• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Taxiway Blocked?

bob turner

Registered User
Drives me nuts, seeing these instructors with ten page after start checklists. One in my alley takes ten minutes. Includes a VOR check.

We have a new flight school parked along a taxiway serving about 75 hangars. The school pulls their aircraft out to the taxiway centerline, mills around smartly, etc. I personally go around them, using an alley that serves a pair of maintenance hangars.

Today two things happened. First, I returned from my daily landings to find all alleys to my hangar blocked. I did fine, between a fuel truck and a mechanic’s pickup. I had a foot either side, and wing walkers. My buddy in the other Cub got his picture taken going around the blocked area using an empty tie down spot and the maintenance alley.

I had already alerted management to the potential for serious tie-ups - picture a pair of Bonanzas getting into a traffic jam! But I told them we were working on an equitable solution.

Then the owner of the flight school showed up, miffed that we were going around his airplanes. He said the area we were using was “unauthorized.” That, of course, is news to me - I just taxi so I don’t hit anything, and if that means across an empty tie down, what’s the big deal?

But I am sure the other shoe will drop tomorrow. I will let you know. Is it possible that Cubs will now have to follow orange center lines? I bet they are just jealous!
 
Some things I miss about being at “real” airport but deffinately not the taxi-way Bogarts. If I had stayed, I would have had to install air-horns on both planes.
 
Last edited:
Glad I live off the beaten path. I taxi straight out of my hanger, across a taxiway into the grass, across another taxiway and into the grass my son mows along the runway that we use as a landing area. It was brought up as an issue years ago but luckily one of the powers that be saw no issue with it and convinced the mamby pambies there wasn't one.
 
Bob, I believe that long checklists with the engine running were developed by a guy trying to build time....

sj
 
There were some students at a local airport with the airplanes tied down outside with the engines running while they were in the lobby logging time.
 
There were some students at a local airport with the airplanes tied down outside with the engines running while they were in the lobby logging time.
What a waste. Just sitting inside while all that flying is being paid for. It shows where their priorities lie.
 
Not related, of course, but we have instructors who insist on blocking the runway, switching to tower, and "holding short, requesting takeoff". Then they go around the pattern once, with two mile upwinds and finals, to a full stop. The hapless student learns little of use - maybe intro to cross country?

These same instructors will ask for a short approach. That reduces their final to one mile.

I will contribute again this evening after airport management forbids us from taxiing across an empty tie down spot. I will of course ask if I can stop on the spot, then proceed. Answer should be interesting.

They make this stuff up as they go along.
 
There were some students at a local airport with the airplanes tied down outside with the engines running while they were in the lobby logging time.

We used to joke that you didn't get credit for combat pay while playing 'Call of Duty'. Looks like these guys figured a way around that idea!

Web
 
These are quite effective distractors during long, flight school checklists:
: DE929129-4875-474A-A3B5-AAB091C0F57D.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • DE929129-4875-474A-A3B5-AAB091C0F57D.jpeg
    DE929129-4875-474A-A3B5-AAB091C0F57D.jpeg
    18.8 KB · Views: 301
Then the owner of the flight school showed up, miffed that we were going around his airplanes. He said the area we were using was “unauthorized.”

This is just a typical bully's "appeal to nonexistent authority" argument. In his mind, he's the big shot who authorizes everything. Your response needs to be "What "authority" regulates access to the tie down area at this airport and and what written rules are you referring to?" followed by "Where do I submit the bill for the avgas I am burning while your students are obstructing the normal flow of traffic to and from the hangar I am paying the airport rent for?" As you are walking away, remind him that the flight school can hold up your one plane, but your one plane can easily hold up an entire flight school on a VFR Saturday.
 
I got myself into an argument with a lower 48 CFI the other day over this. I noted how many flight schools and /or CFIs were padding the log books with slow cross country taxi's and what should be ground instruction taking place in the cockpit with the motor idling.

I do all my radio stuff with students ( whom I call clients) before engine start.
And I charge flight time. Not goof-off time.

Needless to say, my opinions and methods were not very popular over on the CFI blog site with all the 12 year old CFIs fresh out of school.
 
Step 2. Offered the flight school a suggestion - start engine, taxi to spot A or B, then buckle up and run the checklist. He instantly got defensive, then belligerent. Had friendly discussions with apron lessees. We are working on it.

The funny thing - if the complainer were not blocking the taxiway we wouldn't have to go around him. And why on earth does he care if we don't hit his airplanes? More tomorrow, probably.
 
