Empty Weight? how are the Smith-18's coming out?

[Dave Calkins]

I'm wondering what some finished empty weights are for the Smith kits.

I've got a set of wings here that feel like the weight of a Cessna wing, and am worried she's gonna be a fatty

Any comments are appreciated DMC

[CptKelly]

I personally know of a 0-360 Smith Kit that has all the bells and whistles. It weighs more than 1300 pounds. However, my very light Smith, with a XP-360 and wood Sensenich prop weighs less a lot less than 1200 pounds, and I'm really enjoying it.

Mike

[supilot]

my uncle's is 1350 with bells and whistles, extended wing, aux tanks etc

[Brent Bostwick]

My friends came in at 1256. He has an O-360 with a Panee prop. Light weight floorboards and does NOT have the extended metal leading edges.

Mine will be done in a couple of months and will let you know. I do have the extended metal leading edges.

Brent

[vanillanut]

If you don't mind me asking,

how long did it take to build?
was it harder than recovering a Cub
how much do you have invested in the kits and parts?

are you glad you bought a Smith kit instead of a PA18 project?

Thanks

[Cubus Maximus]

the Viking Cub came out to: 1355 ouch!

His excuse is that he didn't need the extra performance because he didn't live in Alaska anymore (had light 18's and an 11 when he lived in Wasilla) and wanted to be comfortable. So he loaded up the interior, panel, L-21 glass, lots of paint, extra seaplane door on the left side, put the auxillary 10 gallon tanks and fuel pumps in the wings, extra lights. extended wings and the 180 engine/dynafocal mount still has the heavy Bendix starter etc etc... But after it was finished regretted not being more careful. (Notice how I try to escape blame for the weight myself...

I must say it still flies nice (sorry Nanook, I should have said, "flies great") and gets off short cublike manner despite the weight but I would rather have had the stock wing versus the extended wing with all the junk in them.

Rarely have to touch the trim with the Thrustline mod. Pulling the flaps when landing has no effect on pitch forces like I find in Cubs without the Thrustline.

No real regrets (other than the extra fuel tanks and pumps - have used them but not worth the weight penalty) and would do a Smith again in a heartbeat. I really like the airplane and it comes with all the little parts you need.

I'd like to do another one on my own and go with this:

Stock width body L-21 with the seaplane door.
Spare interior and minimal instruments (you don't need anything other than a Garmin 2 or 396)
Stock length wing with bow tips (could possibly look at a slotted wing)
O-360 (but probably a OX-340)
26 inch Bushwheels on Grove 6 inch wheels.
Aeroski R2800's for winter

next on the list would be amphibs. I kinda' like the new PK though Wip of course would give me a disdainful look ha ha!

[cafi19]

Vanillanut,

I've ordered the Smith from Turbine Cubs of WY 2 months ago. They've been great to deal with up to this point. If you have questions, call Joel.
He's very knowledgeable and accessible. And lets not forget patient!!! I've thrown out some pretty silly questions!!! Also, they are working on an assembly manual. I should be a pretty good test case for ease of use. Will keep you posted when both kit and manual arrive.

turbinecubs.com

Laura

[Brent Bostwick]

My kit arrived in June of '02. Full time job, kids, dog and of course my lovely wife rendered a part time build pace.

I recently retired (whatever that means - for awhile anyways) and in August this year I began covering. It took me up until that point to be ready to cover. Let me say also this is the first time I have ever built anything so divide my times by two and you might have an accurate time table. So, since August working 5 days a week, 9 - 5 the cub is covered, painted white, wings have red accent trim and I am now painting (and sanding and repainting) the metal parts (lift struts etc.). Engine shows up Monday, prop arrived Friday and I think I have all misc stuff to bolt together. I estimate now to be within a two month window.

Regarding the Smith Kit... Nic's work is great. He is super to deal with but usually talk to Steve Tubbs with questions. I bought mine through Steve and he is REALLY great to deal with.

If you pay yourself nothing (and pay the taxes on that) for the time spent building and add up what you paid for the Kit, O-360, parts and a lot of parts you thought you needed but ended up not needing I think you are in for about $100,000... maybe $95,000.

If you subtract out the fun, challenge and reward of building I think I got it all back and then some.

If I were to do it again I think I would try a rebuild as you will end up with a certified Cub for probably the same money but I certainly don't regret in any way my decision to build the Smith Cub... I am very very excited to get her in the air!

Hope this helps.

Brent

[Bill Rusk]

Dave

Like certified cubs they tend to be all over the chart, weight wise. The Smith/ TCOW site list one completed at 1050, several in the 1100's and from there on up. It seems that a lot of folks building these things want all the bells and whistles and as a result some are pretty portly. The Dual door mod adds weight as does the 70 gallon fuel set up, as does the dynafocal and 180 hp with a correspondingly heavier prop. Etc.
I am still plugging along so can't give any numbers but I am trying to keep it light. We will see how it compares when she is done.


http://www.supercubkits.ca/

Go to customer photos and it shows some with weights.

