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Thread: Supercub Thrust Line

  1. #401
    kase's Avatar
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    Affimative someday. Right now extra fuel cost and my wifes new car are cutting into my airplane improvement fund.

  2. #402
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    I installed the Trustline mod on Steve Edwards 135hp Super Cub at New Hostein. He flew a GPS course and immediately realized a speed increase. I flew it and never had to touch the trim from take-off to cruise flight to a full flap landing. When i got on the ground Steve asked me about the trim. He had the same experience.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  3. #403
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    I now can honestly say I like the Thrustline mod.

    We put it on my 150 cub on floats. I fly survey for the state, spending long hours low level in cruise.

    Due to the constant heavy loads, I don't do much super slow work, but I immedatly picked up 6 or 7 miles an hour in speed.

    It has taken a while to get the attitudes correct, but will say that I found myself climbing all the time. Once I got it figured out, I realized that the plane was actually performing better in climb, so was more sensitive to pitch attitude.

    Takeoffs were better also. I figure I save myself between 20% and 30% of the time getting from plow to on step, a great place to save time.

    Once I get speed and jump out of the water, there is almot no hesitation to gain speed. I used to fly ground effect for a few hundred feet to build speed; now I come out, think speed and climb out at 60mph.

    We played hell getting it on the plane, so if again, Mark can come and do it himself, thankyou very much. Why should we get all of the fun? Gotta love a "stock cub" that has been ownerized by previous owners!!!

    Product support was better than excellent. Mark made himself available for questions, offered tips, was fantastic to deal with when delays had the kit on my bench for two months, and he kept reminding me to tighten the nuts after some hours.

    Thanks Mark, I look forward to you new and great mods you come up with.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  4. #404

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    Steve P echoed my experiences on the TL mod and trim. I noticed that when pulling the first notch of flaps the nose doesn't balloon up like previously.
    Lot's of subtle little improvements with the mod. When hauling the cub off with flaps in a short field takeoff the tendency to sink is gone, the nose stays up and you are climbing right away and the cub does get off shorter and climbs better. On landing slow, before it took a noticable power application to arrest the sink rate, now just a touch of power is needed.

    Hard to define all the improvements but the cub just feels lighter with power.

    Steve
    Dodge City America

  5. #405

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    I have the TL on my plane does anybody notice that you have to trim more or is that just me.

  6. #406

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    I havn't noticed the need to trim more. I did notice that when pulling flaps on approach, the need to retrim for different flap settings was noticably less.

    One thing I didn't test before the TL that others may have is that now with about 1800 rpm on the tach and full flaps the airplane will chug along very nose high and indicating about 10 mph. I am guessing before the mod the attitude would have been more flat.

  7. #407

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    You were doing a little High Alpha flying with the old cub, AH!

  8. #408

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    Refer to the F-18 Picture I have posted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It probally looks a little like that I suppose

  9. #409

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    Thrust line mod for PA-18

    I decided to give the thrust line mod a try on one of my cubs.
    With cash in my pocket I meet Mark the owner of Thrust line At Big Lake. Mark spent a hour wit with a digital level looking over my cub. He told me that he did not think this particular cub would benefit enough to make it worth the money to buy his mod. This cub has been repaired many times and is no longer straight. It preforms OK but is the only cub I have ever owned that did not like wheel landings.

    Mark acutely turned down my money and did not sell me his Trust line Mod. He and another A & P spent 2 hours fine tuning the rigging of my cub with digital levels. I was amazed THe cub now wheel lands like my other cubs and is 4 miles per hour faster at 2450 RPM. All this and I was only out $100. for the 2 hours shop time for the rigging.

    I am impressed with the results of what Mark did for my cub and plan on buying the thrust line mod for my other cub that I am rebuilding with a New fuselage and all new parts.


    The point of this Posting is let people know that Mark knows his stuff and is honest enough to turn down mony if he does not think his mod will help your cub.


    Jerry Jacques
    Likes cubpilot2, Cappt, Randy, C-FIJK liked this post

  10. #410
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Jerry, who's new fuselage frame did you buy?

