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oil screen vs. spin on

teeweed

GONE WEST
Hempstead, Texas
I have the screen filter, I have thought about changing it out to a spin on, but have some other things I would rather buy for my cub, like shoulder harnesses, safety cables, 31's. My question is...... do I take a big risk in my engine not making T.B.O. With the spin on filter, will you get more life time out of your engine. Thanks Mark
 
Your engine should make TBO with or without a spin on filter. The advantage to me is longer durations between oil changes if I so desire and the ease of maintenance. I hate pulling off the oil screen housing and cleaning screens. The oil temp. probe, gasket and the mess are a pain. I just installed the new ECI filter on a customer's engine. At $225 for the whole kit I think even my frugal self will pony up the cash when it comes time to put my engine together.
 
95% of the people on this site will tell you to get the filter, so I guess one of the 5% has to speak up. It all depends on how much junk you like crammed between the firewall and the engine.
Thats why I like the Sutton Exhaust and the original screen. My first engine went 3200 + hrs and was still running strong when removed. Two I have now are in the High teens and still running strong.
Frequent use and regular oil changes are more important.
 
oil filter

I would hope that any-one who installs a spin-on would keep the screen in the engine. From the research that I have done most aircraft spin-ons have a really low by-pass pressure setting. With out the screen, you will have almost no filtration at all, until the oil heats up enough to flow through the element. This could be as high as 120 degrees or more depending on how clean the element is. Agreed, the engine will go to tbo without it, but with the filter you may have less parts that are worn out.
Ron
 
Lycomings have a suction screen but require the removal of the main screen to install the oil filter adapter.

A side note. Check ther ears of the screen housing on Lycomings. I have found a number of the ears cracked.

S2D, Isn't it less cramped with an oil filter adapter than it is trying to remove the screen?
 
oil filter

Steve: Figured that was the case. Went through this filter stuff this spring with my fresh A65. Made my own adapter as what was on the market had a ridiculously stupid price on it. On the 65-8 there is no choice but remove the screen. The pressure relief valves on the filter that I was using (11psi) which are higher than the aircraft filters I checked. Showed some figures I did not care for. First new start-up showed nothing unusual because I had preheated the oil for first run. Next day cold, it was reading about 11-12 psi lower on the gauge. After flying it and oil temp about 180 the pressure was up to the normal 40 with the idle pressure at 35.
In the end I went for a PurePower filter with a 35 micron cleanable element and the by-pass setting of 18 psi. Cold pressure now shows about 5 psi drop, which is restriction but the by-pass is not open and I doubt it will ever open unless the filter becomes seriously plugged. Since the end result is guaranteed full flow filtration about 3-4 times better than the OEM screen I think I will leave well enough alone. Some of you may have picked up on the 35 micron which is about .0015. Aircraft filters will not give a rating, but they are in the 20-25 micron area. Better you say? Not really as it is rated as the smallest particle , but 200-300 microns can get through. The 35 micron that I'm using, is absolute, which means nothing bigger will get through. With the thicker oils we use you can only go to a certain rating or it will not work as it should. In the end I ended up paying a ridiculous price for a filter .It's enough to drive a person to :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:
Ron
 
Steve Pierce said:
S2D, Isn't it less cramped with an oil filter adapter than it is trying to remove the screen?

I don't know, only seen pics of filters on a cub. Where else are you hanging the filter but on the firewall??
 
I hate those filters stuck on the firewall. Like you said too much crap already to be adding adapters and hoses. I have used the B&C and now the ECI that replace the oil screen and angle up. Doesn't take up anymore room.
 
Stick to the oil screen. I haven't seen an oil filter setup I really liked. They add weight and junk to an already tight situation. I don't think we're having botton end problems due to oil filtration. Most of the problems are due to lack of use. You will rust out the bottom end before you wear it out. Take care. Crash
 
I think if you fly often, get your oil temp to 180 and change oil every 25 hours, and preheat you have a good chance to make TBO. If you have a filter its a good idea to inspect the element with a light and magnet.
 
I just put an SD-20 alternator on a cub, 0-320. The ECI adapter and filter is much easier to access with that installation. A screen would be very difficult to access. This alternator is driven by the vacuum pump drive. There is another thread discussing this under B&C alternator in modifications.
 
Is that SD-20 STC'd, field approved or is your application experimental? I looked at the SD-20 on the Aircraft Spruce website, and it's listed as experimental there.

Looks like a real slick installation, but is 20 amps adequate? What installed electrical equipment does it power?
 
I have the Airwolf on the firewall and it makes it easy to change the oil w/o any mess (wrap a ziploc around the bag before unscrewing. I do worry about the torque on the firewall when installing/removing the filter, seems like there should be more of a backing plate or doubler behind the mounting point on the inside.
 
