Useful Load for a PA12?

[Phil]

I am considering the purchase of a '47 PA12 with the O-235, recently rebuilt, no flaps, 36 gal fuel, stock airplane. What is it's useful load? I fly in West Central Florida from a grass strip. Hope to fly to Alaska with this group one day SOON. Wife and I together weigh 420 lbs ( don't tell Her ). Anyhow, full fuel, us, plus a few bags for traveling ? ? Will it work safely ? Phil Stewart ( presently flying '46 champ 7AC).

[rrb]

A pa-12 handbook that I have indicates that the original empty weight was 950 lbs (this may be different based on the rebuild) and gross in the normal category is 1750 lbs. It also shows that standard fuel is 38 gallons not 36. Based on those numbers it looks like you have 572 lbs to work with for pilot+passenger and luggage. I'd look for additional verification of these numbers but it sounds like you'd be in the clear.

[mvivion]

And if you find a 12 that actually weighs under 1000 pounds, you'd better either double check the weights, or buy it quick.

Course, it wont' have an electrical system, or any instruments, or any interior.

950 is a nearly impossible number for a 12.

MTV

[Cub junkie]

What is a realistic empty wt. for a 12 when it is rebuilt with the emphasis on "keep it light" (flaps) otherwise,minimum extras? Kevin

[PA-12 Lover]

My PA-12 with O-320 150 hp, borer prop, flaps, PA 18 tail, PA 18 gear +3", Scott 3200 tailwheel, Cleveland brakes, Atlee dodge float fittings and cables, B&C alternator and starter, etc. etc. is 1192 lbs. weighed on real scales with oil and unusable fuel.

[mvivion]

I'd say that's a really nice number for a 12, but realistically achievable.

MTV

[85Mike]

My 12 with all the above mentioned plus Xtd wings, Xtd flaps, GAR twheel, Atlee tanks and Ffittings, 1935 GW kit, 0-360 & 8241prop weighs 1251 with oil. We tried to make it light with composit floor etc. then fell for a leather interior!!! Go figure!!??!!
Mike

[fishcruiser]

I have PA-12 that sounds very similiar to "PA-12 Lover" plane and it weighed in just below 1200 pounds. 85M's PA-12 sounds mighty nice with the HP-empty&gross wgt combination.

[kxo300]

Wow! lot of 12 flyers out there. mine comes in at 1165# - 320, flaps, 3" extended gear, 8243 borer, 850/6's, extended baggage and scott wheel. The extra room - priceless

[klm_ak]

I'm not sure we're answering the original question, but weight comparison for differing configurations of my plane:
4451M from Factory with electrical system/starter/gen, 8.00x4 tires, 0-235--987#
4451M with 0-290D2, flaps, D&N tips, ext baggage, 18 gear/feathers, 8.50x6--1151#
4451M with 0-320, f/t/xb/18g-f, borer, but with light battery/starter etc--1158#
4451M with gross weight increase, extended flaps, AL floorboards, 48 gal tanks, two doors, lots more mods,--1222#
All of these are with oil and unusable fuel.

As for flying a 100 hp PA-12 to Alaska from Florida, based on my limited experience (just returned from my first AK-NM round-trip yesterday), I'd say fill the plane with you, the wife, all of your baggage, full fuel and take it out flying on a nice hot day.

If you can climb to 12,000 ft full up, you should be okay on just about any route (most valley routes only require 4500 MSL or so, but the long stretches are straighter and easier on fuel higher up, and if you can climb to 12K you should have enough performance for most strips). If you both can sit for 450 nm without stopping, you can probably handle the trench route (430 nm without fuel). The fuel stop distances are considerably shorter along the highway.

Bring your credit card, fuel is about 1.20/liter in Canada right now.

[Student Pilot]

Ever thought of a shortwing Piper? if your not operating out of extremely short strips one of the shortwings might be worth thinkng about.

A TriPacer or PA22-20 will operate out of 4 or 500 metres with a full load no problems, and with an empty weight of 1150 and AUW of 2000 it's a pretty usefull load. Iv'e heard of blokes putting 4 big adults, full fuel and and the luggage full and still getting out in 500 metres.

A Tri with the back seat out makes for a pretty good pickup and cruises 20 knots quicker than a Cub. An added plus is price, a TriPacer would be up to $30,000 cheaper.

Even with the nosewheel a Tri makes a resonable bush machine, not everybody flies into 50 metre gravelbar strips. If you can get around the macho bullshit that seems to come out when nosewheels are mentioned they work OK in everything but the roughest strips.