    You oughtta measure it, too.

    Good for Mark, telling it like it is!
    Likes Randy liked this post

  11. #411

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    Mark has helped Me many times on the new Light Weight cub I am building to compete at Valdez next year.The word honest is Marks moto,unlike some people.Mike O.

  12. #412
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    No doubt about it, Mark is one helluva guy. I was lucky enough to meet him at Minam Lodge in Or. last month. What better way to stand behind your product than to tell you it wont help your plane. Name one other performance mod company that does that.

    Most of you guys have heard about Lonnie from the "big rocks long props" video. You may not see him post much on this forum, but I heard he thought the T/L mod was the most noticeable improvement to his cub other than the Borer prop. When it works, it works great.

    Jason
    N3673T
    Likes swedishcub liked this post

  13. #413
    Flying Miss Daisy's Avatar
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    I think Mark is great!. I have told him his motto should be no gain no pain

  14. #414

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    The new fuselage I have is from Airframes INC in Big Lake. It arrived in April the workmanship looks good. I will start that project next month
    and plan on installing the thrust line mod in that one. Mark tells me that with every thing straight the mod will work.
    Jerry

  15. #415
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kind words guys albeit a little on the embarrassing side

    Just to clarify Jerry's post. He came in about two months ago to Wasilla to get measured for the TL. His wings were visually out of rig with about a degree and a hlf too much twist and a bit too much dihedral. I asked him how it flew and he said it would not wheel land. I told him in theory we should be able to fix it. Did not have time to deal with it then as he was working a Beaver out west. He came in a week or so ago and we measured and rigged it to the book. Theory worked as he landed with a pretty big grin.

    For the folks at Minam flyin that heard me explain the rigging for a cub---I apologize that I am not much of a teacher. As I was explaining how simple cub rigging is, I noticed just a bunch of blank faces. I really am terrible trying to explain stuff to a group! But the above cub of Jerry's is a good example of the type of rigging we have been seeing now that we are putting the level on these cubs. Any more dihedral or twist than book--you will not get the performance you should be getting.

    In that little discussion at Minam I made the statement that somewhere on the strip there was a piper that was probably so far out of rig it would look deformed. The next morning a piper parked in front (50 yards away) of where Ag pilot-Kase- Wayne and myself were sitting. Huge amount of visible wash. I think we all saw it. I mean huge! I asked the owner if I could put the level to it and he said sure. It was a 5 degree twist between the wing root to the end of the aileron bay. His comment was just that it was always like that. Sure hope he re-rigs it and lets me know the result. Just some food for thought for those of you who assume your AC is rigged properly as we are finding a fair amount of them that are not.

    http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost...0&size=big&cat
    Above link shows cubs with different visable wing twists--cool photo

    A bit of a disclaimer here. I always work with an IA or repair station as I do not have any of the pedigrees---Just want folks to know that if you are taking any of my advice.

    Mark
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
    Likes carlbrun liked this post

  16. #416
    Flying Miss Daisy's Avatar
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    The thrustline kit that I won at the NH Fly In is now installed in 8439Y in Millinocket. Just got offthe phone with Jeff and he says the difference is huge on the landing and takeoff. The indicated speed in cruise was up to 105 mph. Will get my hands on her next week as work gets in the way along with WAD preparations.
    Thanks Mark
    John

  17. #417

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    Thrustline

    This is a first post for me because I am not into typing. I promised Mark I would tell what I thought about the thrustline. I feel any company with this much integrity deserves an honest feedback.
    Just before I was to install the TL I took the 160 HP Borer prop 31 BW 3" extended gear cub out for tests. About 10 minutes in the air I lost all all oil pressure (not good). To make a long story short, I landed safely but didn't have much time to do any tests. During rebuild to save time and money, I installed the TL. Since most all my flying is off airport, I will tell you what I think in that area.

