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ALPA members look what your union did.

Makes me happy that American Airlines split off from ALPA. I have found that there is a distrust or bias against airline types in this community. This crap doesn't help. I am one retired airline captain who is 100% in favor.

I add the caveat that you owe it to yourself, your family. and the people you might endanger to not fly with serious issues. You should be the best judge of your ability to safely fly. If you abuse it, nothing good will happen. There will be some who will fly with conditions that should disqualify them. I hope these instances will be few and far between. Please don't do it. For yourself and all of us.
 
The letter is pure propaganda. I thought it was a stinking joke at first. Nothing to support it.
 
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Yeah - I too am disappointed by ALPA's stance.

What possible damage could be done to an airliner if a private pilot should croak while on an airway? Does the wreckage strew itself along the airway, fluttering down to the altitudes known to have airliners in them?

It cannot be the ALPA rank and file that decided this - it has to be politics.
 
You would think after all the recent BMI/neck size stuff that that the union would be happy to get one over on FAA aero med. I don't blame the rank and file this is
just one hand washing the other Washington politics.
 
I am extremely disappointed with ALPA over this and have reached out to some friends who may be able to shed some light.

Interestingly, I might point out that there are plenty of ALPA members I have worked with over time who are probably not fit enough to walk around the block at a fast pace, that certify under the present system twice a year. (No offense intended Randy). I also have a hard time believing the letter when it implies they are looking for solutions to the 3rd Class Medical issue. Are we to believe they're paying their lobbyist(s) to help something that doesn't apply to their members?

Exactly where do they think their future members are coming from?
 
I'm not surprised by this. In my short 34 years of airline flying I have learned that about 98% of ALPA pilots could give a sh*t about flying light aircraft in their off hours. I know there are exceptions but most are too busy thinking about golf, boats, stock portfolios and their place at the lake. I didn't learn to fly in a 747 but many ALPA morons have their head up their a** and don't think about this stuff. Pure politics for sure. As mentioned above, there is plenty of walking dead in the airline ranks hence the BMI dilemma.
 
Cub junkie said:
I'm not surprised by this. In my short 34 years of airline flying I have learned that about 98% of ALPA pilots could give a sh*t about flying light aircraft in their off hours. I know there are exceptions but most are too busy thinking about golf, boats, stock portfolios and their place at the lake. I didn't learn to fly in a 747 but many ALPA morons have their head up their a** and don't think about this stuff. Pure politics for sure. As mentioned above, there is plenty of walking dead in the airline ranks hence the BMI dilemma.
Click to expand...

Also unfortunately true. That said I still never saw a significant bias against GA as the two operate in different worlds. You might occasionally call one a "bug smasher" but that is about as far as it goes.
 
This is a most unfortunate situation. I find this to be so offensive, and I hope the membership will come down hard on the leadership. Their letter is akin to the stance taken by the Civil Aviation Medical Association (CAMA), when they chose to overlook the wealth of data which demonstrated that AOPA/EAA petition of two years ago was sound and based upon good information.

The stance taken by ALPA certainly undermines the credibility of their organization.

Randy
 
25 years ago, before I was ever in the industry, I formed an opinion of ALPA. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has occurred to change that opinion in 25 years. But, you know what they say.....

"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

My opinion of ALPA is...............................


Bill
 
Well, ALPA did me no personal favors either - but one of the reasons I became an airline pilot is that it paid better than radar systems engineering. One of the reasons it paid better was ALPA. If you want to be labor, as in being an engineer or pilot, you need an organization with teeth. Doctors have one - the AMA. Engineers have several, but they are so conservative that they will not use them to negotiate salaries or working conditions.

ALPA needs to be called out on this one by its members.
 
Many years ago I was encouraged to honor those who served as mentors to me, to send them a note thanking them for the impact they had on my life, on my career.

The proposal, which ALPA rejects, would likely enable those who taught their members to fly to continue to safely fly in aircraft in which they have thousands of hours flight time. I call major BS on these arrogant leaders who appear to have forgotten that there are those older flight instructors who showed patience as they taught them to fly, and who find themselves stymied by the fact that the FAA subjects them to relatively unreasonable medical standards that keep them out of the air flying those venerable C150's, C152's, C172's, etc, when the data reveals that they are quite safe, quite reliable. I would challenge ALPA's leaders to look their 70 year old flight instructor in the eye and tell them that the this legislation is not only good for them, but that it would keep them doing what they love to do, and to do so safely.

