poly-tone vs aerothane

which paint to use in repainting supercub? looking for comments

If you are going to use aerothane there is no room for error. Also you need a fresh air system. Polytone is easy to shoot and repair. If you chose Aerothane I would wait a couple of months. Can't tell you why right now but it will be worth the wait. I vote Polytone though, especially if you are repainting Stits (Polyfiber). Polytone won't stick to Aerothane. Aerothane will stick to Polytone after scotch briting it.

Polytone is EASY to shoot, easy to repair back to color after a fabric repair, and less toxic to you, your neighbors, and the environment.

Aerothane is shiny looking, impervious to solvents, tougher scrape/scratch resistance than polytone. It is also very toxic, will not suffer a fool of a shooter, and any fabric repairs will take extra, extra effort to hide the repair topcoats.

If you're a confident shooter, but have never shot Aerothane, see my above paragraph about fools.

If you're a neophyte shooter, go polytone. Treat it gently for a few weeks after the color coats are shot, as it is very soft. However, after a month or more it's acceptably durable. It will always be a very easy topcoat to repair.

Good luck and have fun. DAVE

Im helping a friend cover his L4 replica,(Polyfiber process) We plan on polytone which I have experience with. Just wondering about the match up with the sheet metal, Olive drab poly tone, anybody done a matchup with the polytone with the enamal "flattner"? Just wondering about the match up. We are soon to be shooting color. Kevin

Everything that Steve and Dave said plus Aerothane comes with a weight penalty also.

Steve said:

If you chose Aerothane I would wait a couple of months. Can't tell you why right now but it will be worth the wait.

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Vwe half vways of making you talk!!

Jerry

I get corrected in a later post by Dave Calkings as to my comment on weight penalty

You don't hear too many people who painted with aerothane originally asking the same question. You might want to look at a few planes 8-12 years after painting before you make your judgement solely on the technicalities of the process.

What you you use on Ceconite

What would you use on Ceconite and could you use the same product on the metal pieces.

Jeff

Steve P? he'll never be able to hold them beans to himself. We'll find out!

Hey, I just re-read the question and realized 'lunchmoney' is talking about 'repainting'.

I'm not sure what exactly he means, but I AM sure that I hate painting over old fabric just to make it look good for another year or 2. It's a waste of paint. A guy oughtta just fly the thing and be happy, then recover in a couple years! Unless he's gonna sell the bird after it gets the new paint, in which case, he oughtta be tarred and feathered, because some naive dreamer will always buy a pretty bird and be stuck with a recover within a few years of his purchase.

Also, Jerry, I'm not so sure that Aerothane topcoat weighs much of anything. It must be somones old-wives-tale because they think A-thane is like the high-solids automotive polyurethanes, which it is not.

I pulled stits cover off a wing a few years ago that was topcoated with A-thane. The build-up of coats was so thick that the tape edges were almost hidden (not really hidden, but lots of coating thickness smoothing the edges).

So I rolled the fabric all up and weighed it on a scale that gets certified every year....... 9.5 pounds for one wing, no aileron or flap cover.

I weighed the wing-fabric off my -11 on the same scale....it's Ceconite and dope with maybe 1 rejuvenate job....17 pounds!

I don't think Aerothane is heavy at all. And I also kind of snicker when I hear a guy talk about a 'light' fabric job....especially if I know the guy talking is not experienced, but is just an owner repeating something he heard. There IS such a thing as a 'heavy' cover job, where way too much coating build-up is layed on, but I see this as just an improperly done job. A 'light' job is simply a properly done job. (unless 'light' means 'left off some or all of the silver', which is WRONG because the fabric will lose a lot of strength in the first year without UV protection)

Aerothane is pretty cool stuff once you learn how easy to go with the gun. The problem with it, or any other 'shiny' topcoat, other than toxicity, is that repairs will always be more apparent than a repair on a doped or polytoned job.

What's funny is that guys think of their shiny new fabric airplane as some kindof 'forever' beauty. It's not. It WILL get chipped or ripped, and WILL need a repair. Get over it, it's not a metal airplane!!

I missed the question about ceconite and the metal pieces.

I don't like spraying enamel. I don't think it's worth the prep time to spray an inferior product.

Use a catalyzed paint that will last a while. Enamel is NOT it.

Also, anyone who shoots enamel onto fabric (usually just as a trim color) and doesn't write it in the logbook should be shot!

GroundLoop, what exactly are you saying?

Also, don't forget that even a metal airplane needs a new topcoat every 15-20 years, and some guys still think their Cub fabric should last as long.!!?!!?

I know someone who uses dope on metal. It works great with the right primer. I will have to look up the primer he uses.

Dave,
I am saying that he should go out and observe how each process holds up over time. That is what I did. He can trust his eyes more than my opinion. At ten years the difference is very obvious.

delete

Dave said:

Also, Jerry, I'm not so sure that Aerothane topcoat weighs much of anything. It must be somones old-wives-tale because they think A-thane is like the high-solids automotive polyurethanes, which it is not.

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OK Dave I was reflecting on my stits class where they went out of their way to point out the weight difference between two part coatings and one part like polytone. Their comparison was probably between polytone and say Imron like you suggest. So I may stand corrected. I'm still going to check out my manual cause I thought they quantified the weight difference in aerothane and polytone but my memory could be obscured.

Anyway - I was trying to see if I could get the polyfiber manual online so I did the following google search: (type it exactly as it's written below)

stitz fabric covering system

Man what a difference the letter z makes!!!!

Jerry

Dave - You are correct. Polyfiber only refers to the weight penatly of 2 part Automotive paint.

Yesterday I was a middle age man now I'm an "Old Wife".

