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Thread: Fraud Broker, Lost Money=Bad Deal!

  1. #1

    Fraud Broker, Lost Money=Bad Deal!

    After searching for help and answers in other places, I find myself posting here....as I have seen the knowledge & results from this site. I could kindly use some help right now.

    I bought a plane, through a broker. Went down to the States to get the plane and was informed by the mechanic that the seller told him to NOT release the plane to me as the seller had not been paid in full for the plane through the broker. I flew back home without the plane or my money. A week as passed since this took place and so far I feel like I'm spinning my wheels, nothing is getting done.

    Details: I located a Cessna 182 on a broker website, www.aircoinc.com The brokers name is Jim Armstrong from Buffalo Minnesota. I contacted the broker, told him I was interested in purchasing the plane. He gave me contact info for the mechanic shop where the plane is located near Atlanta Georgia. I called the shop, ask many questions about the plane, (over the phone pre-buy) had some email pictures sent to me. Next the broker told me that the seller was very motivated because he was going through a divorce and needed the money quickly to settle with his wife. (in hind site I should have known!)
    I wired the broker the full amount of the sale price, $39,900. I was faxed a copy of the FAA "Bill of Sale", that was signed and dated by the seller, and the Bill of Sale included the N number and serial number. The Bill of Sale was NOT completed, it did NOT include the sale price, or my name. We were suppose to finish the bill of sale when I got the plane, and I was to be handed the ORIGINAL, ink-signed document. I was also faxed a hand-written contract from the broker which said, I was buying the plane for $39,900, this included the N number, serial number, terms of the deal which included the seller & broker splitting the cost of the anual, I was to recieve the orginal Bill of Sale, date this transaction took place, and acknowledgment that the broker was the agent for the seller.
    Through this process, at first, I trusted the mechanic as representing the airplane in a honest manor. At first, I also trusted that the seller was being honest with me. From the very begining I had a bad feeling about the broker and trusted him about like a used car salesmen, however I THOUGHT I had enough paper work to cover myself, and my money, if this deal went bad. For what its worth, I have bought and sold several planes over the years, however its always been person-to-person and a CASH deal.
    While I was at the mechanic shop in Georgia I was doing my best to jump in the plane and fly away, and hopefully somehow get the original Bill of Sale, signed in ink. That didn't happen. During this process the seller told me on the phone that the broker had only giving him $3,000, and he wasn't going to release the plane to me until he got paid. While I understand his position, my position was that I have paid in full for the plane and if the seller and the broker had problems, that was there problems and they needed to work it out between themselves.
    According the fine print on the Bill of Sale, it must be submitted to the FAA as the original document, signed in ink.

    I got back home and got a call from a local Police detective in Buffalo MN. He told me this broker was a long time crook and was recently released on $50,000 cash bail, from charges steming from a different plane brokerage deal that went bad.
    Through my own resources I did a background ck on the broker, James Criag Armstrong, and found out that he currently has 22 liens and judgements against him. I started calling everyone on the list who he owes money to. They all have a similar story about getting screwed on an airplane transaction.

    My attorney located in Anchorage has been in contact with the broker who said he would give my money back. I was suppose to recive a wire transfer for the past week that hasn't happened. More lies.

    The BIG QUESTION?

    Where do I stand? How can I get my money back? Do I have an argument to get a "clear title" to the plane? I don't have a good feeling about the attorney I'm currently using because I'm not sure how much aviation law he gets into. How do I go about getting the plane?

    I know I can spend a considerable amount of money and proabably get a judgment against the broker, however he already has 22 other people waiting in line that he owes money to. This guy is a lifelong crook, even if I get a judgment, its' only a piece of paper that says he owes me money.

    There is another side of this also, the crimal case. I have contacted the local police in Buffalo MN. and they know whats going on, and I think they'll proocute the case.
    I have also contacted the FBI in the Atlanta office and the Minniapolis office. In no un-certain terms that told they wouldn't do anything about it. In fact, one agent told me that if I didn't have at least 2 dead bodies and a truck-load of cocaine they wouldn't even open a case file for this. Told me there focus is on National Security and anti-terrorisum.

