Supercub Thrust Line

Report

Newbie here but not new to Cubs.
I have been flying Cubs all year round for going on 34 years in Alaska.
Floats, wheels, skis. big tires, Borer props (41-44), VGs, extended wings, extended flaps, droop tips, Hendricks tips and Hendricks tail feathers. 135, 150 160 180HP. Extended metal leading edge. This oil, that oil. Yadda. Flown lots of Cubs. Owned four over the years. Heard it all. I thought----
Never even THOUGHT about the thrust line as a possiblity for performance enhancement. Heard of some nutjobs that put washers under the bottom mount lugs but considered them fringy freaks like the guys before VGs that beat the pucky out of their leading edge with a ball-peen for better performance.
Pretty much heard (or spun) just about every Cub yarn concerning performance, technique, etc there is.
Boils down to the mods I wouldn't give up. Fight me for em. Not going to give up my Borer prop, 30 inch tires, VGs, booster brakes, or belly tank.
Kind of thought I tried it all. None of the other mods made much difference but those gotta stay.
Now got to add one more item to the list. The Thrustline mod.
Wow. Definitely a keeper.
1958 PA18A Stock except 160HP, belly tank, VGs (orig microaerodynamics-- wing only) 82/44 McCaulley, Airstreaks.
A really good performing Cub before the mod.
Now:
Way nicer handling at low airspeed. More controllable nearing stall with smaller bursts of power. Nicer sight picture at slower approach
Shorter takeoff role
Nicer climb.
5 MPH faster cruise @2450---- Really!
2 1/2" more prop clearance
Haven't flown it heavy yet but have no reason to believe it won't be better there too.
Maybe a little more abrupt stall at last 2 notches of flaps (yep, A models have an extra notch) but clean it just sort of settles with power on or off. No break.
Most of the angle change occurred WITHIN the cowl.
Very slight, cowling change. I seriously might have missed it had someone sneaked into my hangar and stuck the mod on while I was away.
Best part is dealing with Mark Englerth. Super nice family guy. Very smart, solid knowledge foundation. Extraordinarily researched and implimented STC. Parts and paperwork first rate. Easy install (heh,heh--I just handed him tools)
If you like prospecting with your Cub this should be required equipment.

I have been watching the progress on this one and thought I'd post the link. Maybe someone can post one of the recent pics. EDIT: Thanks for posting the pic below Steve---just the one I was thinking of.



http://www.warrenaircraft.citymax.com/page/page/3087553.htm

I also wanted to comment on how the Leading edge exhaust fits to the Firewall with the TL mod. For those that have this exhaust you can see the increased FW clearance---this also allows you to get the full engine swing without the left rear stack contacting the boot cowl. The swing is usually limited with the Leading edge exhaust in the stock config(not a big deal).

This Cub came out of Wayne's jig with known performance so I have very high hopes for the flight characteristics of this one. We should know in approx three wks time. Nice looking Cub and the progress at this stage is clipping right along. Been a real pleasure dealing with Scot and Mark.

I try not to post much anymore on our product so that I don't appear to be a irritating salesman on this site. :roll: That said I would like to thank the last few pilot reports as the word of mouth sales are really what we want.

Thanks

Mark

Thrustline

Just wanted to drop a note and give credit to Mark at Thrustline. I rebuilt a 77 cub for a fella and installed the Thrustline at that time. I can't give a before and after testimony but, I can it does land and takeoff shorter than the other cubs I have flown. Thanks Mark

Dan

Dan

Thank you for the post----just thought you should get the credit for your rebuild also. Hope you don't mind that I am posting a pic of it. It really is a nice looking cub. Link below since I still haven't figured the art of posting a pic in a post.

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=13137&ppuser=489

Mark

Warren's got their recent rebuild flying. Saw this on their website. 150hp test flight video.

http://www.warrenaircraft.citymax.com/f/N91255_turn_me_loose_0003.WMV

Mark

Mark,
I got to see this Cub last week at Mark's new place. Outstanding, as is all his work. Also got to see the A Dodge cowl doors, made for the Thrustline mod. Ordered mine from Steve yesterday.

thrust line

Thanks Ron and Mark. Thanks to Steve from Attlee as well. Mark W. was real impressed with the new side cowlings for the thrustline from Attlee.

This little airplane is impressive, it came out of Wayne Macky's jig (Thanks Wayne) flys straight, and jumps off the ground. It is the first SuperCub I have flown with the thrustline. I am impressed with the thrust line. I do want to fly it some more and try some techniques Mark Engreth suggested. You can pull back on it and it just wants to keep climbing. You can fly it extremely slow with no bad characteristics.
Scot

Nice Cub!
Hey, Are my eyes going bad or did I see a deer or elk behind the CUb about 3/4 through the vid?

T.J. - I saw two.

Looks like horses from the way they run. I recognize the airport as Hidden Valley (5TX0), Scott's home field. Some whitetails in the area, but not that big. Certainly won't be elk.

Horses were loose that morning.
Mark

Thanks. For a minute there, I thought I was going to have to get my eyes checked and quit drinking Beer!