    1. Better steeper climb out.
    2. In cruise, feels like the tail is a little higher. I think I have around 5
    mph faster cruise.
    3. Landings took a little getting used to but now are much slower,
    especially with weight. It's a little harder to see touchdown over the
    nose just before landing in real slow landings. I got better at just
    flipping the tail up to take a look and then landing tail low wheel
    landings, once on roll-out you can see great. Who cares if you can't
    see while taxing. I couldn't see before the TL anyway.
    4. Take off on rough stuff and popping flaps a little too soon, it doesn't
    sink back like it would before but just keeps climbing.
    5. Most noticeable, slow landings in a turn are much more stable.

    Sorry, there are no hard numbers like miles per hour but in my opinion the thrustline is an edge of the envelope mod where you don't look at the numbers anyway. I think this is a great company that really cares and I highly recommend the thrustline mod. The parts are superior and I really like the one piece lower cowl channels that I still need to install. My thanks to Mark!
    Thanks pfm thanked for this post

  18. #418

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    I also have the Thrustline, As far as not seeing over the nose it's something a person gets use to, I've been flying with the thrustline for about 7 months, I would never take it off. Some people don't like it because it changes the look. I had new cowling doors made to match everything up and to the untrained eye you could never tell. The performance is very nice. Getting back to not being able to see over the nose=== Fly a pitts! You diffently can't see over the nose, but after awhile you get use to it.

  19. #419
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    Looking for U-bracket engine mount take-offs from Thrustline folks. If you have a set you would like to part with let me know. For my experimental.

  20. #420
    Christina Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik
    If going from negative TL to zero TL is good, could going to positive TL be even better for STOL? (let's discount the visibility issue, because that's a given)
    Yes, it is.


  21. #421

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    Report

    Newbie here but not new to Cubs.
    I have been flying Cubs all year round for going on 34 years in Alaska.
    Floats, wheels, skis. big tires, Borer props (41-44), VGs, extended wings, extended flaps, droop tips, Hendricks tips and Hendricks tail feathers. 135, 150 160 180HP. Extended metal leading edge. This oil, that oil. Yadda. Flown lots of Cubs. Owned four over the years. Heard it all. I thought----
    Never even THOUGHT about the thrust line as a possiblity for performance enhancement. Heard of some nutjobs that put washers under the bottom mount lugs but considered them fringy freaks like the guys before VGs that beat the pucky out of their leading edge with a ball-peen for better performance.
    Pretty much heard (or spun) just about every Cub yarn concerning performance, technique, etc there is.
    Boils down to the mods I wouldn't give up. Fight me for em. Not going to give up my Borer prop, 30 inch tires, VGs, booster brakes, or belly tank.
    Kind of thought I tried it all. None of the other mods made much difference but those gotta stay.
    Now got to add one more item to the list. The Thrustline mod.
    Wow. Definitely a keeper.
    1958 PA18A Stock except 160HP, belly tank, VGs (orig microaerodynamics-- wing only) 82/44 McCaulley, Airstreaks.
    A really good performing Cub before the mod.
    Now:
    Way nicer handling at low airspeed. More controllable nearing stall with smaller bursts of power. Nicer sight picture at slower approach
    Shorter takeoff role
    Nicer climb.
    5 MPH faster cruise @2450---- Really!
    2 1/2" more prop clearance
    Haven't flown it heavy yet but have no reason to believe it won't be better there too.
    Maybe a little more abrupt stall at last 2 notches of flaps (yep, A models have an extra notch) but clean it just sort of settles with power on or off. No break.
    Most of the angle change occurred WITHIN the cowl.
    Very slight, cowling change. I seriously might have missed it had someone sneaked into my hangar and stuck the mod on while I was away.
    Best part is dealing with Mark Englerth. Super nice family guy. Very smart, solid knowledge foundation. Extraordinarily researched and implimented STC. Parts and paperwork first rate. Easy install (heh,heh--I just handed him tools)
    If you like prospecting with your Cub this should be required equipment.

