PA-12 STC's and upgrades?
- Thread starter CptKelly
- Start date
PA-12 STC's
FAA Website for STCs http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet
Dakota Airframes builds PMA'd replacement fuselages and can provide a 1935 lb gross weight. Gerry Phillips 712-477-2084
A search using the SuperCub.org search engine above will provide a lot of information shared in prior discussions on this website.
FAA Website for STCs http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet
Dakota Airframes builds PMA'd replacement fuselages and can provide a 1935 lb gross weight. Gerry Phillips 712-477-2084
A search using the SuperCub.org search engine above will provide a lot of information shared in prior discussions on this website.
PA12Tray
Registered User
Bangkok, Thailand
PA12-180
Charlie Center holds an STC for installing a 180 in a PA-12. I've installed it on my 12 and am very happy with it. The only downside being that you don't get to keep the original piper type nose bowl. I run an 8243 prop at 2450 and can cruise at 105-110 mph ground speed. Also have 29" gar aero's hanging out there that slow me down. I'm not sure what his current price is you would have to contact him for that. There was outfit from Canada used to install 180's in 12's but they purchased the STC from Charlie, and I believe they are out of business. When doing research to find other STC holders I only came across one other but couldn't contact them. Then tried to develop my own STC and after having the plane in a test stand for months going back and forth with the feds over the testing procedures and project plans, I gave up and went with the STC from Charlie Center.
Charlie Center holds an STC for installing a 180 in a PA-12. I've installed it on my 12 and am very happy with it. The only downside being that you don't get to keep the original piper type nose bowl. I run an 8243 prop at 2450 and can cruise at 105-110 mph ground speed. Also have 29" gar aero's hanging out there that slow me down. I'm not sure what his current price is you would have to contact him for that. There was outfit from Canada used to install 180's in 12's but they purchased the STC from Charlie, and I believe they are out of business. When doing research to find other STC holders I only came across one other but couldn't contact them. Then tried to develop my own STC and after having the plane in a test stand for months going back and forth with the feds over the testing procedures and project plans, I gave up and went with the STC from Charlie Center.
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StewartB
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StewartB
fishcruiser
Registered User
Anchorage
There is this STC on the FAA site that you might be curious about and so am I... I talked to a guy last year on Lk Hood here in Anchorage that said it did keep the original Cowl Etc but as of last year was only for the STC holders own airplane. Check it out and maybe contact the guy.
I know I am interested in replacing my almost runout 320 with an O-360.
There is a beautiful PA-12 with original cowl that I taxi by on Lake Hood that has an O-360. Infact this year I noticed he has new fabric and had 200HP Super Cruiser stenciled across the cowl. It is a very nice looking plane. So it is possible..
STC Number:
SA02195AK
Description of the Type Design Change:
Installation of Lycoming O-360-A2A engine, McCauley 1A200/FA8242 propeller, custin engine mount and pressure cowling. Eligible for installation on serial number Piper PA-12, serial number 12-572 ONLY.
I know I am interested in replacing my almost runout 320 with an O-360.
There is a beautiful PA-12 with original cowl that I taxi by on Lake Hood that has an O-360. Infact this year I noticed he has new fabric and had 200HP Super Cruiser stenciled across the cowl. It is a very nice looking plane. So it is possible..
STC Number:
SA02195AK
Description of the Type Design Change:
Installation of Lycoming O-360-A2A engine, McCauley 1A200/FA8242 propeller, custin engine mount and pressure cowling. Eligible for installation on serial number Piper PA-12, serial number 12-572 ONLY.
PA12 Question
Have any of you guys ever had or know of any experience with short landings and tanks less than half full causing the airplane to tend to nose over? I have noticed, or I think I have, that more caution needs to be used when below half fuel. Any experience out their on this??
Thanks
Jeffpa12
Have any of you guys ever had or know of any experience with short landings and tanks less than half full causing the airplane to tend to nose over? I have noticed, or I think I have, that more caution needs to be used when below half fuel. Any experience out their on this??
