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Thread: Your opinions of the Super Cubs future

  1. #41
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Tons of younger people flying. Their just flying RJs for Skywest .
    I'm talking about general aviation, aka personal flying, aka "flying for fun".
    Maybe those young airline pilots will take up GA as they get a little older and have some disposable income.
    But maybe not -- to lots of people, it's just a job.
    IMHO, when you turn a hobby into a job, sometimes the fun goes out of it.
    After all, there's a reason why they have to pay us to go to work.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  2. #42
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    I went to a CubCrafter's open house maybe around ten years ago. I remember they had the original Carbon Cub prototype there and were producing the S2 Sport Cub which everyone got rides in. I thought the Carbon Cub was crazy expensive and would only be built in limited numbers but a couple of weeks ago I went to the High Sierra Fly-in and couldn't believe how many of them I saw there along with enough of everything else to lead me to believe the rumors of the death of general aviation are, once again, greatly exaggerated.

    I've always wanted a Supercub since I was about 14 years old but I've never really "needed" one and life's other demands always got in the way but now I'm in a position where I can get one and I see decent examples of fairly stock SC's for around 80, give or take 10k. So if anyone is interested just wait until after I buy mine at which point prices will likely tank - LOL
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  3. #43
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    Your opinions of the Super Cubs future

    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I'm talking about general aviation, aka personal flying, aka "flying for fun".
    Maybe those young airline pilots will take up GA as they get a little older and have some disposable income.
    But maybe not -- to lots of people, it's just a job.
    IMHO, when you turn a hobby into a job, sometimes the fun goes out of it.
    After all, there's a reason why they have to pay us to go to work.
    We are out here. Somewhere.

    It is very easy to go from a hobby to a job, and loose the fun. Get a few a hole customers in a row and you end up with a motorcycle pretty quick.


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  4. #44

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    For all the interest in getting an original SC and seeing how the market has remained strong for decades. I wonder how many Execs at Piper wish they had kept production alive. I find it hard to believe they could not have found a way to make a profit through the past years.
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  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    I went to a CubCrafter's open house maybe around ten years ago. I remember they had the original Carbon Cub prototype there and were producing the S2 Sport Cub which everyone got rides in. I thought the Carbon Cub was crazy expensive and would only be built in limited numbers but a couple of weeks ago I went to the High Sierra Fly-in and couldn't believe how many of them I saw there along with enough of everything else to lead me to believe the rumors of the death of general aviation are, once again, greatly exaggerated.

    I've always wanted a Supercub since I was about 14 years old but I've never really "needed" one and life's other demands always got in the way but now I'm in a position where I can get one and I see decent examples of fairly stock SC's for around 80, give or take 10k. So if anyone is interested just wait until after I buy mine at which point prices will likely tank - LOL
    As I read through this thread, I was thinking the same thing! Aviation is alive and well, especially with the younger generation! I'm in my late thirties and most of the people that I fly with make me look old! And they aren't just flying C172's, these "kids" are heavily invested in aviation. The High Sierra Fly In is a great example of young people on the cutting edge of general aviation.
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  6. #46
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    As for my original question back in 2006....

    I think the recreational Super-Cub craze opened the door for various experiment outfits like StewartB was mentioning.
    Cub Crafter's and Dakota Cub's semi-stock looking Cubs, the Carbon Cubs and the Backcountry ( Mackey) SQ2

    While the market still has a bunch of 80 to 100 thousand dollar real Piper Super Cubs, the super expensive tricked out versions seem to be mostly (OTP) other than Piper. Note: Oddly enough there seem to be a few of the old Huskys out there for around 90 to 100K as well.

    I have also seen a steady increase in the prices of the other Cubs..... The PA-11s, both original and from converted J3s are now very popular and have increased in price from $30,000-$35,000 planes back in 2006 to 50K aircraft. The same for PA-12s , with bush modified 12s now bringing steep prices..

    And the sales ads now have $90K Kitfoxes and RAN-7s. WOW.....

    The old Maules like the M4s and M5s have crept up in price, in what I think is a spill-over from the Super Cub craze. Followed by the pretty cool BearHawk experimental....

    Now I am wondering if we will see a craze to restore Super Cubs to their original factory like configurations and be flown as Classic Cubs to fly-ins....??
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  7. #47

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    Experimental, amateur-built, Cub derivatives are the future, each available with SC performance at fraction of the price. I've owned the Cubs and Cessna 180-185s for work and pleasure until regs, back-orders, supplier gouging, spotty maintenance drove me to my senses (far too late) to do it myself with generous assistance from friends.
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  8. #48
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    The older you are, the harder it is to become accustomed to these current prices. When I was learning to fly a good licensed Aeronca 7AC or J-3 went for $1000. A Porterfield $800. I paid $400 for my first plane, a BC-12D which had been damaged. Fixed it up, kept it hangared and flew it 230 hours in one year then sold it for more than my total investment of $1000.
    N1PA
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  9. #49
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    Exactly right Pete. Age changes perspective.