Ruidoso Ron said:

Mark,
I got to see this Cub last week at Mark's new place. Outstanding, as is all his work. Also got to see the A Dodge cowl doors, made for the Thrustline mod. Ordered mine from Steve yesterday.

Click to expand...

Hey Ron---glad to see you saw and liked the doors. Steve does do pretty good work. I think you will be pleased when you get your cub flying. Since it also came out of Wayne's jig the performance should be similar to the one the Warrens just did. I thought for a 150 hp cub with full fuel that it came off the ground pretty good in the video. Looking fwd to a complete pilot report from Scot sometime in the future if he gets to put more time on it--- but they sound very pleased.

Mark

Thrustline mod. saved my cub

It was about 33 degrees at 2000 feet and I was half loaded with a guy in the back. I wanted to set down on the side of this ridge to film a giant bull. I planned to roll my wheels on this soft meadow first, before fully committing to land. Willow bushes and spongy grass tundra. I was excited about the moose and completely forgot to pull carb heat. I rolled my wheels for a short distance and she felt good so I pushed the throttle forward to go around, not much room left. The instant I needed power the most was right there, and it choked! I instantly reached up and pulled the carb heat for a half second. It caught! Jammed everything forward, no runway left, and then heaved on her! (This all took about three seconds.) I fully expected to crash. But I couldn't believe it! Ungodly high angle, super slow, full power, no runway, and she flew! It somehow grabbed ahold in a very abnormal attitude and actually flew. That Thrustline mod pulled me right out of the crashhole. My cub would not have made it if it was before I put that Thrustline mod on. It performs very simular to the cub in that Warren brothers video, breaks free, climbs and accelerates. Does not stagger at all in ground effect. Thanks Mark.
Check http://www.greatlandproductions.com/PreviewVideos.html Click on preview High Spirits to see a short video clip of my cub jumping off a sheep strip.
Mike

Mike, I had a similar experience with the TL mod. I was dropping range cubes in 50 lb. sacks and I landed at the DZ to check the debri pattern.

I had approx 400' to take off and when I spun around and was in the process of taking off a 700 lb steer panicked and ran in front of the cub at about 200'. I usually pull full flaps and full back stick and then release stick pressure when the wheels come off. This time I held full back stick and flaps and expected the cub to mush and get very sloppy but it just kept chugging up hill very nose high and felt very, very slow but solid.

I might have missed the steer pre TL but I know the cub wouldn't climb at that attitude previously. ATTA BOY Mark!!

is the thrustline mod STC'd for a PA-12

supercub thrustline

howdy,

promised mark i would post on his mod. as soon as i had some more time in this cub,as i had traded for it with the thrustline
already installed.compared to my last cub without the mod,it
seem's to out- perform in all areas.can't wait to get back to ak. next spring.
31'' abw's,blr vg's,160 lycon,borer 82x42
1.flat out@2800 rpm (borer 82x42 160 hp lycon)5000' elev. 70 degree's averaged 112.5 mph 4-way gps.
2.stall 37 mph
3.shorter take-off ,steeeeper climb out
4.faster
5.shorter & slower landing
although i can't do a before and after comparision,i can say that this mod will not come off,and is one mods i will recommend that anyone who is after a mod that they can feel,this is it.
mark, sorry we didn't get to do the mod to my cub at willow,but still might get to as the new owner still is trying to decide to add it on.he's got it hangered at my place at willow for the winter.
for those that haven't had the pleasure of meeting mark or doing business with him,he'll talk cub's as long as you'd like,whether you buy his mod. or not,great product and back-up.

happy holidays

jr.

Jr.
Where's the report on your new muffler?

supercub thrustline

ron.
the number's posted were the base with the stock system,but that cold frount blew in and dropped temp's.i flew sat. and the speed's were way off by 8-12 mph, closest temp. is still -30 from base line.don't think i'll pull it to start over,sorry!
easy installation,quality product,it's a bit louder,just don't know how much performance change.getting rid of the 50 hr. a.d. was worth the price.

jr.

cub

Hi Scott,
I just saw the vidio of the cub project. Nices looking plane and it looks to be a good
preformer. This should be another shot in the arm for mark and all the work he has
put into the thrustline project. Shows what happens when good frame angles, the
thrustline mod. get together. Wayne


P.S. Thanks for the good word on the jig work.

Thrust line

Wayne,

Thank you. Mark W. does work hard on these restorations and he truely loves it. Like all the good restoration guys such as yourself, and Steve Pierce, just to name a few. (Iknow there is a lot more out there as well.)

Did you see the new video with some new footage? 8)

http://www.warrenaircraft.citymax.com/f/N91255_Dreams_0002.WMV

This little airplane just wants to fly. Mark E. (too many Marks in the Cub world) and I talked I wish I had a good before and after report but, unforutnately I don't.

What I do know is this Cub feels great coming off the ground as soon as the tail will fly. THis is very different than other cubs I have flown. Solid during slow flight high angle of attacks when most cubs would mush this one just keeps chugging.