Thanks
Jeffpa12
Marc Olson
GONE WEST
Seattle, WA
When I fly with just me and full tanks, I run out of back trim with full flaps on final. I often put something heavy at the back of the baggage compartment for just this purpose. It's also harder to fly slow in this configuration (for the same reason), so my descent rate is lower.
I've not had it tranlate to nose over tendencies once on the ground, but I've not been pushing the limits on stopping short with aggressive braking once on the ground.
I've not had it tranlate to nose over tendencies once on the ground, but I've not been pushing the limits on stopping short with aggressive braking once on the ground.
PA12Tray
Registered User
Bangkok, Thailand
Crosswinds Modification
No, there is no additional tubing that needs to be installed to mount the 180 engine on Crosswinds STC. The engine mount is replace with a shorter swing mount. The fuel system needs to be modified to run on both tanks, this is done by drilling out the fuel valve. The most difficult part of the installation (If you do it yourself) is mounting the cowling. Make sure its not predrilled before you install it, it takes a lot of putting on taking off trimming etc to get it to fit nicely, and you will want to drill your own holes so it doesn't look like swiss cheese.
No, there is no additional tubing that needs to be installed to mount the 180 engine on Crosswinds STC. The engine mount is replace with a shorter swing mount. The fuel system needs to be modified to run on both tanks, this is done by drilling out the fuel valve. The most difficult part of the installation (If you do it yourself) is mounting the cowling. Make sure its not predrilled before you install it, it takes a lot of putting on taking off trimming etc to get it to fit nicely, and you will want to drill your own holes so it doesn't look like swiss cheese.
MileHighPeter
FRIEND
NW Indiana
:lol: Mike go to www.cub-club.com they have all the stc's.
Crash
GONE WEST
Nikiski Alaska
180 hp PA-12
At this point in time, I feel you would be better off to go with a PA-18 Widebody Airframes Inc fuselage (if you need the room) and a Penn Yan 180 hp conversion. You can get a full 28" wide rear seat that has almost no taper to the back edge. The PA-12 rear seat is around 30" in the front but tapers to 26" at the rear edge. The Widebody PA-18 will get off quicker, have a 2,000 lb gross weight (Wip STC), three good fuel tank options, better designed cowling, three different exhaust options, better fuselage!! (Airframes Inc vs Dakota Airframe), better and easier resale, better slow flight and shorter landings, two fuel system options, better trim system, better door access (less knee bend for us old timers) and a much shoter time to build up. The PA-12 is a great plane but given the choice between the two projects (180 hp PA-12 vs 180 hp WB PA-18), I would choose the Widebody PA-18. Take care. Crash
At this point in time, I feel you would be better off to go with a PA-18 Widebody Airframes Inc fuselage (if you need the room) and a Penn Yan 180 hp conversion. You can get a full 28" wide rear seat that has almost no taper to the back edge. The PA-12 rear seat is around 30" in the front but tapers to 26" at the rear edge. The Widebody PA-18 will get off quicker, have a 2,000 lb gross weight (Wip STC), three good fuel tank options, better designed cowling, three different exhaust options, better fuselage!! (Airframes Inc vs Dakota Airframe), better and easier resale, better slow flight and shorter landings, two fuel system options, better trim system, better door access (less knee bend for us old timers) and a much shoter time to build up. The PA-12 is a great plane but given the choice between the two projects (180 hp PA-12 vs 180 hp WB PA-18), I would choose the Widebody PA-18. Take care. Crash
fishcruiser
Registered User
Anchorage
PA-12
Cpt Kelley- For kicking around NC don't sell the PA-12 short. It is a cleaner airplane than the PA-18 ie keep the original gear configuration and just put tail feathers and flaps on it. The big problem is finding an easy way to put an O-360 on it using a short Dynafocal mount and very slighty modified cowl. There are several flying around AK that did this with a 337 because they found reasonable FAA people... (I am still looking)
Also if you study the specs a Husky wing is set more like a PA-12 than 18 and look at the gear.. So if you are flying aound the lower 48 or even on floats I think the 12 is still hard to beat.. If you are taking sheep hunters up into the AK range than there is nothing better than a PA-18.