Jerry

Diggler,
Are you going to give us any facts, or reasoning, or experiences to go with your recommendation?

I vote poly-tone, looks more authentic. Give it a good rubbing and it develops a beautiful luster... And they're right about Aerothane being a bear to repair, just doesn't blend well at all.

My personal experience with repairs and polytone was not as positive. Polytone on my airplane had a color change over time. It appeared as a 'fading' and 'dulling'. You had to decide to first polish the whole airplane or match the dulled look, which at that time becomes the color of the day. At that point, it would blend very well to the color du jour. However, after that repair was done, the new patch did not fade and dull at the same rate of the rest of the plane and with time the perfectly matched repair would become obvious.

Clay,
Please explain what authentic looks like .

If you want to skip all the fancy expensive stuff, use dope. Install it right and keep it light.

I'm a vintage buff.....airplanes back in the day generally didn't roll out of the factory with the "wet" look.

Let me toss in my 2 pennies, better late than never.

The original question was about repainting using Poly-Tone or Aerothane. But that's kind of a loaded question, because you have to know what your painting over. The best blind advise is too reshoot with what ever the top coat is, after that try and go with the same family i.e. urethane, enamel, stits, etc... But if you set on using P-T or A-thane, Steve's and Dave's advise is well said.

Kevin, flattener can be tricky. With out looking at my notes I want to say 3/4 - 1 can flattener to a gallon of enamel I think. Best advice is to test it before going to the real deal. *** This is my personal opinion... If you haven't bought the paint yet, Aerothane over metal works really nice. It sprays easier (for me) and holds up better. And it will flatten out very nice to match OD. But this is only my opinion***

Jeff, Poly-Fiber fabric and Ceconite are the same product; Light to Light, Med. to Med., Heavy to Heavy, they all come off the same loom in California. Only difference is PolyFiber has the ink stamp every 3-4 feet. You get into trouble when processes are mixed and steps not followed. Unfortunately thats what got Steve Wittman. But to answer your question, both PolyTone and Aerothane can be used over fabric and metal. But special steps need to be taken with PolyTone over metal. Spray a coat of epoxy primer and when tacky shoot the PolyTone into it. Aerothane on the other hand, is straight forward and has the benefit of chemical resistant (i.e. No fuel stains etc...)

In the end, no matter what anybody says, it's your decision and preference. Spraying the different products is a matter of technique, and the finish has to suit your life style. Clay likes the deep luster and warm glow of polished Poly-Tone, but others like the resilience of Aerothane, while still others want reparability.

nkh

polytone vs aerothane

does polished polytone match aerothane? you can make dope shine better than aerothane can you do the same with polytone?

Jay, no and yes. If you take the time and effort to polish PolyTone, you will get a different look; more of a deeper, darker, more lustrous shine as opposed to the bright shiny wet look of Aerothane. Personally I prefer the warm shine of polished PolyTone.

The closest comparison, with out seeing the two side by side, would be like this: Think of a new car shine as Aerothane. It looks good and wet, and you can see you reflection, but it doesn't have a deep shine. Now think of Polished PolyTone as a restored 1930 hotrod that has the deep shine and color of 20 hand rubbed coats from an anal retentive owner. Thats the way I see them.

nkh

polytone vs aerothane

aint no biggie to color sand and polish i did it everyday for twelve years when i was in the autobody buisness did lots of corvettes in laquer its not like i have to have it flying the next day i have plenty of time to get out the buffer

The polytone - aerothane argument rages on. I just keep wondering why there is so little interest in the Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) system. It has no isocyanates - the stuff that will kill you or at least cause cancer. I personally have not used it but I had my A&P use it on my square tail project. I will post photo's of the square surfaces next to my stock surfaces (stock were covered with Stitts - polytone). They (Mike and Todd) have nothing but good things to say about the system and the best part was they didn't have to risk contracting cancer to use it.

Yeah, yeah I know - AFS doesn't have a 30 or 40 year track record but is the risk of dying before your aircraft finish wears out really worth it?

I would think the AFS system is at least worthy of some consideration. I know Jason has used it and also has nothing but good things to say about it. Maybe he will jump on here and add some comments.

You can check out AFS here: http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/index.html

Just my two cents for what its worth.

Gunny wrote:

I just keep wondering why this is so little interest in the Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) system.

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I think it is a combination of years in service and advertising dollars. This system seems like good stuff, but I've never heard of it any where except on this forum! I'd be willing to try it on my next cover job.

John Scott

If Steve Pierce knows what I know and we are thinking the same thing he is right. If your gearing up for a recover/rebuild there is some good news just around the corner for us tube and fabric guys.

Gunny is right, AFS is not anywhere as poisonous as Stits. The world be a changing boys. There is a better way to cover airplanes. Lighter, Faster, Less expensive, NON Flammable, Cleans up with WATER, No need for a fresh air system or fancy paint guns, And EASY to use and repair!

Only down side is the stuff is so darn shiny when done that if your trying to go for that old-fashion look you'll have to custom order a flat type colored paint instead of the normal glossy stuff. Oh and I almost forgot, that gloss wont fade with time.

Bugs May also jump in with his 2 cents since he was the last person on this forum that I know of to take the covering class.

Poly-fiber and all its solvent based variants or Dope works fine. but now you have a third option. Kinda like vanilla, chocolate, or strawberry.


Jason
N43643

Steve, Jason, if your talking about the re-tool, I think you can spill the beans. Plus it should be going into affect very, very soon.

nkh

So what is this big revelation that you are talking about?

Tim

poly-tone VS Aerothane

Come on Guys, I'm sitting on the edge of my seat.