I have rebuilt wings using Univair stamped ribs in the past. I have a set of Dakota ribs on the way for a set of Clipper PA16 wings I am rebuilding. I have another set of Tri-Pacer wings to rebuild and am trying to decide which ribs to use. Dakota's rib kit is $500 more, my cost for the set. When I say rebuild I mean everything comes off including the bushings in the wing attach fittings.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
I have Carlson Ribs for the J5. I gave them the set and they built me new custom ribs. Nobody makes ribs for the J5.
http://www.sky-tek.com/
Just another option....
Tim
I emailed them and asked for info on their ribs and they sent me literature on their hombuilt kits. Guess I need to call them.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Steve-
I think most of their market is in the homebuilt/kit area. Their ribs are STC'd for the J3, but they have prints of all of the piper ribs. Mine are getting installed as owner built parts. Im not sure how their prices compare to Dakota Cub ribs anymore, but I am happy with the quality of workmanship.
Tim
Steve,
When you see the Dakotas for your 16, you'll order them for the tri-pacer.
They are spendy, but they are heavy duty and quality built.
Rock
I agree. The Dakota ribs are much better then Carlson's.
Carlson is about 1/2 hr flight from me. He is basically geared for ultralites. his ribs are similar to Wag Aeros.
John
Both the Univair ribs and the Dakota ribs are excellent products. I suspect that the Univair ribs are slightly heavier. I went with the Univair ribs and was very pleased. Both of my wings were a complete disassembly and rebuild. I stripped all the steel parts and epoxy primed them. Some people go so far as to epoxy prime the aluminum spars and ribs.
Steve, You'll love the quality of the Dakota ribs.
If you ever thought of doing pop-rivet 'rib-stitching', Univairs ribs work for that. That popping goes fast, but I'm still into those long needles and doing rib stitching.
One thing nice about the Univair ribs is that it's really easy to hit the flanges on their ribs with LE screws, etc, because of the hydroformed flat sheet and the shape the ribs come out. The flanges are really wide.
Also, Univairs are easy to install nutplates in for wing-root fairing screws. This is a nice trick that I've not seen anyone else do.
You won't regret the Dakota ones, though. They are so nicely made, and really sturdy. Just a really first-class component that is fun simply to look at.
Have fun. DAVE
I used Univair ribs on my Exp on both sides of the tanks. As Dave said, you can install nutplates on the butt rib and the Univair outboard tank rib is less subject to side loads caused by tightening fabric.
Dakota ribs are a first class product so I used some in the rest of the wing.
I think I know Steve well enough, to say he will not use pop rivets! Rivets or clips are a sorry excuse for attaching fabric to a wing.
I have both sets of wings down to nothing including the attach fittings. All aluminum stripped, etched, alodined and epoxy primed. Steel has been blasted, epoxy primed and top coated with a catylised polyurethane. Have ordered the Univair butt ribs and intend to install nut plates. I hate sheet metal screws that aren't at least screwed into a tinnerman nut. My original ribs are excellent and will use them due to cost and light weight. The other pair of Clipper wings had been in a nose over years ago and don't look so good so they are being replaced with Dakota's. I haven't decided on leading edges yet. Univairs don't fit tight in my experience due to the lack of radius. Dakota's fit nice and are one size thicker. I will probably use Dakota blanks and cut and notch to fit because they are not made for the Clipper. Yes TJ you are correct, I will pull out my favorite curve tipped long needles and rib stitch them all. No pop rivets, clips or Martin clips for me. The Tri-Pacer wings are a bid job and can't see spending the extra $500. Will leave it up to the customer.
A side note: All 6 of my aileron hinges for both sets of Clipper wings were pitted so bad that I will not use them. They were pitted in the area that they go thru the false spar and looked fine untill all the old paint was bead blasted off. Also found a slightly bent rear spar on one of the wings that had been flipped along with buckled strut attach fittings. Also had some surface corrosion on the spars that had to be Scotch brited off with some etch. My goal is that twenty years from now when I recover my wings again they will only need recover. Hopefully everything else will be well preserved.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
That works! Forty years ago an old-time mechanic told me to spray some zinc chromate on all my bright, shiny aluminum parts. At recover time, all I needed to do was look at the wings real close, and replace the tip bows. It doesn't take much to protect that dural, but it takes something!
Weak point on the metal spar wing is those aluminum inserts in the compression struts. Seems like they are always stripping out! Buy stock in Helicoil!
I know where your coming from there Bob.Weak point on the metal spar wing is those aluminum inserts in the compression struts. Seems like they are always stripping out! Buy stock in Helicoil!
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
I would use Dakota Cub ribs no matter what they cost.
Dakota compression member inserts are machined out of billet aluminum. Piper cast their inserts. Piper threads pull out and cross thread very easily. CrashOriginally Posted by bob turner
The Dakota compression member inserts are threaded for 1/2 inch, the Piper ones are threaded for barely over 1/4 inch. I have always torqued the bolts in the Dakota inserts to 11 ft. lbs. and have never stripped one.
On coating the ribs:
I was planning to etch and alodine my ribs before I coat them with primer. A few people have told me not to etch and alodine because the etch will stay in between the joints on the ribs and cause corrosion. These are carlson ribs, essentially the same as dakota ribs. After looking into it, the best alternative (and easier) would be to use self etching primer. I used the self etching primer on some cessna parts, and I was pretty happy with it, I could not chip it off.