The SD-20 will be a field approval. The equipment being run is standard cub electrical. One comm radio, nav lites, 2 50 watt landing lites on the wing, a GPS, and one cylinder temp/EGT guage.
I know some guys that run the SD-8s and they do not have any trouble with output. I suspect one may run into a problem if you had to run all equipment for extended periods of time. Then you put on the trickle charger or solar charger when shes parked.
All in all I really like the concept of the SD-20, get everything off of the front of the engine and make a clean rear mount installation.
 
talking about regular use of an engine to slow down the effects of rust and corrision, what is recommended?

Obviously 180 degrees to burn off the moisture but how often do you have to fly to keep an engine healthy for the long term?

I try and fly my Pacer at least once a week. If I go 2, I feel guilty. Should I?
 
I wouldnt' be afraid of either a screen or a filter setup, but if I had to choose between shoulder harnesses and an oil filter, the harnesses would win EVERY time.

Look, people run engines to TBO all the time without oil filters. I'm not saying they are a bad thing, but I can tell you I haven't met an installation of one yet that was pretty, or that didn't create a huge mess when trying to change the filter. If you're on the road when you do an oil change, you not only have to find somewhere to take the oil, but somewhere to take the filter (full of oil). Or, don't change the filter on the road, at which point you have defeated the purpose of the filter.

Change your oil every 25 hours, fly it regularly and these little Lycomings are just about as bomb proof an engine as you'll find. Rust is what kills them, and rust won't be fixed by a filter.

Frankly, I'd save the money for the filter and put in the tanks in the form of gas.

MTV
 
I only have the screen on my 0 290 and fly alot and change the oil every 25 hours.
The main reason I would like the filter is that it is a pain to check the screen.
I am fairly new to cubs. Is it necessary to check the screen every 25 or do you check it every other oil change??
 
flynlow said:
Is it necessary to check the screen every 25 or do you check it every other oil change??

It is a good idea to check the screen at each oil change. This will be your first hint that you need engine work. Clean your screen with some gas or paint thinner over a paper towel on a funnel. Look at the paper towel in sunlight, if you see shiny specs of metal you may have some problems. Sending a sample out is a good idea too.

Tim
 
My own personal airplane that I had owned for years got the screen cleaned every other oil change because for so long all I got was a little carbon.
 
Thanks, I have been checking every other change.


I am no A&P but I am guessing another vote for a filter could be to keep unwanted debris from perhaps a spalling cam out of bearings. This could maybe make a repair less costly.?
 
screen

First of all when the screen is taken out, there may be very little on it. The bigger crap falls into the cavity where the screen sits. As the oil drains out, what was stuck to the screen falls off. That's where you should be looking for debri. Clean the housing out as well as the screen.
A filter will not save the cam. It starts with rust on the lifter faces, or cam lobes and in time they will get rough. They will eat each other up in time.
Ron
 
oil filter

750XL: That's tough to nail down. To me, a lot depends on the climate. As we are both in Canada, the summer months would not be a big deal, especially the summer we just had. The spring and fall with the wildly changing temps and high humidity would be more of a concern to me. If you're like me, the plane flys 3-4 times a week in the summer so that's not a problem. This time of year I would like to fly it no less than once a week. Get the oil up to temp and burn off any condensation. Since this is getting harder to do as the weather craps out, I'm just about ready to pickle it for the season and move on to aircraft winter projects. With a 65 it's impossible to get the oil up to 175 degrees to burn the moisture off with the colder air temps.
Ron
 
For those of you pulling the oil screen, in my case on a C-85, where can you get a square socket for the large brass "nut" on the screen housing? Or is there a better tool? Just not enough room in there for an open end wrench.
 
I took the filter off and went back to the screen. Put the tail wheel on a barrel so the engine is somewhat level or nose down and the oil drains back into the case from the screen housing. You also get more oil outa the sump that way then with the tail on the ground. I'm pretty sure I can inspect a screen about twice as fast with half the mess of changing and inspecting a filter. I can reuse the gasket a few times before replacing it. It's lighter, simpler, and worked pretty dam good for thousands of aircraft millions of hours since the beginning. Everyone knows the 2 best things you can do for an engine is to use it on a regular basis and change the oil often. Filters and screens don't prevent premature wear they give you the opportunity to catch it by visual clues before the wear gets out of hand. You would be surprised at how much metal a lycoming can make and continue to operate normally for hundreds of hours.



Jason
 
I will take the filter any day over a screen. Having to remove the four bolts and the oil temp bulb on a Lycoming is a pain in the ass to me along with the likelihood of damaging the bourbon tube. Safetying the screen on the small Continentals i a PITA a well. I change oil every 25-30 hours and the filter every other oil change. I also pull the suction screen annually.
 
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