carrying dogs in a Cub

Dennis Smith has established a column in STOL magazine for flying with pets, beginning in this quarter's issue.

I am going to make a tether to tie to Tex's harness to the seat belt so I don't have to hook it through the seat belt everytime we stop. I have to come up with an easily removable seat bottom for him since he likes to play in the river and then roll in the sand and dirt. The back seat needs a good cleaning right now.

Fly the cub with my dog ... modified aircraft ?

Hi guys

My boyfriend and I would like to go away for a couple of weeks in the cub, just traveling around.
My cub is a Supercub L18C.

We want to fly with our beloved dog, as she is part of the family...

I am brainstorming a way to modify the back of the Supercub so that she has a comfortable seat to travel.
She is not that light (belgian shepherd Tervueren, approx 25 kg).
About the schedule... let's say the sooner the better ! In my dreams I would love to be done with this within the next 72 hours.

So if any of you has a great idea, a stupid idea, a suggestion, or some previous work done for dogs... please share

Alexandra

I help fly dogs for a local sled dog race in the back of my cub. Most just lay down and sleep when we get in the air. I have the 3rd seat mod in my cub with tabs for seatbelts I put small carabiner in the tab and the dogs all have a very short leash on their collar to hook to the carabiners. Not sure how you cub is set up but the back seat belts usually have a triangle tab where it is bolted to the tab. A simple clip or small carabiner can usually clip in at that point. The big issue is you luggage space is now used up by the dog (she can sit on some of it). Do you have a rear stick cover, belly pod or extended baggage? I would not fly with her unleashed or anywhere she could get near the rear stick (on lap of passenger). If for some reason she get scared she may try to go to floor or into the front seat with you.
DENNY

Hi Denny

Thanks for your answer.
Do you have any pic ? What you describe is what I need to do.

The back of my cub is partially closed, so I will have to remove the existing installation, and find a way so that the battery (located behind) remains protected.
I will try to post a pic.

My boyfriend will seat behind, I have a control stick cover STC for the back seat that allows me to remove rear stick, but I will not remove it. My boyfriend is not a pilot but he can probably handle the airplane if needed so I prefer to keep the airplane flyable from behind.

Yes, the dog will have a short leash so that she cannot come to the front in case she panics.
She already flew a lot (she is ok but she is not fond of that), but she flew only once in the cub, she was on my boyfriend's knees. Was ok, but certainly not an option for a long trip

The resulting W&B will certainly not allow those short mountain strips I usually enjoy but flying all together will be great.
And you are right, we will have to travel with very little luggage

Alexandra

I use a chest harness rather than neck collar for more safety for you and the dog. Remove any electronic collar so they are not accidentally activated by radio or transponder activity. Hearing protection if the plane is too noisy for you.

Hi Jimbo

Chest harness : you are right, that is exactly what I intended to do, to make sure that any turbulence does not create a threat to the cervical vertebrae of the dog.

jimboflying said:

I use a chest harness rather than neck collar for more safety for you and the dog. Remove any electronic collar so they are not accidentally activated by radio or transponder activity. Hearing protection if the plane is too noisy for you.

Click to expand...

So, some pictures !

The back of my cub "before" removal

Once everything is removed

There is a battery to protect (fixed on the floor) and the lines connected to the rear header tank.
I will design protections.

She appears to be fine at the rear... at least in the hangar !



I will probably level her slightly higher
Maybe make a pillow for her with the aircraft cover ?

So, that is where I start...

This is from this morning.


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If the rear seat crossbar is fixed I would attach short harness to that. small suitcase flat on floor next to battery box, Dog on suitcase. Put D rings on floor next to battery box. Narrow tall suitcase/backpack on battery box with retention straps from overhead tubing to floor D rings. Dog food/water bowl behind battery box. Backpack/bag on each side of rear passenger. Take all advice with grain or shaker of salt as needed I am not a mechanic I just stuff a lot of stuff into my plane.

Alexandra, I merged your thread with several others on the same subject. If you go back to the first post you will find lots of ideas. Here is a link to pictures of flying with your dog as well.

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?32422-Post-a-Picture-of-your-Dog

You know why I love the US ?
Because of you ! ... US people

Had I posted this project on a French forum, I would have received only criticism and mockery.But here people are enthusiastic, they give ideas and share their own experiences.


That is Aviation
Thanks guys !

Thank you Denny for your detailed idea, that is inspiring.
Thanks Steve for the merge, great idea. I will read the whole topic. Your little dog is cute

Just some of my musings on this very popular topic:

I have not flown with my dog yet, though I've been pondering the matter for a couple of years now. Why the procrastination? First, I'm worried about his hearing. My exhaust has no muffler and it's really loud in the cockpit without our noise-cancelling headsets. I bought a pair of Mutt Muffs for the dog and tried them on myself :lol:. Frankly, they don't do much to muffle the noise, as far as I can tell. The hard-shell design might look cool but a simple elastic cloth headband over some sound-deadening foam, perhaps fastened with Velcro and with a strap to his collar so he couldn't pull them off forward - I think that would be a much better design.