Cpt Kelley- For kicking around NC don't sell the PA-12 short. It is a cleaner airplane than the PA-18 ie keep the original gear configuration and just put tail feathers and flaps on it. The big problem is finding an easy way to put an O-360 on it using a short Dynafocal mount and very slighty modified cowl. There are several flying around AK that did this with a 337 because they found reasonable FAA people... (I am still looking)
Also if you study the specs a Husky wing is set more like a PA-12 than 18 and look at the gear.. So if you are flying aound the lower 48 or even on floats I think the 12 is still hard to beat.. If you are taking sheep hunters up into the AK range than there is nothing better than a PA-18.
Crash
GONE WEST
Nikiski Alaska
Re: Crash.......
Huskys are probably a good plane, but not my cup of tea. I tried to lift the tail of a new one at the Ak Airmans show and about blew a disk. The 50 screws to remove the cowling didn't turn me on and cutting the bungees to switch to floats is back to 1947 PA-12 style gear, which most PA-12's have converted to PA-18 gear. They don't have as good of lines as a Cub. They look like a Cub that didn't push back from the dinner table soon enough.
My previous post was in no way meant to put down a PA-12. They are a great airplane. There is nothing like them (two in the back, one in the front). I was looking at it from the "choice" of building up a PA-18-180 or PA-12-180, starting with a new fuselage perspective.
I remember as a kid watching my dad load the back of his PA-12-115hp with 6 cases of beer, a case of blasting caps, two big burly construction guys and their stuff, then himself (6'2" 220lb) in the front seat and take off from Merrill field to a construction camp up by Fairbanks. Every weekend, the entire summer! It really didn't take that much runway to get off either. That was a box stock PA-12 with a different carburetor to take it from 108 hp to 115 hp. Crash
CptKelly said:
Huskys are probably a good plane, but not my cup of tea. I tried to lift the tail of a new one at the Ak Airmans show and about blew a disk. The 50 screws to remove the cowling didn't turn me on and cutting the bungees to switch to floats is back to 1947 PA-12 style gear, which most PA-12's have converted to PA-18 gear. They don't have as good of lines as a Cub. They look like a Cub that didn't push back from the dinner table soon enough.
My previous post was in no way meant to put down a PA-12. They are a great airplane. There is nothing like them (two in the back, one in the front). I was looking at it from the "choice" of building up a PA-18-180 or PA-12-180, starting with a new fuselage perspective.
I remember as a kid watching my dad load the back of his PA-12-115hp with 6 cases of beer, a case of blasting caps, two big burly construction guys and their stuff, then himself (6'2" 220lb) in the front seat and take off from Merrill field to a construction camp up by Fairbanks. Every weekend, the entire summer! It really didn't take that much runway to get off either. That was a box stock PA-12 with a different carburetor to take it from 108 hp to 115 hp. Crash
PA12Tray
Registered User
Bangkok, Thailand
Cowl
Scott,
I was talking about Charlies fiberglass cowl. The nose bowl, doors, upper and lower portions all need to be adjusted. If I remember correctly also the top cowl mount on the firewall needs to be moved down around the firewall. We did add extra support tab welded in, but at that time the plane was completely down and was easy to do. I think his STC just has it bolt through the firewall itself.
Tray
Scott,
I was talking about Charlies fiberglass cowl. The nose bowl, doors, upper and lower portions all need to be adjusted. If I remember correctly also the top cowl mount on the firewall needs to be moved down around the firewall. We did add extra support tab welded in, but at that time the plane was completely down and was easy to do. I think his STC just has it bolt through the firewall itself.
Tray