    Good Flying..>Byron Lamb
    byron@alaskabiggamehunting.com
    907-842-4352

  2. #2
    Incredible story Byron, wiring the full amount might be where you might have f**ked up, Since you were travling there anyway to ferry it back. Right now you answered your own question, there are 22 ahead of you. This guy needs some "street justice" if he is out on bail and if I was him I would be watching over my shoulder. Find an attorney that has a different attitude. just my 2 cents worth. 40 grand aint chump change.

  3. #3

    Deal gone Bad

    Byron,
    I'm sorry that you got stung on this deal. If you are an AOPA member, call them and see if they can help. Find an attorney that is familiar with aviation law and see if you have just cause to file a lien against the aircraft for the amount of money that you have in the deal. That may be enough incentive for the seller to help get this matter resolved as soon as possible.
    Contact the local law enforcement authorities again and tell them that you want charges filed as soon as possible. Contact the MN state authorities and see if there are any MN dealer or state business licenses that you can proceed against. I would also contact the FAA and see if the broker has a FAA Aircraft Dealer's license that you could proceed against.

    For the rest of us, AOPA sells an aircraft purchasing Escrow service. The money is sent to AOPA and is not released until the paperwork is in order and the purchaser authorizes the release of the money. The seller is protected by the fact that they have verified funding in the AOPA escrow account before the seller signs the bill of sale. I've used the escrow service before, and it proved to be an inexpensive way to keep a complicated multi-state financial transaction from becoming a nightmare.

    Jim

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Luke

    Sounds like you fell in with a real dirt bag who has no intention of returning your money. You might have better luck finding a independent collection agentcy and see what they can do for you.

    Jim thanks for the AOAP escrow service update.

    Cub_Driver

  6. #6
    Luke, fire the attorney you hired and call it a day. You're just throwing more good money after bad. Sorry to give you the "hard love" answer on this but it's good advice, take it. Your lesson will help your kids, family and the rest of us who heard it. Sorry to hear of your loss. He will pay ten fold come judgement day. "Every knee will bend and every mouth will confess says the lord", this guy has only won for a short time. Best wishes. Crash

  7. #7
    Luke,

    Sorry to hear what you're going through. I'll have to agree with T.J.
    Find a guy named Vinnie and teach this rat a lesson.

  8. #8
    T.J.'s kneecap deal is the one that will get results. If I had 40 large in the drain I would be livid. What would happen if you found where the airplane is and flew it out of there to AK. You did pay for it. Might be a chance to be lurking around the tie down area and leave with it. I would take this very hard.

  9. #9
    Sorry to hear of your troubles.

    What about the owner....he hired this guy. Not to mention he has your
    $3000.00. Any accountability there?

    Laura

    Sorry - I know that's not a popular option

  10. #10
    Byron this is aweful. I'm very sorry to hear about this ordeal.

    I just have to strongly concur with what was previously said though... the AOPA escrow service can't be beat, it's great insurance to protect against incidences like this for a very low price. I used it in purchasing both of my planes.

  11. #11
    I would go get the plane. The Seller has the problem. Maybe midnight would the right time. You have a partial bill of sale. Is it signed by the seller? If so you are covered from the end. Fill out your name and the selling price and hit the road. But you have proof of puchasing the airplane by bank proof, I really think your covered. You have completed the transaction and acted in good faith. The mechanic has no saying in the matter. Sorry for the seller, the money was sent by you to the seller, the fact the broker didn't finish the transaction with the seller is the real problem. If you don't want to get it at night maybe I would collect the documents you have and perhaps go to the local FAA, sheffif and anybody else you can get involved and show up on a monday to recover the airplane. Are there any other leans on this particular plane. If not go get the plane with legal force if you have to. I am almost sure the problem is legally betweent the seller and his broker. You again completed your side of the transaction. Ah attorneys chime in.