I definately contribute that to the Thrust Line and your jig set up correctly. Mark from Thrustline has been working long and hard on this and in my opinion is on the money when he talks about a properly set up frame to go with the Thrustline. The combination of the two just can't be beat.

Great job and our thanks Wayne to you and your jig set up !!


If anyone out there is even considering this Thustline mod do yourself a favor and listen to Mark E. He does have a great product.


Scot








Scot

Scot,

That thing sure gets off good. You sure the wind was not howling?

Tell the new owner to leave it at Marks so I can fly it when I come up.

Lance

Mark does it again,was having some problems with the thrustline attaching correctly to the upper lugs on my new exp cub Mark had some new ones made in less than 10 days what a customer service guy.BEST MONEY YOU CAN SPEND ON A CUB. Thanks Mark ,Mike

I agree with mike. Best service youll ever get. great company to deal with, great mod, great guy. I wish there were more people like mark.

Mark, btw, when is that aileron mod coming?

Hey Lance,

I am looking forward to seeing you when you come up.

This little airplane does get off the ground. Glad you asked about the wind.

That thing sure gets off good. You sure the wind was not howling?

Tell the new owner to leave it at Marks so I can fly it when I come up.

Lance

Click to expand...

The wind on the dirt strip take off's was 10-15mph (see the wind sock at the end of the video 04:34).

The TO at 1:58 in the video is me 220 the owner 180 and over 1/2 full on standard 18 gallon tanks about 45 F again wind 10-15 mph.

The last TO 4:06 on video was just me 1/2 fuel same wind.

The landing / TO in the grass at Hidden Valley 3:00 on the video was me 220 wind very light 3-5 mph out of the south taking off to the north (tail wind). Mark had topped the airplane off with fuel and we had flown the airplane 25 minutes, fuel tanks indicating little over 3/4, the temp that morning was approximately 40F.

I told Gerald, the owner I thought we needed to keep it up here for further testing just to make sure it flew ok :lol:. He decided he would go ahead and accept it the way it was 8) .

Scot

Scot and Mark,
Finally watched the video of your most recent rebuild. Congratulations! Looks just like the other show pieces I've seen you turn out. It also looks like this one really performs on takeoff. Your video shows that certain cubs perform better and with improved characteristics, when we can add more improvements to the "sum of all things". Wayne's jig, his experience in building light well rigged cubs, and Mark's thrustline came together well with mine, and it looks like your latest wants to climb and accelerate from rotation like mine seems to. You guys had to be having a blast test flying that airplane. I feel lucky that I started my project back in October of 04, when I could take advantage of what has been learned from experience...... jigs that turn out good flyers, the thrustline, keeping a cub light, and a good rebuilder.
Wilbur
PS: I had to look at Charlie Aileron's video of my take off at NH again to see how similar the two airplanes rotate on takeoff.

Thrustline

Thank you Wilbur.

Mark Warren is the talent for the restoration. I just try to help him when I can. :roll:

I agree with you on the improvements. All the great modification producers/manufacturers make these airplanes fun to put together, and fly.

Mark Englerth has worked long and hard on the Thrustline and his contribution to the performance of SuperCubs and customer service is exemplary.


Thanks Mark E for your hard work, it really does show.


PS Wilbur we are hoping to have this one at NH this next year. Hmmm maybe we can see how simular they really rotate and TO . Of course we will need a good margarita for the debrief . Gerald says he wants to go.

Scot

Scot,
Sure would be great to see that airplane up there. Uh Oh, maybe I better fix the brakes on mine and do a little tweeking before then
Wilbur

I think this may be becoming the sites longest thread but after having the Thrustline Mod in 8439Y the 1970 Super Cub, that my father in law and I own, I can not tell Mark enough the difference it has made. The season has winded down at the WAD and among other things we got George some training over at Twitchells. Great old time instructor went up with both George and myself who has a PA12 and a ton of hours in a J3 and Super Cubs. After flying with us for a while the fellow commented on the characteristics of the landing and takeoffs. In his opinion the Super Cub was responding on the roll like a J3 in that there was a pronounced dip of the nose in the roll when the tail started to fly. This was happening long before he expected it and was not evident in other Super Cubs he flies in. He thought at first it was the VG's until I told him we had the Thrustline.
I personally have noticed that the landings can be shortened right up even with my rookie tendencies. It is true that after experimenting a bunch with it that you must purposely slow the airplane up dramatically and be down 10MPH below where you are used to or you will find in the round out that she wants to keep flying. I was making landings at Laconia where I was flaring at the threshold and stopping on the numbers consistently. Mark I am totally impressed with what this has done to 39Y and I am squaring away the left over issues from Finleyville that plague Daisy so I will get to really see the difference in her before she goes on floats.
I highly recomend this MOD along with the great customer service you get from Mark.
John

Hi Mark and Scot Warren,
Took a good look of your video clips of 91255. What a great job you guys do Gerald must be ecstatic. One question was the exhaust a LEES or Sutton.
Great Job and as always Thrustline and Marks no gain no money pain is fantastic for these Super Cubs and it shows in the video.
John