STOL that can fit in a garage

I realize that this audience is a cub audience, but I know that there is lots of great knowledge.

I have sold my cub (still in pieces), and am staying sane by looking around at what my next bird might be.

SB reminds us often that we must define our mission, then select. In all honesty, my mission has changed in the last five years.

What I will do with/want the plane to do:
1. be able to fly off the strip at the house, year around, (skis required in winter). Soft grass part of the year.
2. be inexpensive to own/fly ($5,000/year insurance and maint. or less; cheap fuel burn)
3. be able to land at the cabin, short gravel bars there
4. be able to push it through my existing garage doors on the shop instead of needing a hanger
5. be able to make my own parts, repairs and modifications
6. be able to fly me, the wife, and at least one dog, (in her lap is ok).
7. purchase of the bird $30,000 or less

My main flying will be to just look around or go to the cabin. The cabin is less than 20 miles away, so most of my flying will be within 30 miles of the house.

I will not be flying commercial, I will not need to fly heavy loads. If I do take it hunting, I can make more trips, and not worry about trying to bring a camp out in one load.

I suspect that non-certified/experimental is the answer. What I have found so far is that Avid, (under the new name), Kitfox and Just (Highlander) all have folding wing, tailwheel birds that seem to perform well, and fold wings back.

Yes, I know that most of these will NOT stand up to the rough strip/heavy loads the cub did. That is ok, every plane has it's compromise.8)

So let me know what you all think, and feel free to offer your real feelings, I have a flack jacket on:lol::lol:

most of all, thank you all for your ideas.

Does what courierguy on here flys have folding wings?

Glenn

And I hope your skin has thickened because Eaton is going to have a field day with this

Glenn

Eaton? What is an Eaton?8)

aktango58 said:

Eaton, What is an Eaton?8)

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Not really sure, but some creatIve minds might jump in and tell us



Glenn

I'm no expert, but my neighbor has an Avid Magnum that he built from a kit. He has a short/rougher grass strip. Wings indeed fold easily and quickly. He kept it in a tube and fabric tent shelter next to his garage for the longest time. He has since taken hangar space at the airport. What I can tell you is this, it is as fast as my tired old 172N and it will get off the ground with two men in it in a surprisingly short distance. He has an 0-320 in it and burns 91 octane. That plane is a hoot to play in.

Jim

Glastar? 30k might be a little short but i have seem them for 40-45k

I've seen Steve Henry fly his Just Highlander and Super STOL airplanes around here, although I haven't flown either model myself. I've flown a Kitfox and an Avid. IMHO, both of the Just models are a step up in durability and short field performance over the Avids and Kitfoxes (although all of them are pretty darn good). If you choose the Highlander, you'll need the extreme gear option and perhaps a few other mods. My impression is that the Highlander is just a little faster than the Super STOL, and would be plenty of performance for my needs.

If you need to fold the wings to fit in the garage you might want to check how easy they fold. Some folding wings are a major pain.

If quick fold wings are a must, ( my S-7 don't) a used Kit fox would be your best bet. Forget the budget and I'd say Highlander. I have 50 k in my 8 year old Rans, to replicate it now probably another 15K. For 30 K, your choice is simple, used Kit fox. None have the low speed capability as the bigger chord wing S-7, or the short landing. Maybe short enough for your needs?

What size wife (and you) and what size dog?

The AvidMagnum gets off short but again due to the folding wing constraints has the same narrow chord, been there done that.

You can get a model 4 Kitfox on 26 inch Airstreaks cruise at a 105mph burn 5 gal an hour of Mogas. You can pick 912 powered one for under 30 grand. I've followed Bill Tracy and Greg S around Ohio with it it's not a supercub but it can hang. It takes me 10 min to fold the wings. A lot of bang for the buck. Flew back from the WAD with a tricked out supercub had to slow up and only burned 3.7 gal for the 4 hr flight.

I built a set of fixed slats on a model 4 kit fox... That airplane could fly slow enough to make Cubs fall out of the air...



The owner folded the wings up every flight and kept it in his garage..

Brian

And a slatted S-7 will fly even slower.....but we are all agreed a used KitFox is a great bang for the 30K buck. Lots and lots of fleet hours on the design also.

George come down and fly our S7S and then go back to 23 mile (pretty close?) and build a hanger you cheapskate. You don't want a kit fox or a just.

$30K ain't gonna do it though.

foxflyer said:

..... It takes me 10 min to fold the wings. .....

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Do you de-fuel before folding the wings? I talked to a KF owner who did that-- it added a little time & hassle to the wing-folding process, but he didn't like the weight of the fuel cantilevered out there when folded.

All of the folders require some awareness of the fuel load in the wing tanks, not so much for weight concerns (unless trailering on a rough road for long distances), but more for keeping it in the tanks rather then the garage floor. Unless, you want to complicate the valving and do things like shut off the vents etc., not a good idea of course as if you forget to open things up bad things will happen. My folder experience (650 hrs in an early Kitfox, 43 hrs in a Avid Magnum) showed the amount of "allowable" fuel in the tanks varied, but if memory serves me right, less then half, or maybe 1/4 capacity? Not a deal breaker in use, just something to keep in mind. My early Kitfox had a fuselage 12 g. tank, and only a small wing tank. It also only weighed 465 lbs, something to keep in mind if you are looking at 7 to 800+ lb later models with the same wing chord. They got lots heavier and the wing stayed pretty much the same, after they increased the span as much as practical. The newer heavier models cruise faster with the added power but they lost the real slow/short performance of the lighter models. A familiar story in aviation circles?!

You could probably build a hangar and buy a tripacer for 30k and then buy an extra bare fuse to morph it into a stol bush pacer over time. Other than the extra cost involved, what's wrong with the super stol? It has a narrow cord wing that actually works like crazy. Seems like you should be able to build one from plans. Man that gear is so cool.

30K folding wing

rsrguy3 said:

You could probably build a hangar and buy a tripacer for 30k and then buy an extra bare fuse to morph it into a stol bush pacer over time. Other than the extra cost involved, what's wrong with the super stol? It has a narrow cord wing that actually works like crazy. Seems like you should be able to build one from plans. Man that gear is so cool.

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Look at the Rans S20. They seem to be working on a folding wing, and it is good quality product. A Pacer is hard to beat for the price. My 51 Pacer 150 with VG's is a blast to fly and gets in and out well. Steve Pierce has a slotted wing on his Tri Pacer and is working on an approval. It is really interesting looking.

Having flown kitfoxes and avids on full lotus skis and wheels. YOU DO NOT have much room for baggage at all. if you just want a super nice really loud chainsaw buzzing bird then a kitfox or avid with 2 stroke is the light weight way to go. Fn can take alot of abuse and great short field performer. I we have flown several thousand hours behind 2 strokes and takem everywhere.
I know of 2 for sale right now in kit form very cheap a model 4 kitfox and a avid amphbian The kitfox can be had for $10000. or so and the avid right around there. These are located in Soldotna AK, PASX. Call me for more info if interested (nine o seven tree 9 four tree 5 seven 9)

gbflyer said:

George come down and fly our S7S and then go back to 23 mile (pretty close?) and build a hanger you cheapskate. You don't want a kit fox or a just.

$30K ain't gonna do it though.

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could'nt agree more. I have a owned an S-7S for 10 years. There are two other aircraft that are similar. A Carbon Cub and Super Legend. However, 30K will barely buy the drive train.