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Ferrying a Super Cub to Bolivia

DJ

MEMBER
Bolivia
Looking for ideas/advice on putting ferry tanks in a Cub.
Planning to go the Caribbean route with the longest required leg being just under 700sm. The plane is an experimental 180 hp Super Cub with stock tanks, (no headers) a cargo pod and 35s. Shipping the 35s and pod is not really an option. I figured that to have climb fuel and 2 hour reserve I'll need around 90 gals usable to make 700 miles.
 
1. Get a old 90 gal spray tank with pump and strap it on the belly. (YOU LOOSE THE POD)
2. Keep pod and put fuel bladder in pod and back seat with pump. (spend money)
3 9 Bushwheel bags in pod/back seat refuel at piss stops.
DENNY
 
Looking for ideas/advice on putting ferry tanks in a Cub.
Planning to go the Caribbean route with the longest required leg being just under 700sm. The plane is an experimental 180 hp Super Cub with stock tanks, (no headers) a cargo pod and 35s. Shipping the 35s and pod is not really an option. I figured that to have climb fuel and 2 hour reserve I'll need around 90 gals usable to make 700 miles.

Your only realistic option is a 60 gallon Turtlepac on the back seat, but even then this is a stretch and that would be heavy and behind your CG. With that Cub's cruise speed the effects of any unexpected headwind could be disastrous. I think this is an unwise undertaking. Your margins are narrow.

https://www.turtlepac.com
 
Planning to go the Caribbean route with the longest required leg being just under 700sm. The plane is an experimental 180 hp Super Cub with stock tanks, (no headers) a cargo pod and 35s... I figured that to have climb fuel and 2 hour reserve I'll need around 90 gals usable to make 700 miles.
Just thinking out loud. This is what I would plan on doing. But then I wouldn't even think of that distance over water without floats under the plane or two engines and lots of fuel.
700 miles between possible landing locations.
A carburetor 180 Lyc at 75% burns roughly 10 gph. Yes you can pull the throttle back for less fuel burn with the accompanying loss of speed.
What is the cruise speed of this Cub, 80-85 mph? Let's call it 70 mph to account for unplanned head winds. It doesn't take much of a head wind to drop a Cub's ground speed a lot.
700 miles @ 70 mph = 10 hours plus 2 hours reserve = 12 hours X 10 gph = 120 gallons.
120 - 36 = 84 gallons extra. 84 gallons = 11.2 cubic feet. Or 504 extra pounds of fuel.
You need a 11.2 cubic foot tank in the back seat area. Build it so that the front of the tank is against the back of the front seat. Pay attention to the CG location expecting an over weight situation. The Cub will handle the weight as long as the CG is within reason. A custom built aluminum tank for this purpose is common for long distance ferry flights.

Your tolerance may be different than mine. Having been in situations where there was nowhere to go for more gas, with unexpected headwinds, flying for nearly an hour with the gauges on E, I consider the above a minimum. If you have an accurate fuel flow meter on board you may be able to tighten the requirements a bit.
 
Just thinking out loud. This is what I would plan on doing. But then I wouldn't even think of that distance over water without floats under the plane or two engines and lots of fuel.
700 miles between possible landing locations.
A carburetor 180 Lyc at 75% burns roughly 10 gph. Yes you can pull the throttle back for less fuel burn with the accompanying loss of speed.
What is the cruise speed of this Cub, 80-85 mph? Let's call it 70 mph to account for unplanned head winds. It doesn't take much of a head wind to drop a Cub's ground speed a lot.
700 miles @ 70 mph = 10 hours plus 2 hours reserve = 12 hours X 10 gph = 120 gallons.
120 - 36 = 84 gallons extra. 84 gallons = 11.2 cubic feet. Or 504 extra pounds of fuel.
You need a 11.2 cubic foot tank in the back seat area. Build it so that the front of the tank is against the back of the front seat. Pay attention to the CG location expecting an over weight situation. The Cub will handle the weight as long as the CG is within reason. A custom built aluminum tank for this purpose is common for long distance ferry flights.

Your tolerance may be different than mine. Having been in situations where there was nowhere to go for more gas, with unexpected headwinds, flying for nearly an hour with the gauges on E, I consider the above a minimum. If you have an accurate fuel flow meter on board you may be able to tighten the requirements a bit.

I would do the above, plus give yourself a 4-7 day window an pick a time when you have a nice tailwind.
 
Also educate yourself on the "trade winds" in the Caribbean. In some locations you will have a tail wind at a particular altitude and a head wind at another altitude. Needless to say there is more to this flight than just gasoline.
 
I appreciate the ideas....I've done the route southbound twice and northbound twice (in faster airplanes) and the winds weren't too bad either time. The land route through Columbia has even longer required legs.
35s don't fit in the pod or in the back seat. The 60 gal turtle pac bladder was the original plan. Have looked at a 60 gal Sorensen tank but the owner wants $2K without plumbing or pumps (and I loose my pod like Denny said).

With the Caribbean route the longest overwater distance between islands is pretty short (less than 70 miles) as long as I follow the island chain.

