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C-180 flap operation safety

CubDriver218

Registered User
Minnesota
We just had a bad accident up here that likely wouldn't have been as bad had the airplane been outfitted with shoulder harnesses. All he had was a lap belt.
It got me thinking about our Cessna 180. We have hooker harnesses in them which I think would do a great job, however we can not wear them tight during take off and landing (which is the only time people crash) because you cannot lean forward to reach the flap handle so we're almost all the time flying around with our inside should strap lose enough to reach the handle. Well, you may not even be wearing one if you flip over.
What are the 180 cognoscenti (word of the week now) using?
the "EZ Flap handle" or just going to inertia harnesses?
Ours are not on inertia reels.
Do the people who have the EZ Flap Handle like it?
We also need to get the seat stop deal Cessna was giving out a few years back.

Thanks,
 
The only time I can't reach my flaps with my Y straps cinched is the first notch. I loosen the harness to grab that notch and tighten it again. That would be done on downwind so no real crash threat. My flaps are always at 20 or 30 for takeoff and I set that before rolling so it's easy to tighten my harness for takeoff. Release to 10 and once stable release some strap and go to zero flaps. Personally I prefer manual Hookers and never wanted intertia reels.

Cessna locking reels on the seats are a good mod.
 
i have the hooker inertia in the 12 and love them and not in the 180, in the cessna i have the same issue with the flaps as you and will be changing them to inertia this winter. IMO well worth the $ especially on floats!
 
Richard,

Order a set of BAS harness sets. They are not inexpensive, but they work. As you correctly point out, most folks who fly with fixed harnesses tend to keep them somewhat loose, for the reason you point out. The human body is a very fluid thing during a rapid deceleration. Then again, many inertial reel harnesses bind up or otherwise perform unsatisfactorily.

The BAS harness has eliminated tangles, failure to lock up in a deceleration, and other issues some other harnesses experience.

A BAS harness saved my life after a crankshaft failed in Flight. Pictures are on BAS web site. I don't get a cut, but I will tell you that the BAS harness system is simply the best harness system you can buy.

What is your life, and the life of your passenger worth?

http://basinc-aeromod.com/

MTV
 
I immediately put the BAS in both the 170 and the 180 when I first got them. I had told our friend Randy to do that as well. I wish he would have listened.

In the 180, I put in the ones that the harness and belt are connected on each side, so you don't have to jack around with putting all the little slots in line (I hate those twisty ones especially) and can just buckle in. There are a few minor drawbacks to this system, but I would put it in again.

sj
 
I have the BAS harnesses in my 53 model and really like them. Besides allowing you to reach the flap handle, inertia harnesses allow you to lean forward and move around in the course of the flight, like when scanning for other aircraft in a high traffic area-- without loosening the harnesses. You just put them on at the beginning of the flight and literally forget about them until it's time to take them off.
 
The idea that manual Hooker Y harnesses need to be overly loosened to reach the first notch of flaps is exaggerated. I can wear my straps to allow me to reach the flaps, pull the yoke all the way out, and lean forward and my face isn't even close to contacting the yoke or panel. Not an issue. On the other hand I can cinch up tight for a challenging departure or landing. I have no criticism of inertia reels but prefer manual control. Is there any data to compare accident injuries between inertia reels and manual Y harnesses? I've never seen any. All Y harnesses are an improvement over the stock diagonal strap with the short stud that engaged the lap buckle. With those you wriggle out from the strap to reach flaps.

You guys have added shoulder restraints to the rear seats, too, right?

The preface of the topic was an injury accident where the pilot had no shoulder restraints. I can't imagine flying without shoulder restraints. They're mandatory equipment for me. Which ones are best is less important.
 
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The idea that manual Hooker Y harnesses need to be overly loosened to reach the first notch of flaps is exaggerated. I can wear my straps to allow me to reach the flaps, pull the yoke all the way out, and lean forward and my face isn't even close to contacting the yoke or panel.

Stewart,

Most of us aren't built like an orangutan......;-)

Now, you HAD to have seen that one coming....

Manual harnesses CAN work. The problem is that MOST folks aren't disciplined enough to loosen, then tighten, then loosen them for various evolutions, not all of which involve a flap lever. And, fixed harnesses need to be pretty tight to be effective. You may think your shoulder straps are tight enough, but the human body stretches an incredible amount during a very severe deceleration. The human body is really fluid, must more so than most people think.

But, whatever works for you is fine.

I've found that the BAS harness is absolutely the best system for Cessna airplanes, and that's based on a rather severe personal test.

MTV

MTV
 
You beat me to the punch Mike!:p

Long arm folks are less apt to have issues reaching flaps.

I will support the BAS. We have them in our bird, and they work very well for every day flying and lots of legs.

I always start with one notch on the flap handle before I start the run, If I have to reach to zero flaps to pull the handle I lose sight of what is in front of me.
 
I always start with one notch on the flap handle before I start the run, If I have to reach to zero flaps to pull the handle I lose sight of what is in front of me.
I also have the BAS harness in the 185, it is hardly noticeable. That old single strap was too easy to pull out of.

George, I use 20 degrees for take off in the water in a 185 on amphibs. It seems to give a little better overall performance than just 10. 10 degrees on a hard runway works best. Also in high winds I use 30 or more to reduce the waves pounding on the floats. Works great though be careful of blanking the rudder. Get rid of the extra flap once in the air and before climbing.
 
George, I use 20 degrees for take off in the water in a 185 on amphibs. It seems to give a little better overall performance than just 10. 10 degrees on a hard runway works best. Also in high winds I use 30 or more to reduce the waves pounding on the floats. Works great though be careful of blanking the rudder. Get rid of the extra flap once in the air and before climbing.

Close to what we do also, but when working wheels in the brush I would want to pop the flaps on once I am at flying speed. To do this I needed to have 10 degrees set or I could not reach the handle without my head going below the glare shield.

We use 20 on all takeoffs in the ampig, second getting ride of them asap for aileron. Them tip extensions do restrict your roll control
 
I have BAS harnesses in my 180 and I like them better than fixed harnesses, no issue reaching the flap handles and no need to loosen and re-tighten which could easily be forgotten. I also own a 170B with hooker harnesses and an EZ-Flap handle. It works well, for $500 it's cheaper than going to BAS harnesses, there's also other advantages to the EZ-Flap handle. Either way will work it's up to you what you want to do.
 
A pilot friend of mine is 6'5" with a 6'9" "wingspan". He doesn't even have to duck to reach a Cessna 180/182/185 flap handle and can keep his fixed shoulder harnesses snugged up. The average guy like me with a 6'0" armspan needs an inertia reel to be safe :lol:.
 
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