  22. #422
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    I have been watching the progress on this one and thought I'd post the link. Maybe someone can post one of the recent pics. EDIT: Thanks for posting the pic below Steve---just the one I was thinking of.



    http://www.warrenaircraft.citymax.co...ge/3087553.htm

    I also wanted to comment on how the Leading edge exhaust fits to the Firewall with the TL mod. For those that have this exhaust you can see the increased FW clearance---this also allows you to get the full engine swing without the left rear stack contacting the boot cowl. The swing is usually limited with the Leading edge exhaust in the stock config(not a big deal).

    This Cub came out of Wayne's jig with known performance so I have very high hopes for the flight characteristics of this one. We should know in approx three wks time. Nice looking Cub and the progress at this stage is clipping right along. Been a real pleasure dealing with Scot and Mark.

    I try not to post much anymore on our product so that I don't appear to be a irritating salesman on this site. That said I would like to thank the last few pilot reports as the word of mouth sales are really what we want.

    Thanks

    Mark
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory

  23. #423

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    Thrustline

    Just wanted to drop a note and give credit to Mark at Thrustline. I rebuilt a 77 cub for a fella and installed the Thrustline at that time. I can't give a before and after testimony but, I can it does land and takeoff shorter than the other cubs I have flown. Thanks Mark

    Dan

  24. #424
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Dan

    Thank you for the post----just thought you should get the credit for your rebuild also. Hope you don't mind that I am posting a pic of it. It really is a nice looking cub. Link below since I still haven't figured the art of posting a pic in a post.

    http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost...137&ppuser=489

    Mark
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory

  25. #425
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Warren's got their recent rebuild flying. Saw this on their website. 150hp test flight video.

    http://www.warrenaircraft.citymax.co...loose_0003.WMV

    Mark
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
    Likes pfm liked this post

  26. #426
    Ruidoso Ron's Avatar
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    Mark,
    I got to see this Cub last week at Mark's new place. Outstanding, as is all his work. Also got to see the A Dodge cowl doors, made for the Thrustline mod. Ordered mine from Steve yesterday.

  27. #427
    Warren Aircraft's Avatar
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    thrust line

    Thanks Ron and Mark. Thanks to Steve from Attlee as well. Mark W. was real impressed with the new side cowlings for the thrustline from Attlee.

    This little airplane is impressive, it came out of Wayne Macky's jig (Thanks Wayne) flys straight, and jumps off the ground. It is the first SuperCub I have flown with the thrustline. I am impressed with the thrust line. I do want to fly it some more and try some techniques Mark Engreth suggested. You can pull back on it and it just wants to keep climbing. You can fly it extremely slow with no bad characteristics.
    Scot

  28. #428
    T.J.'s Avatar
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    Nice Cub!
    Hey, Are my eyes going bad or did I see a deer or elk behind the CUb about 3/4 through the vid?

  29. #429
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    T.J. - I saw two.

  30. #430
    Ruidoso Ron's Avatar
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    Looks like horses from the way they run. I recognize the airport as Hidden Valley (5TX0), Scott's home field. Some whitetails in the area, but not that big. Certainly won't be elk.

  31. #431
    Warren Aircraft's Avatar
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    Horses were loose that morning.
    Mark

  32. #432
    T.J.'s Avatar
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    Thanks. For a minute there, I thought I was going to have to get my eyes checked and quit drinking Beer!

  33. #433
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruidoso Ron
    Mark,
    I got to see this Cub last week at Mark's new place. Outstanding, as is all his work. Also got to see the A Dodge cowl doors, made for the Thrustline mod. Ordered mine from Steve yesterday.
    Hey Ron---glad to see you saw and liked the doors. Steve does do pretty good work. I think you will be pleased when you get your cub flying. Since it also came out of Wayne's jig the performance should be similar to the one the Warrens just did. I thought for a 150 hp cub with full fuel that it came off the ground pretty good in the video. Looking fwd to a complete pilot report from Scot sometime in the future if he gets to put more time on it--- but they sound very pleased.