  12. #12
    Sorry to hear this Byron. Gotta agree with Crash. This guys judgment day will come but I'm sure you'd like to help him there. I also agree with Jeff. Looks like to me if the seller really signed the Bill of Sale it is a problem between him and the broker.
    Steve Pierce

    "When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
    Henry Ford

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie
    . What would happen if you found where the airplane is and flew it out of there to AK. You did pay for it. .
    Yup I fully agree with Cub Junkie
    The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....

  14. #14
    Just confirms my already formed opinion of most aircraft brokers. In all my dealings with brokers, I've NEVER had one honestly represent an airplane.

    I wouldn't run down and grab the airplane, but I'd sure investigate my legal optoins since you do have a signed bill-of-sale in your hand. Unless, of course, it was forged by the broker. That being said, I wouldn't hold my breath. It sounds like this broker has been down this road before and probably knows all the legal angles.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by T.J. Hinkle
    Luke:
    Your screwed. The law will do nothing for you. Similar thing happened in Kenai few years ago. The feds had the guy dead to rights. Fed prosecutor said, na, we're not interested, more important things to do.
    Isn't this more of a state / local crime thing? For most of our nation's history, there were only 3 federal crimes: counterfeiting, treason, and piracy on the high seas. Everything else was considered something that is more appropriately handled at the state and local level. My assumption is that the authorities in Minnesota should be handling it, not the Feds.

  16. #16

    brokers

    S2D remember our one and only A/C deal with a broker out of Denver. We got a 3000$ lesson on that deal. I can't even remember the guys name but would reconize it if I saw it.

  17. #17

    Fraud Broker, Lost Money+ Bad Deal!

    A rotten deal all around, Byron.

    Lots of ideas, on how to proceed. Crash likely right, but you may have other options.

    Be careful about throwing good money after bad. There are 22 other victims ahead of you, each likely just as mad, each likely had a lawyer try to recover money paid to this scumbag.

    Be sure to have police proceed with charges. Eventually jail will adjust his attitude.

    Good luck

    Phil
    Canada

  18. #18
    I would probably get together with all of the other 22 people. Pool the money and resources together and go after him. Im not a lawyer, but similar to a class action lawsuit. Why pay the lawyers 22 times? Make sure you are recording all corespondance with the scum bag and owner.

    Is the owner working with you on this at all? Could you put a lein on the plane until it is sorted out?

    Tim

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Stay focused. You want your money or the airplane. Not a law suite. They are expensive and take a long time. Consult a professional and study your options. Go get the airplane. You have paid for it. The owner must release it. It is not your responsibility to insure the broker doesn't rip off the seller. The broker really hasn't done anything to you when you think about it. Its the seller that is trying to hold you for his problem. The seller needs to figure out how to recover his money. You have completed the transaction. I would be talking to a MN and GA attorney for how to recover what you have paid for.

  21. #21
    In maine whenever i have contacted police over bad transactions they would do nothing. They always stated that business agreements are a civil matter.I feel for you,i got ripped of out of washington state years ag.I went and got the plane,but he said floats were being shipped from alaska.I was about 20 and took his word for it,floats never showed.This same plane was recently traded to this guy ,he traded the dornier to another unwitting victim.Come to find out the dornier had an illegal airworthy certificate and was not approved in the u.s.. I will not buy a plane more than 400 miles away.By the time you buy airline tickets,take time off from work,ferry it back with fuel,hotel rooms and such you will have spent several thousand more dollars.It is just worht it to spend 5000 dollars more locally and leave the good deals to someone else. If it was a great deal it would have probably sold locally.If the plane is average price it takes a while for it to sell.Look before you buy.I have had little discrepencies with sellers,but they were not a big deal.Sounds like this was a real con man. Watch taking the law into your own hands,i have done this a few times and it cost me three grand 2 years ago.If you do it,make sure there are no witnesses.My temper usually gets the best of me and fists start flying.