Hope this helps.
Bill

[Dave Calkins]

Thanks for the great answers guys.

The wings appear to be absolutely beautiful in workmanship. I mean this, and I am one of those guys who's good at finding error!

But, those are some heavy wings.

Anyone done the extended wing but without the aux fuel or extended LE skin??

I wonder where the extra weight is?? They sure ain't no -18 or -11 wing!!!

Thanks again for the replies. DAVE

[kase]

Dave, weigh a wing and let us know what it is.

[Bugs66]

We have numbers for stock wing weights in this thread:
http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=9990

I still need to weigh my D&E wing.

Update: weighed D&E wing panel. 88 lbs with 20gal tank, lid, square tip, and landing light assy.

[Dave Calkins]

I'll weigh a wing next week sometime.

[Bill Rusk]

Dave

I will try to weigh one also. Mine have the 24 gal tanks and I do not have the extended Leading edges. They are covered and in primer, however. They also have the wires for lights, pitot lines etc.

Bill

[T Willson]

Did anyone ever get around to weighing one of the Smith wings?
Thanks, Tim

[Dave Calkins]

Yes, I weighed one.

One end weighed 60, the other end weighed 40.

Add 17 pounds for the fuel tank I had already removed. Add the weight of two fuel tank covers.

......she's heaaaavvvvyyyy. But she's got a pretty face...I mean the workmanship is grade A. I guess that sheet metal and extra fuel tank add up quick?

[cubflier]

Dave,

I assume it was covered. Was this with aileron and flap? Is the Smith wing square or round tipped.

Jerry

[Bill Rusk]

Weighed my wings. They are covered and in primer. Includes tank, (24 gal), tank cover, wiring, and pitot plumbing. Does not include the wing tip light or mount but does include the aeroflash strobe box in each wingtip. So you will need to add color paint and about 1 pound for the wingtip light assembly. Also does not have extended leading edges. Does not include flaps or ailerons. Will weigh those tomorrow if I have time.

Right wing (no landing light) 104 pds
Left wing (with landing light) 109 pds

If I think about it in the future I will weigh again after paint etc.

Bill

[Dave Calkins]

I weighed this wing minus flap and aileron and bare without covering or primer. I'm surprised.

I suppose the fuel transfer pump weighs a bit also.

It's an extended square tip with 3-hanger flaps and the long- 4-hanger ailerons. Like I said.......... Didn't weigh it with the controls on there.

Has extended leading edge skins.

Oh, PS, it's a PA-12 replica wing, so add the weight of the aileron belcrank and belcrank support.

All of it very nicely made pieces.

[Dave Calkins]

PS, Jerry, if you're on skis, take a break from the money printer and zip on down to Campbell lake and see this girl.

Paul and I are seeing the beauty of working on an experimental. A guy can use his brain and make something that does what he thinks it oughtta.....and heck, if I wanna move a pulley bracket or weld in a new tube......I simply do it and don't ask the fuzz first.

I'm getting used to this deal reeeeeaallllll easy!

DAVE

[cubflier]

PS, Jerry, if you're on skis, take a break from the money printer and zip on down to Campbell lake and see this girl.

Paul and I are seeing the beauty of working on an experimental. A guy can use his brain and make something that does what he thinks it oughtta.....and heck, if I wanna move a pulley bracket or weld in a new tube......I simply do it and don't ask the fuzz first.

I'm getting used to this deal reeeeeaallllll easy!

DAVE

I will take you up on that. I'm sitting on the ledge of going experimantal with my upcoming project and I'm just looking for a shove.

Jerry

[Dave Calkins]

Go exp.!! nice thing is you can start with certified parts if you like, so you know the strength is there, but you can go ahead and modify the function of the piece.

Not talking about the wings, but some of the stuff I'm seeing on this kit is definitely NOT up to certed Cub standards, but I suppose it's okay for flight, but maybe not for extra heavy duty usage.

I guess I'm surprised to see that some of the stuff is mild steel, or some of the tube wall thicknesses don't seem to mimic the certed. part it's supposed to replicate, or some of the pulley bracket alignments aren't as good as I'd make 'em if I was buidling/repairing a damaged certed. Cub.

Also, whenever someone wants to argue whether an exp. kit or certed. kit is a better value.........I believe you get what you pay for. An exp. kit Cub is simply not as well put together as certed./PMA'ed Cub parts. The Smith wings are very nicely put together, however.

Anyway, yes, grab a beater Cub project and build it up experimental.

[Flying Miss Daisy]

I was just looking at the AOPA magazine last night with the article on the A1B 200 and it appears the empty weight has increased to 1320#. With the increased fuel capacity adding 300#s the final usable has dropped to a claimed 380#. If I owned a Husky my dog would need to loose a few pounds. John

[Shaun T]

Performance air has built a few. Wide body two doors are weighing in at 1205. Another one that is a narrow bodied two door has alot of paint but i believe it was 1210 or something like that.