    Mark
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory

  34. #434

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    Thrustline mod. saved my cub

    It was about 33 degrees at 2000 feet and I was half loaded with a guy in the back. I wanted to set down on the side of this ridge to film a giant bull. I planned to roll my wheels on this soft meadow first, before fully committing to land. Willow bushes and spongy grass tundra. I was excited about the moose and completely forgot to pull carb heat. I rolled my wheels for a short distance and she felt good so I pushed the throttle forward to go around, not much room left. The instant I needed power the most was right there, and it choked! I instantly reached up and pulled the carb heat for a half second. It caught! Jammed everything forward, no runway left, and then heaved on her! (This all took about three seconds.) I fully expected to crash. But I couldn't believe it! Ungodly high angle, super slow, full power, no runway, and she flew! It somehow grabbed ahold in a very abnormal attitude and actually flew. That Thrustline mod pulled me right out of the crashhole. My cub would not have made it if it was before I put that Thrustline mod on. It performs very simular to the cub in that Warren brothers video, breaks free, climbs and accelerates. Does not stagger at all in ground effect. Thanks Mark.
    Check http://www.greatlandproductions.com/PreviewVideos.html Click on preview High Spirits to see a short video clip of my cub jumping off a sheep strip.
    Mike

  35. #435

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    Mike, I had a similar experience with the TL mod. I was dropping range cubes in 50 lb. sacks and I landed at the DZ to check the debri pattern.

    I had approx 400' to take off and when I spun around and was in the process of taking off a 700 lb steer panicked and ran in front of the cub at about 200'. I usually pull full flaps and full back stick and then release stick pressure when the wheels come off. This time I held full back stick and flaps and expected the cub to mush and get very sloppy but it just kept chugging up hill very nose high and felt very, very slow but solid.

    I might have missed the steer pre TL but I know the cub wouldn't climb at that attitude previously. ATTA BOY Mark!!

  36. #436
    porti's Avatar
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    is the thrustline mod STC'd for a PA-12

  37. #437
    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    supercub thrustline

    howdy,

    promised mark i would post on his mod. as soon as i had some more time in this cub,as i had traded for it with the thrustline
    already installed.compared to my last cub without the mod,it
    seem's to out- perform in all areas.can't wait to get back to ak. next spring.
    31'' abw's,blr vg's,160 lycon,borer 82x42
    1.flat out@2800 rpm (borer 82x42 160 hp lycon)5000' elev. 70 degree's averaged 112.5 mph 4-way gps.
    2.stall 37 mph
    3.shorter take-off ,steeeeper climb out
    4.faster
    5.shorter & slower landing
    although i can't do a before and after comparision,i can say that this mod will not come off,and is one mods i will recommend that anyone who is after a mod that they can feel,this is it.
    mark, sorry we didn't get to do the mod to my cub at willow,but still might get to as the new owner still is trying to decide to add it on.he's got it hangered at my place at willow for the winter.
    for those that haven't had the pleasure of meeting mark or doing business with him,he'll talk cub's as long as you'd like,whether you buy his mod. or not,great product and back-up.

    happy holidays

    jr.

  38. #438
    Ruidoso Ron's Avatar
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    Jr.
    Where's the report on your new muffler?

  39. #439
    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    supercub thrustline

    ron.
    the number's posted were the base with the stock system,but that cold frount blew in and dropped temp's.i flew sat. and the speed's were way off by 8-12 mph, closest temp. is still -30 from base line.don't think i'll pull it to start over,sorry!
    easy installation,quality product,it's a bit louder,just don't know how much performance change.getting rid of the 50 hr. a.d. was worth the price.

    jr.

  40. #440
    Wayne Mackey's Avatar
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    cub

    Hi Scott,
    I just saw the vidio of the cub project. Nices looking plane and it looks to be a good
    preformer. This should be another shot in the arm for mark and all the work he has
    put into the thrustline project. Shows what happens when good frame angles, the
    thrustline mod. get together. Wayne


    P.S. Thanks for the good word on the jig work.

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