I have an accurate fuel flow meter. I should know later this week what cruise speeds I can get with the 35s. I'm hoping for 83 mph indicated at 9.5K and 9 gph which will give me 100 true, minus a 10 mph headwind is 90 true. I will go higher than 9.5K if possible. 17 gals of reserve and 5 gals for the climb gives me 680 miles safe range on 90 usable. My longest leg would be 670 in Brazil.
The big question is how to get the fuel in the plane.
Does anyone have a big ferry tank or bladder (or two smaller ones?)
 
thinking out loud.. not simple..

how much fuel do 35's hold? how would you transfer it in flight?

wasn't there a mini dirt bike decades ago with fuel in the tires?? I can picture it, just can't remember the name of it... even seen one for sale up here...
 
Most of the 180 cubs tend to be pretty fast even with 35's. Depending on the prop you should be able to do 90 with a 8 gal/hr fuel burn. To get the fuel to the tanks put a T in the line with a one way valve and a 12 v fuel pump. As tank gets low add until full, don't forget to turn pump off, repeat until home. A good fuel flow is the key. Do you usually carry a raft and PLB?
DENNY
 
This one has an incidence of 7 degrees, a Catto 86/38 and TK1s. I'm afraid its slower than most. Getting the fuel burn down to 8 or less would really help the range. Will have life vests, a PLB, Delorme Inreach, Laser Flare and Spot, still working on borrowing a raft. I figured I would T into the left tank and use it primarily. That way I could keep the right tank full for the reserve.
 
I have a metal cruise prop in the classified section that gave me a honest 110mph on 180hp. It uses the same bolts as the Catto and my plane is setup the same as Dans with the exception of 31s.
 
I’m curious why not ship the Bushwheel’s? Is there a Customs tax or? Seems you’d increase speed and thus save gas enough to pay for shipping.

Or not.

if you didn’t have the pod to deal with I’d suggest finding a Soenson belly tank.

Otherwise, it seems like a ferry tank behind the pilot seat is your only option.

MTV
 
thinking out loud.. not simple..

how much fuel do 35's hold? how would you transfer it in flight?

wasn't there a mini dirt bike decades ago with fuel in the tires?? I can picture it, just can't remember the name of it... even seen one for sale up here...

ok maybe not hard.... to me...

the one hour of thought solution to carrying fuel in the 35” tires….


dual transfer collar on face of rim, with inflatable seals
one hole under one track of transfer collar in rim with tube and weight on it so it always lays at bottom of tire(this might be exterior/interior transfer from tire to transfer ring, think like valve stem)
other hole/track in transfer collar to air valve stem, to pressurize tire to push fuel, and inflate tire to proper pressure after fuel transfer…


other parts,
small air pump(s?) pressure gauge & switch
valve(s)?
fuel line to gas tank


that cures the getting it out of tire….
getting the gas In the tire probably need kick stand under axel while you fill tire with fuel… (how?? gas cap is what??)
 
Yes the taxes would be $1000-1500, plus shipping, and I wouldn't see them for 6 months plus unless they went air freight ($$$$)
 
I think it would require re-rigging everything and refitting windshield etc. The aileron cable runs above tubes in the top deck. I guess I can't picture an easy change.
 
I think it would require re-rigging everything and refitting windshield etc. The aileron cable runs above tubes in the top deck. I guess I can't picture an easy change.

cable would be below tubes then....

making fairing would be easy...
 
actually,
getting fuel into the tires would be easy... it would already be plumbed to transfer FROM tire to TANK... so you would just fill tank, transfer to tires, then refill tanks...
 
actually,
getting fuel into the tires would be easy... it would already be plumbed to transfer FROM tire to TANK... so you would just fill tank, transfer to tires, then refill tanks...
Beginner's question here. You're talking about using the aircraft-mounted tires as holding tanks for gasoline to be transferred in flight? I must be misunderstanding this - tires and gasoline don't mix and gas dissolves tires, not to mention hot brakes and vapors. What am I missing?
 
What about....thinking about a radar dome on the E3 Sentry....something like a roof mount car luggage carrier? Cept...it would look like an oblong drop tank mounted above the fuselage....Structure is there...wing attach fittings.. streamline tubing to create the tank support structure... plumb into one of the fuel level sight gauges and install a little ball valve...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Beginner's question here. You're talking about using the aircraft-mounted tires as holding tanks for gasoline to be transferred in flight? I must be misunderstanding this - tires and gasoline don't mix and gas dissolves tires, not to mention hot brakes and vapors. What am I missing?

same company that makes the bushwheels make rubber fuel bags, so they probably know how/what....
 
What about....thinking about a radar dome on the E3 Sentry....something like a roof mount car luggage carrier? Cept...it would look like an oblong drop tank mounted above the fuselage....Structure is there...wing attach fittings.. streamline tubing to create the tank support structure... plumb into one of the fuel level sight gauges and install a little ball valve...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

thats a heck of a good idea.... have to get randy at carbon concepts on it.... http://www.carbonconceptsak.com
 
Yes the taxes would be $1000-1500, plus shipping, and I wouldn't see them for 6 months plus unless they went air freight ($$$$)

do you need 35's down there? can you load enough fuel and stow the 35's?

hows the oil burn in that machine?

would sure have an alternate (possibly mechanical) pump in place.. just cause.

super-cruse prop

wait for the winds!

fill the belly

thats a knee knocker! :smile:
 
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