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150 HP Constant Speed conversion

S

sportingrifle

Registered User
Hi all....

I am converting my 0-320 narrow deck/conical mount engine to run a c/s Hartzell propeller. I have the parts manual but there are a bewildering number of part numbers/alternate part numbers, and superceeded part numbers, many of which are not even listed in my parts manual. A couple of questions...

Are all the constant speed adapter housings on the 0-320/0-360 series engines more or less interchangeable? My parts manual lists 75153 which looks the same as the more common 68472.

The governor that I need is the Hartzell HC-V-3-22. They are still made but don't seem to appear on the used market. My govrner parts manual isn't helping with the differences. Are the Hartzell governors for the compact hub propellers all more or less interchangeable or do I have to track down the exact beast.

Thanks so much for any tribal knowledge, I am a long time round engine guy and know all this type of stuff for the P&W but this new sandbox is a little challenging!

Cheers Kevin.
 
dougsappllc said:
I know a guy who has the complete set up, all ready to bolt on. If interested email me dougsappllc@gmail.com
Click to expand...

Doug...if you get the chance I would love to see some photos of the installation along with the part numbers of the prop governor, prop hub and blades, and engine governor adapter. I am building an experimental so I can use whatever I want so long as it all works together.

Thanks Kevin.
kmaher80@hotmail.com
 
Is your experimental a PA-18? If so keep in mind that the governor will need a hole cut in the firewall in order to fit. Make sure that you don't have some fuselage tubing in the way. Also is your accessory case machined for the gov? A friend installed a Hartzell on the front of his -18 and was not impressed with the performance change. It seems that it was too heavy in the nose. This brings us into loaded CG discussions which have been beat to death here.
 
Hartzell props seem to have a lot of AD issues. A friend of mine had Hartzells on his Apache, AD compliance was cost prohibitive so he replaced them with a pair of brand new Hartzells. About a year later, here comes a new expensive AD on the replacement props. Ugh.
McCauley's don't seem to have this problem, at last not as much as Hartzell.
As far as weight, MT's are a lot lighter than Hartzells or Macs. Spendy though.
 
Thanks for the replies. Skywagon....yes the prop is heavier and the firewall will be a pain. I hope I never have to change the governor. I assume that the governor clears the tubing as it is STC'd and you don't have to make any structural modifications for the STC.
Re:performance, every body wants something different and every Cub is a little different but I had a chance to fly one with the STC'd C/S setup and was impressed. It jumped off the ground and climbed really well. Whether or not it performed as well as with a seaplane prop I couldn't say, but it definitely better than with the standard 74" factory prop the airplane used to have. The big 80" diameter blades really pull. But what really impressed me was the cruise speed - 10 mph over the standard prop with the same fuel burn. Now nobody flies a Cub because they are in a hurry, but I fly into some very remote areas and the 10% increase in range could be very helpful. This is probably the biggest draw for me in the project. And i figure that if I really hate it, I can rip it all out and flog it later.

The only AD I am aware of with the HC-2CY series hubs is an eddy current inspection. Being experimental I am not obligated to comply with the AD's. My local NDT outfit does quite a few of them and has never found one cracked. This AD started with aerobatic aircraft and I suspect that on a Cub I will probably end up doing it, just not nearly as frequently as the AD calls for.

Once again, thanks for the info and suggestions. I have a 450 Stearman to finish before I even start this, I am just at the "mind candy" stage but enjoying it.

Cheers Kevin.
 
sportingrifle said:
...... I assume that the governor clears the tubing as it is STC'd and you don't have to make any structural modifications for the STC..
Click to expand...
If the tubing in the first section behind the firewall is exactly as Piper did it, then yes the governor will fit. My Backcountry fuselage had that tubing forming an "X" instead of Piper's "V" which is the reason I mentioned the tubing. I don't know why they did this because it prevented me from using a constant speed prop, which I was planning to do. I considered the Whirlwind C/S but settled on their ground adjustable. I also considered an Aeromatic. That idea is still in the wind. I would be happy with a two position prop, but the prop people don't seem to understand that issue anymore. This would require a simple two way valve instead of a governor with the same prop. Your Ham-Standard 2D30 prop on your Stearman works nicely as a two position. By the way Hartzell has a new carbon fiber blade constant speed prop. They don't answer questions sent through their website though.
 
sportingrifle said:
what really impressed me was the cruise speed - 10 mph over the standard prop with the same fuel burn. Now nobody flies a Cub because they are in a hurry, but I fly into some very remote areas and the 10% increase in range could be very helpful. This is probably the biggest draw for me in the project.

Cheers Kevin.
Click to expand...

Honestly, maybe you should consider a Scout. They fly great, have the speed, and they are not bad in the short strips. Also offer more room.
 
sportingrifle said:
Thanks for the replies. Skywagon....yes the prop is heavier and the firewall will be a pain. I hope I never have to change the governor. I assume that the governor clears the tubing as it is STC'd and you don't have to make any structural modifications for the STC.
Re:performance, every body wants something different and every Cub is a little different but I had a chance to fly one with the STC'd C/S setup and was impressed. It jumped off the ground and climbed really well. Whether or not it performed as well as with a seaplane prop I couldn't say, but it definitely better than with the standard 74" factory prop the airplane used to have. The big 80" diameter blades really pull. But what really impressed me was the cruise speed - 10 mph over the standard prop with the same fuel burn. Now nobody flies a Cub because they are in a hurry, but I fly into some very remote areas and the 10% increase in range could be very helpful. This is probably the biggest draw for me in the project. And i figure that if I really hate it, I can rip it all out and flog it later.

The only AD I am aware of with the HC-2CY series hubs is an eddy current inspection. Being experimental I am not obligated to comply with the AD's. My local NDT outfit does quite a few of them and has never found one cracked. This AD started with aerobatic aircraft and I suspect that on a Cub I will probably end up doing it, just not nearly as frequently as the AD calls for.

Once again, thanks for the info and suggestions. I have a 450 Stearman to finish before I even start this, I am just at the "mind candy" stage but enjoying it.

Cheers Kevin.
Click to expand...

does the STC for the Hartzell require a harmonic damper assembly for the 80 inch blades to be installed? That is a ten pound brick right out front. Thars required on O-360s, maybe not on 320s.

On my Hartzell, subject to that AD, the prop shop did the inspection several times, then said no more.....Hartzell just shoved the liability over to the prop shop. They told me that there were failures to pass and not just in aerobatic machines. I didn't blame them. Also, don't fool yourself that Hartzell won't come out with yet another AD that condemns that hub. If I were going the way you're considering, I'd buy a new hub.....a LITTLE more assurance that you'll dodge their bullets a little longer. Hartzell bit me twice on hubs.....I'll never own a Hartzell prop again.

I thought Experimentals still had to comply with ADs......not true? What does your insurance company think of that?

If you're going to spend that much money, buy an MT prop and at least keep the weight down. Your wallet will get lighter too, but better customer service and product.

MTC
 
mvivion said:
...I thought Experimentals still had to comply with ADs......not true? ...
Click to expand...
Not true Mike, Unless in the case of the prop or engine you wish to maintain it as a certified product. In that case you would require the properly certified person to sign off the logs for all pertinent maintenance. A builders repairman certificate would not be a properly certified person. He could sign for a condition inspection on the airframe but would be limited to preventative maintenance items on the prop & engine.
 
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