My dog is almost a "Gerberian Shepsky", a German Shepherd-Husky (though not Siberian) cross. He's about 60 or 70 pounds. He can ride in the baggage, on top of a bunch of camping/survival gear (in summer, on floats, much of that stuff can go in the float compartments, leaving more room in the baggage for the dog). The trick will be to manoeuver him around the tubing in the PA-12 baggage. He will be secured with a short neck line to that tubing.

On our first flight I hope that my wife (who is not much of a "dog person") will try to calm him down and make sure his hearing protection stays on.

If he does well then he will ride in the back seat area when I have no passenger. I'll take the seat cushions out to give him more space and I have a plywood "cargo floor" that sits in place of the bottom seat cushion and extends right to the back of the front seat, with a box built-in over the rear stick stub. I have a blanket for him to lay on and he would, in this position, be clipped to the rear seat cross-bar. He'd have lots of room.

He is fairly well-behaved but I want to have a "minder" for that first flight.

Lap dog.

and they Fart with altitude!

Hi !

I understand all this.
My dog flew a lot in 4-seaters or 6-seaters, but I noticed that the main thing she seems to dislike is the noise.

I bought her some muttmuffs. I thought she would just throw them away, but in fact no, I think she noticed the difference so anytime she is in a plane, she won't remove them, surprisingly, and she appears to feel better.
Unfortunately those muttmuffs do not remain in place, a very light movement can make them slip, and I guess it is better than nothing but not perfect.
Moreover, she has big straight ears and I am sad that I have to fold them into the muttmuffs.

I recently discovered a French otologist who designed specific internal ear protections for dogs. Those are made on request for your dog, and used primarily as a protection for police dogs and army dogs. I think I will go and order a pair for her.

Here is the article, sorry it is in French but google can translate:
[sorry I could not post the link, I appear to be restricted... so I post a pic instead]



The guy says his final design remains on place in the dog's ear 95% of the time now, it was the main challenge when developing those plugs.

The other thing is that in a torpedo seat configuration like in the cub, the dog is behind and the eye contact (or hand contact) to help the dog relax is not easy.
Right now, she flew only once in the cub, on my boyfriend knees, a short 20 mn flight.
Things were alright but that was not very comfortable for my boyfriend



That is the reason why I made the decision to modify the back of the cub.

Alexandra

PS for Bindy : my dog don't fart... lucky I am... but she burps
PS2 : I just called the otologist, the price is 160 EUR, designed by molding your dog's ear. Those are filtered, the dog can ear your voice and there will be no pressure concern that would damage the internal ear of the dog by pressure change. I think I will invest in those plugs !

NunavutPA-12 said:

Just some of my musings on this very popular topic:

I have not flown with my dog yet, though I've been pondering the matter for a couple of years now. Why the procrastination? First, I'm worried about his hearing. My exhaust has no muffler and it's really loud in the cockpit without our noise-cancelling headsets. I bought a pair of Mutt Muffs for the dog and tried them on myself :lol:. Frankly, they don't do much to muffle the noise, as far as I can tell. The hard-shell design might look cool but a simple elastic cloth headband over some sound-deadening foam, perhaps fastened with Velcro and with a strap to his collar so he couldn't pull them off forward - I think that would be a much better design.

My dog is almost a "Gerberian Shepsky", a German Shepherd-Husky (though not Siberian) cross. He's about 60 or 70 pounds. He can ride in the baggage, on top of a bunch of camping/survival gear (in summer, on floats, much of that stuff can go in the float compartments, leaving more room in the baggage for the dog). The trick will be to manoeuver him around the tubing in the PA-12 baggage. He will be secured with a short neck line to that tubing.

On our first flight I hope that my wife (who is not much of a "dog person") will try to calm him down and make sure his hearing protection stays on.

If he does well then he will ride in the back seat area when I have no passenger. I'll take the seat cushions out to give him more space and I have a plywood "cargo floor" that sits in place of the bottom seat cushion and extends right to the back of the front seat, with a box built-in over the rear stick stub. I have a blanket for him to lay on and he would, in this position, be clipped to the rear seat cross-bar. He'd have lots of room.

He is fairly well-behaved but I want to have a "minder" for that first flight.

Click to expand...

Mutt muffs work great for my dog as long as I tighten the strap enough to hold them. It doesn't bother the dog at all when I cinch them up. A too loose chin strap is the cause of most Mutt Muff failures. 4Paws are harder to adjust but the ear cups may fit your dog better.

My dog is a happy passenger as long as she can see out a window occasionally. Especially when the power comes back to land. Yesterday she had a miserable space in between an outboard, fuel tank, storage totes, etc. She managed. All she wants to do is go so there was no hesitation when she hopped in back.