  22. #22
    P.S. If you have any type of bill of sale,i would file it immediately .That may get you some leverage down the road.

  23. #23
    Terrible story, and I am sure that you are kicking yourself for not using an escrow service. I am a prosecutor. I can't give out legal advice, but taking the airplane is a bad idea. You have no idea who signed that bill of sale, and it sounds like the seller was scammed as much as you were.

    You have done the right thing by calling the police. Keep in contact with them and find out who the prosecutor is that is handling his other case. Contact the prosecutor and provide full documentation. I would recommend writing out exactly what has happened and when it happened.

    My guess is that your money is long gone. If the guy could buy his way out of trouble, he already would have. He will try to string you along as long as possible.

    Of course the seller owes you what ever he received on the transaction.

  24. #24
    I strongly agree with the position that you own they plane and the problem is the Seller's. The Seller hired the Broker to sell the plane for him and signed a Bill of Sale. The Broker was the Seller's agent and therefore legally acted on the part of the Seller. The Seller sold you the airplane! If his agent (the Broker) ain't giving him the money, he is the one that should be talking to Guido.

    As far as the Bill of Sale goes. It doesn't matter who writes in the purchase price. You can write it in and sign. (In fact, another rather stupid mistake the Seller made because either you or the Broker could write in the customary $1 and that, minus his commission, is all the Broker would legally owe the Seller.) Small technicality that it isn't the Seller's original signature. It can easily be proven that it is his and that he intended to sell the plane. I'd say call the local law enforcement, tell them you have the requisite paperwork, that you expect possible trouble, and would like a courtesy escort to go pick up your plane.

    Have a nice flight back to AK.

    Paul

  25. #25
    Going after the broker is a dead end street. As has been said, he already knows the in's and out's and at worst he will get jail time, you won't get your money ahead of the others. Unfortunately for him your target should be the seller. the broker is the legal representative of the seller and therefore, in most States, is responsible for his actions. You may not get complete restitution, but something is better than nothing and he currently has no reason to assist you in any endeavor to get your money back. A little persuasion may help change his mind.

    Bob D

  26. #26
    But your faxed copy of the BOS doesn't carry any weight with the FAA, and probably not with law enforcement either. Original would be needed, signed in ink (preferrably blue), and filled out with buyer and seller info. The Bill of Sale is only signed by the seller, Registration is signed by the buyer.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CraigH
    but I'd sure investigate my legal optoins since you do have a signed bill-of-sale in your hand. Unless, of course, it was forged by the broker.
    In my original reading of your post, I missed the part where you said you had a FAXED Bill of Sale. Like Clay said, the faxed bill of sale is most likely worthless other than showing intent to defraud. I hate to say it, but it looks like you're a screwed duck.

  28. #28

    Re: Fraud Broker, Lost Money=Bad Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_theDrifter
    From the very begining I had a bad feeling about the broker and trusted him about like a used car salesmen. .
    Hey, I resemble that remark! But to my knowledge, I've never ripped anybody off on either a car or an airplane.

  29. #29
    And, you won't get through Canada with a US registered airplane unless the paperwork is squeaky clean. No temporary registrations, even.

    I feel for ya, man. A real bum deal.

    One of the wonderful things about aviation is that so many of us are still very honest and trusting individuals, which, of course, is how you got into this.

    Every time we hear one of these deals a little more cynicism creeps into the world of aviation.

    Hang in there, I hope it comes out for you.

    MTV

  30. #30
    So...

    You talked to the owner on the phone.

    Did you ever even meet the owner in person?
    What was the N Number?

    Does the phone number of the "owner" match up with the adress of what the n number is listed as? You can do a reverse lookup on google.