What a waste. Just sitting inside while all that flying is being paid for. It shows where their priorities lie.

It wasn't a total waste The instructor went to the Hard 8 for an hour and had lunch while the student was building time on the ramp
 
Often, the simplest answer is the best resolution. A taxiway between hangars is for orderly movement of aircraft. Blocking the taxiway is counterproductive to orderly movement. If they cannot startup and taxi almost immediately, then they need to tug the aircraft to a tie down spot, or other ramp area not blocking aircraft movement on taxiways. Courtesy, Etiquette, versus being a dickwad. Airport management should support orderly movement versus blocking taxi lanes. Does he really want to play the dickwad game? Other leasees like you, might play with a capital “D”.
 
Bob, bring some of the boys from the South Bay / Logan Heights regions for your next discussion. You know, the fellows with the dark-tinted-window Acuras, and such. Offer to give 'em all plane rides, then they'll see first-hand the obstruction and can initiate a conversation. Ha!!
 
Last edited:
How about buckling up first - then start engine--etc--------!

That's what I was taught from my first lesson. But my current CFI suggests not to buckle-up until after engine start as fire is most likely after start and egress would be easier. I do what he wants for my BFR but confess I buckle-up first otherwise.......

That said, I was safety officer in a military flying club with a large fleet of C150's and we did have several losses from induction fires probably because of pumping throttle instead of using primer. I chalked it up to poor training. Two total losses over about 10 years/students were buckled-up and still managed egress. Several other fires with less damage. Majority were students of one CFI.

Oh well,

Jack

PS. I buckle-up
 
Bob, you need to move to Graham, TX. We will get your airplanes in a hanger, we have two grass landing areas and no flight school to get in the way just an occasional student from the Dallas/Ft. Worth metro mess.
 
That's what I was taught from my first lesson. But my current CFI suggests not to buckle-up until after engine start as fire is most likely after start and egress would be easier. I do what he wants for my BFR but confess I buckle-up first otherwise.......

That said, I was safety officer in a military flying club with a large fleet of C150's and we did have several losses from induction fires probably because of pumping throttle instead of using primer. I chalked it up to poor training. Two total losses over about 10 years/students were buckled-up and still managed egress. Several other fires with less damage. Majority were students of one CFI.
A friend of mine taxiied his 172 to the fuel pumps before being buckled up and fell out. It takes one nano second to unbuckle and it can get pretty darn bumpy taxiing around. I assume a good number of these students are foreigners wearing epaulets.
 
Saw a guy taxi a super Cub to put it in another hanger put it on it's nose. When it started he wasn't buckled in and went forward aggravating the situation. I wear a seat belt whenever I start the engine.
 
On the water, I don't put on the belt until I am getting ready to launch. long taxis can be normal, and having to jump out and fend off can be a quick need. Also, trying to get an IO-anything hot started in current, wind and waves can be a challenge before your wing tip is in the boat that pulled up to watch...

That said, Bob- have you gone inside the flight school and gently discussed the issue with the instructors and owners? Explained that other aircraft need to use that taxi way, and if they want to run 10 minute checklists, there are plenty of other areas, not blocking the route, (like the tie down you used) that they could be out of the way?

If not, you need to do that- start nice.

If so, maybe if a particular day you and your flying buddy each had flat tires, one on either side of the flight school's mess, and had to change tires while they waited, it might develop understanding...

Otherwise, you just have to be patient- you choose to live in the land of fruits and nuts.8)
 
40 years ago I worked at a shop that had singer Lou Reed "Take a walk on the wild side" as a customer. He had a cabin on a dead end road in the woods by the Delaware Water Gap. He was a very strange reculse type person. We had a IHC Scout for sale with a plow. He bought it and kept it in NYC as his daily driver's. He left the plow on all year, said he never had a problem again driving in city traffic. Bob, if nice fails you need to get more creative.

Glenn
 
40 years ago I worked at a shop that had singer Lou Reed "Take a walk on the wild side" as a customer. He had a cabin on a dead end road in the woods by the Delaware Water Gap. He was a very strange reculse type person. We had a IHC Scout for sale with a plow. He bought it and kept it in NYC as his daily driver's. He left the plow on all year, said he never had a problem again driving in city traffic. Bob, if nice fails you need to get more creative.

Glenn

Lol! I was just thinking that no airplane ever argues with the snow plow. But a plow might be a little unusual in southern Cal.

Web
 
Back
Top