Naaalex said:

So, some pictures !

View attachment 32813 The back of my cub "before" removal

View attachment 32814 Once everything is removed

There is a battery to protect (fixed on the floor) and the lines connected to the rear header tank.
I will design protections.

View attachment 32815 She appears to be fine at the rear... at least in the hangar !

View attachment 32816

I will probably level her slightly higher
Maybe make a pillow for her with the aircraft cover ?

So, that is where I start...

Click to expand...

Alexandra:
I love taking my dog with me any time i can and it will start to become the "normal" thing for you.

I don't want to cause a thread drift with this but as you try to improve your baggage area for the dog you need to work on a couple of very serious issues.

Your fuel system has been modified to try and hide the header tank from view. In doing so the position of it and especially the line routing has made a perfect place to trap water. There is a good discussion here on fuel flow and system design issues
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?51320-Super-Cub-project/page2&highlight=Fuel+line

The battery installation / restraint looks very concerning for security. It almost looks like duct tape or fabric holding it down. You don't want that thing flying around. The wiring and fuel lines shouldn't be exposed to where any baggage could damage or snag it. The battery posts are not shielded from contact either.

The rear harness attachment to the crossbar behind the seat looks nice and tidy but in reality you are tied to a very thin crossmember that would not restrain anything and would most likely tear out at the attachment. Harnesses attached in that manner (if it held) would also give the wearer a "compression fracture" in a real crash. It should be mounted overhead. Atlee Dodge makes a bracket for that.

Again sorry for the thread drift but I like you too much to not say something.

Hi Cubpilot2

Don't be sorry. I really appreciate your message, that is very precious.

Since I bought this cub, I have worked on it every winter.
It's a nice plane, quite sane, the engine runs incredibly well.
But there are so many little things to be improved, many "homemade stuff" that I really dislike, especially due to the fact that the engine was replaced long time ago (now O200), but I think the modification was made by a kind of freestyle artist

Every winter is the start of a new work on this cub
So your remarks are great for me, those will be added to my todo-list, for sure.

I do agree for the battery, that is not a clean installation.
I did a quick fix yesterday for the dog but that is a short-term solution.
Very interesting for the water concern on the fuel system, I will read the discussion.

Happy landings !

Alexandra

Naaalex said:

Hi Denny

Thanks for your answer.
Do you have any pic ? What you describe is what I need to do.

The back of my cub is partially closed, so I will have to remove the existing installation, and find a way so that the battery (located behind) remains protected.
I will try to post a pic.

My boyfriend will seat behind, I have a control stick cover STC for the back seat that allows me to remove rear stick, but I will not remove it. My boyfriend is not a pilot but he can probably handle the airplane if needed so I prefer to keep the airplane flyable from behind.

Yes, the dog will have a short leash so that she cannot come to the front in case she panics.
She already flew a lot (she is ok but she is not fond of that), but she flew only once in the cub, she was on my boyfriend's knees. Was ok, but certainly not an option for a long trip

The resulting W&B will certainly not allow those short mountain strips I usually enjoy but flying all together will be great.
And you are right, we will have to travel with very little luggage

Alexandra

Click to expand...

Yep I fly dogs. Look at sled dogs in Cub. -20F at Skwentna flying dropped sled dogs from Su300 with Denny.

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Most Alaskan dog owners who take their dogs along are familiar with their dogs rolling in rotten fish carcasses or bear scat. Sometimes a belly pod would be the best place to put the dog! :lol:

stewartb said:

Most Alaskan dog owners who take their dogs along are familiar with their dogs rolling in rotten fish carcasses or bear scat. Sometimes a belly pod would be the best place to put the dog! [emoji38]

Click to expand...

Barnie was that way. He could smell a carcus at 2 miles. Dug through snow at Shell in December and got a rotten one sticking out of ice. Yew!!!!

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We fly with dogs for hiking and hunting all the time. We use mut muffs and 2 of the three keep them on unless they are tired. I see plenty of pictures of pilots with helmets and harnesses and wandering dogs. We have modified sled dog harness and hook in the dogs very short. 60+ lbs flying forward at 30-50 mph is probably not survivable by the pilot, passenger or dog. Heavy turbulence can also get interesting with unsecured loads also. Have fun and be safe!!

Hi Guys !

I finally did my trip with my man and the dog.







I would not say that is her best experience in life, but my baby dog behaved quite nicely.
But she was happy to go out and walk as soon as we land



She flew with her mutmuffs headset.
We finally met that audiologist who did these ears protections for her.

here is the earprint :



And the result :



The guy is Pierre Zajec in Quimper (LFRQ), very nice and professional.
He has already equipped several hundreds of police & army dogs.



We have not tried these earplugs yet, but on the next trip

Will keep you updated !

Alexandra

Made a flying hat for 'Sam" with padding from a size 44 womens intimate apparel. Seems to stay put well and only changes his voice slightly.