    Tim

  31. #31
    Could the aircraft be held up in some type of lien deal?Kind of like a mechanics lien. Im not a Lawyer and I didnt stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night but you well know the seller still wants to sell the airplane and if you could create a s**t storm for him with some type of lien it would at least get him involved. Right now he can still sell the airplane the way I see it.

  32. #32
    Interesting, from a simple web search:

    http://www.forpilots.com/archive/rec.../5/msg5256.htm

    http://www.forpilots.com/archive/rec.../5/msg5296.htm

    http://www.aircoinc.com/

    http://www.aircoinc.com/contact.html

    Looks like this guy has been screwing people since at least the year 2000, according to the forums above.....

  33. #33
    Cub Junkie has a point.......By all accounts you now have a contractual and financial interest in the aircraft. It may be possible to file a lien against the aircraft to try and recover at least some of your loss.

  34. #34
    I feel for you Luke,
    I've known about this guy for the past 6 or 7 years and I
    believe he's connected to the following sites also.
    http://global-air.com
    http://vickivt.com
    They even take photos from supercub.org (scroll down on your right)
    http://vickivt.com/vicki/vsecret.htm
    Mark

  35. #35
    Mark,
    I believe the guys who runs those sites is named Ron Howes? I called about a C140 on his site years back. It was completely misrepresented. After that and a few other incidents with brokers I won't even consider an aircraft being sold by one.

  36. #36
    Tough lesson, Byron; wish I could more than just talk. My 2c, for what its worth.

    It's pointless to waste your time lamenting what you should have done. Your mistake(s) might be a great lesson for us (and you), but what's done is done, so look only forward.

    First aid first. Stop the bleeding of your finances. Pay nothing to no one unless you have to.

    Re-establish your balance. Accept your loss. I won't be easy, but it's possible. Crying over spilled milk is a sure way to stay emotionally off-balance. Once you have given up all hope of ever recovering a penny, your thinking will be lot clearer.

    Give yourself time to heal. You don't have to do anything in a hurry. Have a few beers, read a book, go flying, or work on a project on a regular basis to occupy or numb your mind with something else. Meanwhile, keep doing what you're doing right now: get opinions, from presidents to janitors, so you can get a "feel" for best and worst do's and dont's in situations like this. But don't get obsessed with it.

    Plan ahead, way ahead. Try to cover all imaginable outcomes. Document everything: calls, faxes, emails; make a note of the name of the person you talk to; the date, time and place; as well as any witnesses. If someone can testify to what you think is important, ask them right away: "Did you witness that?"

    With time and a clear head, your intuition will suggest what's right, and how to achieve it. The best ideas always hatch unexpectedly. Then, when your gut-feeling begins to talk to you, and it's no longer out to get revenge, not even satisfaction, listen to it, think about it, discuss it with family and friends, and then decide.

    Who knows. You might want to sell your Bill of Sale to a collection agency (as suggested above) at a discount, or to a Bail Bond hound-prosecutor-jury-judge-executioner at a deep discount, and let him worry about it. Some of them are willing to moonlight for the right discount, especially if their odds are good and business is slow.

    Cheer up, and think about how lucky you are to have buddies to share your plight with. They might not be able to help you get your money (or your airplane) back, but I hope by the time you read this line, you will have written it off. Then, if you end up getting anything back, it will be a pleasant surprise. Whatever you do, don’t let this predicament psyche you out.

    Best of luck. Please keep us in the loop.
    A dime to live; a place to fly.

  37. #37
    I noticed all the plane photos on his sites had the N number covered or taken at an angle so it wouldn't show.

    I bet in most cases the owners of these planes don't even know their planes have sold.

    I does not appear that he is representing the seller and the seller probably didn't know Armstrong until he paid the deposit and then disappeared.

  38. #38
    Im selling my Super Cub and the guy buying it is financing thru AOPA/MNBA. Is there anything I need to look out for with these guys?

  39. #39
    MBNA is what you mean correct. Located in Delaware.

  40. #40

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