    The first skiboat I purchased personally in 1992 was just shy of 15k, brand new. Picked it up at the factory in FL. A 2018 version of the same boat, to do the same thing, retails over 100k and might be bought in the 75-80k range. That's something I can't justify, afford, or make any sense of. But yet there are even more buyers and families that purchase bigger, badder wakeboats in the 120-150k range. And the worst part is I've sold a few of those, and still can't purchase an airplane in that price range.

    lol.... Somewhere I've not kept up with the times.

  10. #50
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    I like to use one of the online inflation calculators to augment my perspective. For instance, $100,000 today was about $11,000 in 1960. But even us old guys don’t necessarily retain the sense of how much eleven grand was back then. I think my parent’s first house was probably around that price.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    I like to use one of the online inflation calculators to augment my perspective. For instance, $100,000 today was about $11,000 in 1960. But even us old guys don’t necessarily retain the sense of how much eleven grand was back then. I think my parent’s first house was probably around that price.
    In 1960 the price of a new PA-18 was about $11,000. Why is it now about three times inflation?
    N1PA
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  12. #52

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    One time, a million $$s in your accounts was a big deal. Now, buying a new Carbon Cub, for example, would take $500,000 in Canadian $$s taxes and exchange paid. Wow. Indeed there are more pilots now then ever with very deep pockets or no problem with big loans on small planes. It’s good to see high priced cubs etc., because it leaves good breathing room for other manufactures to build and market aircraft as capable or even more so in some cases, for less money which gets the attention of even more pilots.
    All good as long as the economy is marching along. Will be a different story when it take a breather though.
    Roddy

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    One time, a million $$s in your accounts was a big deal. .
    Millionaires are a dime a dozen nowadays.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Exactly right Pete. Age changes perspective.

    The first skiboat I purchased personally in 1992 was just shy of 15k, brand new. Picked it up at the factory in FL. A 2018 version of the same boat, to do the same thing, retails over 100k and might be bought in the 75-80k range. That's something I can't justify, afford, or make any sense of. But yet there are even more buyers and families that purchase bigger, badder wakeboats in the 120-150k range. And the worst part is I've sold a few of those, and still can't purchase an airplane in that price range.

    lol.... Somewhere I've not kept up with the times.
    I've never been able to keep up with the times. I'm just astounded at prices of things like boats.

    Which is why I built a 20 foot wooden power dory run by a small outboard. Total cost, including new engine, was less than $5000. My wife and I have been out on the water around 110 times since its January 2017 launching.

    I have a friend who bought a $90k jet boat about the same time. He's been out 7 times since then.

    Some of these things don't compute, at least to me.

    Vic

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    In 1960 the price of a new PA-18 was about $11,000. Why is it now about three times inflation?
    Garmin

  16. #56
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    One component that contributes to increased end costs are the passthrough expenses from parts suppliers. At one time Piper and others made most of their stuff in-house from raw materials. If not they walked down the street to a hardware store or auto dealer among others for needed items.

    Over time planes have had accidents and juries have awarded wrongful death settlements in the millions. Who's going to pay for that if a part not factory produced and covered by their general liability insurance is implicated? Soon parts suppliers add some or more insurance which gets passed on to the aircraft buyer.

    There's more to it of course including labor rates, employee insurance, and benefits. Overhead and debt service is expensive and then there's that insurance deal again. Plus building and selling aircraft is a for-profit enterprise. I'm sure outside investors looking to buy a TCDS, STC, or PMA enabled product first look at the balance sheets and their trends, so having them show positive results supports a future sale of the business.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-09-2018 at 12:40 AM.
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  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Millionaires are a dime a dozen nowadays.
    Not likely. There are many “pretend” ones. There are a few “real” ones. (Those ones often aren’t known). And, there are multitudes trying find one more dime to feed their family.
    Those who are recreational aircraft owner are incredibly fortunate.
    Roddy
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  18. #58
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    Times have changed from when a teenager earning $25 per week could afford to own and fly a 65 hp T-craft.[/QUOTE]

    Couple local boys signed on this summer to the road job, 80 hour weeks at $35 plus benefits, to start out.

    it is not the capital cost keeping youth out, as said before it might be the commitment, but we are also still having the repercussions of the industry having lots of furlough pilots out there, and wage cuts. United Airlines did not do anyone favors when they took the retirement from the employees.

    Also, many airports you can not go near because of the security fences. Hard to get kids interested if they have to stand outside and look through chain link. Private airparks are often gated also... how do you get folks enthused if they can not be a part of the activity?

    Steve is correct, everyone wants to start at the top level of planes, but there are lots out there much more cost effective to fly.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  19. #59
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    [QUOTE hotrod180} Millionaires are a dime a dozen. [/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    Not likely. There are many “pretend” ones. There are a few “real” ones. (Those ones often aren’t known). ….
    I'm reminded of the Austin Powers movie, when Dr Evil suggests a million dollar extortion plan...
    Number Two
    : "Don't you think we should ask for *more* than a million dollars? A million dollars isn't exactly a lot of money these days."

    A million bucks just isn't really that much money anymore.
    A lot of "ordinary people" own homes that are worth that much, in Seattle and LA suburbs anyways.
    Blue-collar workers in skilled trades can make close to 100 in several parts of the country.
    And most of the upper-level public agency managers in my small town are paid well over $100K a year.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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