Any thoughts or advice?
Tim
Just my 2cents worth, the self etch primer would probably do the job without all the extra work . NAPA has it in rattle cans that make life easier in this area. I have Carlson ribs also and when I started this project I was 40 and I thought about corrosion, well Im 50 now and still working on it so those ribs have been well protected in the workshop.
I etched and alodined. Hosed the heck out of them and blew them out with compressed air then sprayed with epoxy primer. My goal is to be able to just recover in twenty years without having to completely rebuild. By the way I like the Dakota ribs. 1/2 lb. heavier than the same stock rib. Luckily my ribs are in good shape and I am using them. My customers ribs had been on crunched in a nose over so they are Dakota. One note, you have to drill holes in the flanges for the drag/anti-drag wires to pass thru.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Dakota ribs hands down over Univair ribs. By the way, Dakota ribs are 2 ounces each heavier then stock Piper ribs, not a 1/2 pound each as posted earlier. They are at least four times stronger then a stock rib. Univair ribs are 4 ounces each heavier then stock Piper ribs and I feel not much stronger from the wrecks I've seen. Take care. Crash
Crash, I weighed them myself. With this group I know not to make a statement I can't back up.By the way, Dakota ribs are 2 ounces each heavier then stock Piper ribs, not a 1/2 pound each as posted earlier.
Outboard tank bay rib:
Stock .30 lbs.
Dakota .95 lbs.
Tank bay rib w/cutout full span (PA11, 16)
Stock .3 lbs
Dakota .8 lbs
I weighed these on my digital postal scales. Before my initial post I weighed a 3/4 stock rib and a 3/4 Dakota rib and the difference was .5 lbs both unpainted. The above Dakota ribs have 2 coats of epoxy primer and I weighed them this morning.
By comparison here is a full length butt rib with fuel tank flange:
Stock .60 lbs.
Univair .85 lbs.
I like the Dakota Cub ribs. There are things I like better and worse than Univair's. By comparison if I could find undamaged/ unrepaired stock ribs I would use them as I did in my own wings. I will weigh two sets of identical wings when complete and tell you the difference in the entire wing with Dakota ribs and the other stock Piper ribs. As with everything in aviation there is a compromise.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Steve,
Do you have an idea how the Wag-Aero ribs compare weight wise with the others? For exp. wings of course.
Thanks, Tim
I believe (but won't guarantee) that Carlson makes the Wag Aero Ribs. I compared a full Carlson rib to a stock Piper rib a few years ago. As I recall the Carlson rib was about 8 ounces heavier.
Mark
Carlson offers a discount for EXP ribs too.
Tim
Just by looking I think you are right, the Wag ribs appear to be the same as Carlson's. I have used a lot of Carlson's stuff, If you dont want STC paperwork then you can buy the ribs cheaper. They have spar blanks too. My wings have just about every supplier parts in them, Carlson,Dakota Cub, D&E and Airframes inc.,exp. catagory of course.
When I was at Univar one day they told me that their wing ribs were NOT approved for the LATE MODEL supercubs. Their STC predates the later cubs.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Late model Supercubs have a differt TC. But what do I know I just fly it and write the checks.
If you are talking about Cubcrafters new whatchamacallit, I totally agree with you. If you are talking about Piper Supercubs or Cubcrafter's aircraft built on Pipers TC I can't find any newer TC, only AR-7 and 1A2. Did Piper make any SC's after S/N 1809113
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
The ones I refer to are 1809000 to 1809113. The wing parts I have seen on these aircraft have part revisions #s on them. Maybe somebody should ask Univar what their thoughts are.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Ihave the piper parts catalog for the late model supercubs. Issued June 27,1988. Example: Rib Assembly-16, right tip is a 89191-03 in the catalog But the actual part is 89191-03 Rev B But as each page of the parts catalog states "WHEN ORDERING, ALWAYS SPECIFY PART NUMBER, DESCRIPTION, AND SERIAL NUMBER OF THE AIRCRAFT" For me ordering the Dakota ribs with STC was a no brainer. But the Univar parts probably MIGHT HAVE BEEN ACCEPTABLE, kind of, sort of maybe depending what IA does the annual at which point in time. Pretty expensive to change later if it no longer is acceptable.
I read the paperwork that came with a Univair rib today. Couldn't find an exclusion for the late models anywhere. They called out the rib part number that the Univair rib was replacing.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
I have seen where several people have installed Dakota Cub wings on their Super Cub. Has anyone rebuilt their wings with Dakota Cub ribs? If so did you have to drill any holes in the cross members for the drag/anti-drag wires? I just built a set of Clipper wings for which Dakota ribs aren't STC'd and had to drill several holes. After calling Mark he sent me the drawing for installing the ribs and the criteria for drilling the holes. Just wondered if anyone had to do this on SC wings.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
When installing the Dakota PA-18 16 rib set the 6th, 9th, 10th, and 14th ribs each have two holes drilled in two of the vertical supports, and the 12th rib has one hole to drill. These hole positions are easy to locate and a step drill works great for the drilling.
Regards
I've done it. flapman is correct, I used a step drill also.
I used a Unibit on these Clipper wings. Just wondered if drilling was required on the SC wing. When my Clipper is done my L18C will need all new ribs as the originals are junk from being moved around uncovered.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
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