't think they are an option in a Cub.( maybe in the baggage for emergency use)

[Siwash]

Mark

That sure looks like a terrific book! I put it on my list! Thanks for the info.

Si

[TrapAK]

Don't forget to make sure the valve on your bunny boot is CLOSED. If water gets inside, they will never be the same. I know guys that 'shoe goo' theirs shut cause in a cub pressure isn't an issue. I am going to goo mine shut before my next outing as the temps have risen lately. Last week, at the end of the line, I noticed one boots valve was open. I specifically tightened them before I headed out. They are new and just backed off.

[kase]

Ive been wearing bunny boots 30+ years. Never had cold feet or a problem flying.

back in the day

[Ursa Major]

In response to Harneymaki:

Yep My Bunny boots are size 13 and I fly in them, but usually on skis without the need for brakes. 'Course there are those that say with the way I fly it wouldn't matter whether I could use the rudder pedals or not. The results are pretty much the same.

Bunny boots have lots of faults, but the benefits (not freezing your feet) far outweigh the downsides. I've had cold feet in lots of other boots, but the bunny boots always worked.

[N5126H]

Your right Harneymaki, go ahead, wear whatever you want, and let the meds cut your black lifeless stubs to a neat size 7 R. I'm sure you won't feal the brakes even then. Real men cannot wear condoms, bunny boots nor ask directions.

[RedBaron]

Sometime back in the 80's our leaky plastic boat sank us up to our waists in water in the Tonsina river trying to cross over to check my marten boxes...it was about minus 45 F and of course I got really wet; and my carhartt overalls froze I think pretty much instantly. I thought sure my feet were goners too as I had surely felt my bunny boots fill with water; but everything they'd told me was true, those big awkward things that I hated cuz they were too heavy saved my freakin toes; the only thing I lost was some hair peeling the frozen longjohns off. Bunny boots are the best I think; but if you get water inbetween the layers then get some new ones.

RB

[harneymaki]

N5126H, I wasn't picking on them. Like I said, I'm sure they are the best thing going. ( I was asking a honest question mixed in with my sorry attempt at humor. ) So what i'm getting from you is the pros of bunny boots out weigh the cons, eh? I was just concernd about the overall size of the boots that I need for my rather large feet and the ability to fuction with them in a Cub.

[gregory]

For my life style, I 'll take the bulky ol bunny boots over any thing. Its a simple matter of frozen feet that can lead to big trouble, or good ol bunny boots that keep me from worring about my feet, and let me worry about the overflow im stuck in or the fact that my snow go just died and Im 50 miles from home. And its -40.
I have nothing against any other boots that have been listed, but Im not willing to put my butt ( or feet) on the line to find out how good they are not.
They may not be for everyone, but they are for me.

Greg

[Gary Reeves]

One of the photos shows a black boot. I thought that everyone using the term "bunny" boot was talking about what I call a Mickey Mouse Boot, which are white since they were developed for our troops in Korea.


Are they different?


GR

[sharp]

Black versions were made for a limited time.