Arrogant as....es!

Randy
 
Sorry, forget politically correct, any ALPA asshat that spews this BS in person to me will get a fist in the face. I'm tired of making nice. I know a lot of ALPA dudes, I may be busy. Not to worry, I have a good lawyer.
 
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ALPA, yep they stabbed the flight attendants union in the back, controllers, other pilot groups. Then they cry foul when people cross their picket line. Management teams might have acted as asshats, but at least some knew they were dealing with a bunch of over priveledged punks (sorry only some are that way, but bad apple and the barrel). If this is a true letter then shame on ALPA.

I remember when I was young and airline pilot was gracious, polite, skilled, and consideriate of the customer. I have jumpseated with some in the last few years that had a free ride and belive they are the privilidged elite. Divided we standed, united with these fools we will fall is the ALPA motto.

Venting, sorry.
 
ALPA was responsible for making the airline industry into a viable productive career, providing a comfortable lifestyle for many. For that I am grateful. Other than that they, as Bill says "--------------------" and "_____________________________________" and "------------------------". Do you see a resemblance between the ALPA leadership and the politicians in DC? "I'm getting mine, s.... you".
Sorry, there seem to be a bunch of us who have been silently voicing the same point of view. Let's go Cub flying to get some relaxation and calm down a bit.
 
I'm an ALPA Retiree. With that said, this position is really stupid, even dumber than what they did with the PATCO strike. If any group is, pilots are natural supporter of ALPA. Goodby support. On my flight home I got in the face of every ALPA member I saw. None of the ones I talked to knew anything about the 3d Class/DL. If you are out their riding on the jet, ASK.

Ask about the "every six months 1st Class" pilots that dies in the cockpit seats. Safety BS.
 
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Does ALPA have a powerful lobby presence in Washington? It doesn't surprise me that some oppose the suspension of the third class medical but I'm not sure they present much of a threat. So for you guys with knowledge of the organization and it's influence, are they a power to reckon with or just a weak organization whose leaders are posturing to look more important than they are?
 
No replies. Hmm. Has ALPA sent out calls to fund their PAC to help defeat medical reform? Has anyone within the ranks tried to assemble a dissent group to counter the public statement? Y'all have contributed to AOPA's PAC, right? You act like the issue is important to you. How important? Is ALPA's PAC more powerful than AOPA's?
 
stewartb said:
No replies. Hmm. Has ALPA sent out calls to fund their PAC to help defeat medical reform? Has anyone within the ranks tried to assemble a dissent group to counter the public statement? Y'all have contributed to AOPA's PAC, right? You act like the issue is important to you. How important? Is ALPA's PAC more powerful than AOPA's?
Click to expand...

ALPA spent nearly 2 million (disclosed) in 2014 on lobbying.. There was no communication to the general populous nor from ALPA PAC prior to the announcement. While there is a lot of noise being made on the Airline Forums, I doubt anything will come of it.
 
It's too late, the damage has been done. Even if ALPA "retracted" their objection it won't matter, the concern has already registered with the Senators. The best thing we can do is hit ALPA in the pocket, stop doing business with companies that employ their members. Here is the list:

Air Transat
Air Transport International
Air Wisconsin
Alaska
Atlantic Southeast
Bearskin
Calm Air
Canadian North
CanJet
CommutAir
Compass
Delta
Endeavor Air
Envoy Air
ExpressJet
FedEx Express
First Air
Hawaiian
Island Air
Jazz
JetBlue
Kelowna Flightcraft
Mesa Air Group
Piedmont
PSA
Spirit
Sun Country
Trans States
United
Wasaya

Fly with a company not on this list. Ship with a company not on this list. And tell every pilot friend you know.
 
Barnstormer said:
It's too late, the damage has been done. Even if ALPA "retracted" their objection it won't matter, the concern has already registered with the Senators. The best thing we can do is hit ALPA in the pocket, stop doing business with companies that employ their members. Here is the list:

Air Transat
Air Transport International
Air Wisconsin
Alaska
Atlantic Southeast
Bearskin
Calm Air
Canadian North
CanJet
CommutAir
Compass
Delta
Endeavor Air
Envoy Air
ExpressJet
FedEx Express
First Air
Hawaiian
Island Air
Jazz
JetBlue
Kelowna Flightcraft
Mesa Air Group
Piedmont
PSA
Spirit
Sun Country
Trans States
United
Wasaya

Fly with a company not on this list. Ship with a company not on this list. And tell every pilot friend you know.
Click to expand...
+1
 
Do the carriers choose their pilot's union? I don't see how avoiding Alaska Airlines will do any good for the issue.

What's the end game for ALPA? They have nothing to gain by keeping the third class medical in place that I can figure. What am I missing?
 
This is from a post on our Facebook/mnpilots page from a member of ALPA...

July 27, 2015
As you may know, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) and the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) filed a petition for exemption with the FAA that would give pilots the option of conducting certain operations without having to hold an FAA medical certificate. The FAA has not yet acted on this request.

Currently, legislation is pending in the U.S. Congress that would implement the request made by AOPA/EAA through legislative mandate. Late last week, there was an attempt to attach this legislation, referred to as the "Pilot's Bill of Rights 2," to the surface transportation reauthorization legislation. Complex aviation safety issues have no place on a highway bill—period.

ALPA's sole responsibility is to advocate for its members in their capacity as professional airline pilots. ALPA's long-standing policy as adopted by its Board of Directors is to maintain the highest level of safety within the national airspace system. As such, ALPA has weighed in on the proposed amendment due to its obligation to the safety of our members in their capacity as airline pilots. The proposed amendment introduces risk that takes a step backwards from maintaining the highest levels of safety. If not for how this legislation impacts the safety of the airspace in which our members fly, ALPA would not weigh in on this matter.

On July 23, ALPA president, Capt. Tim Canoll, sent a letter to members of the U.S. Senate urging them to vote "no" on an amendment by Senator Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) to the highway bill.
In his letter, he outlined ALPA's opposition to this amendment:

This legislation has the potential to allow medically unfit pilots unfettered access to the national airspace at altitudes up to 18,000 feet with aircraft large enough to accommodate 6 occupants, at speeds up to 250 knots, in airspace which includes commercial airline traffic carrying passengers and cargo.

It would eliminate the requirement that these pilots see an aviation medical examiner (AME) at regular intervals for mental and physical evaluation in order to show medical fitness to operate an aircraft.
It may reduce some medical conditions that could disqualify a pilot from receiving a medical certificate and relies on the pilot to self-report when a disqualifying condition is identified. Even if a pilot develops and discloses a serious medical condition that creates risk in the national airspace, the amendment could prevent the FAA from ensuring that the pilot seek treatment.
This has been ALPA's position since 2012 when ALPA submitted comments to the FAA in opposition to the AOPA/EAA petition for exemption (Docket No. FAA-2012-0350) from the third-class medical requirement.

ALPA has engaged with stakeholders to address concerns about medical evaluation processes for pilots who hold a third-class medical certificate and believes that a compromise position can be developed to ensure that added risk to the airspace we operate in is mitigated and the highest levels of safety are maintained. In fact, there are other provisions in the Pilot's Bill of Rights that ALPA supports, and we intend to continue collaboration with our Hill and aviation partners.

Again, ALPA believes that a common-sense solution is within reach, but the amendment as written introduces a level of risk within the national airspace that we cannot support.
If you have any questions, please contact EAS@alpa.org.

I call bullsh*t on this.

Randy
 
I'm a 19-year member of ALPA (not by choice, believe me). I just sent my sternly-worded letter to their leadership, as well as letters of support to EAA, AOPA, and my congress-critters. What a crock of crap.
 
stewartb said:
Do the carriers choose their pilot's union? I don't see how avoiding Alaska Airlines will do any good for the issue.

What's the end game for ALPA? They have nothing to gain by keeping the third class medical in place that I can figure. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
Try to keep us little guys out of THEIR airspace? That's all I can figure - - But of course that has nothing to do with aeromedical fitness, except as an attempt to reduce our numbers. I'm with you, Stewart - it's hard to conjure a legitimate rationale - -
 
Here's a list of senators and congressmen that have co-sponsored medical reform legislation. It will in revealing to see how these senators vote today. I'm as pro-medical reform as anyone, perhaps more than most, but I don't like amendments and earmarks politics. I'm getting wary of the assortment of actions that promote medical reform. I wish our representatives would stop playing manipulative games and just deal with issues at face value. Government is broken. Attaching PBOR2 language to a highway bill is evidence of that. I want it to pass for selfish reasons but I don't like the tactics. It'll be an interesting day.

http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Legislative-Affairs/Pilots-Bill-of-Rights-2
 
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