Chuck and Ryan's Carbon Cub Build Blog

ceslaw · Nov 30, 2013

Order Placed

Time for introductions as my son, Ryan, and I embark on a new project. This is my first post, although I have been hanging around the site for a while. After contemplating building an airplane for some time, test flights, and many hours researching and exploring options, we have decided to build a Carbon Cub EX.

During one of my most recent of countless visits to the Carbon Cub website I chanced upon the November 15, 2013 bulletin summarizing the 2014 updates and improvements. Among them was the following:

“CubCrafters has added a new kick-panel at the front of the cabin providing a cup/bottle holder for the pilot.”

This upgrade was the clincher. The next day I called Chris Cater, Great Lakes Cubs, Cadillac MI, and confronted him with a long list of questions, including whether the cup holder was rated for spins and rolls (it’s not). The order was placed the next day.

I look forward to the Cub EX landing in its 18 foot crate at my door step around March 1, 2014.

The next three months: so much to learn, so little time.

sburg58 · Nov 30, 2013

It will land inside an 18 ft crate? Pretty short. ;-) Always have wanted to build one as well, sounds like fun!

ceslaw · Nov 30, 2013

sburg58 said:
It will land inside an 18 ft crate? Pretty short !

Good one! Seriously, if it can take off at Valdez in 19', it ought to be able to land in an 18 foot box at my door step.

fabricfan · Nov 30, 2013

Congrats. Those cup holders will get you every time. :lol:

fancypants · Nov 30, 2013

Welcome! Looking forward to seeing the nitty gritty details of the Carbon Cub build.

CC-340? Do you plan to certify it with 1320 lb. gross? Did you buy all 3 kits at once?

Sorry for all the questions. I might consider building one in a few years.

Lowrider · Nov 30, 2013

Hey Ceslaw...good on ya...we need more high powered LSA's.

evroosevelt · Nov 30, 2013

I am building my third CCub EX if you need info or anything else don't hesitate to call or email 256-310-3806 or evroosevelt@hughes.net.
EV

Bill Rusk · Dec 1, 2013

OUTSTANDING

This could be really cool. Post lots of pictures too please.

Looking forward to seeing how one goes together.

Bill

ceslaw · Dec 1, 2013

fancypants said:
Welcome! Looking forward to seeing the nitty gritty details of the Carbon Cub build.

CC-340? Do you plan to certify it with 1320 lb. gross? Did you buy all 3 kits at once?

Sorry for all the questions. I might consider building one in a few years.

The answers: yes, yes and yes.

All three kit were ordered at one time. That simplifies shipping.

The engine, fire wall forward and prop will be ordered about the time we are ready to cover.

The instrument panel is another issue. We want to defer that decision as long as possible in part due to the rapid changes in technology. But having said that, the new World VFR panel that CC is introducing for 2014 may be our starting point. I am partial to the steam gauges, but chart plotter / attitude indicator is something we want to include. Perhaps a Garmin G3X? We will see.

ceslaw · Dec 1, 2013

evroosevelt said:
I am building my third CCub EX if you need info or anything else don't hesitate to call or email 256-310-3806 or evroosevelt@hughes.net.
EV

Thank you for the offer. I suspect I will be calling.

ceslaw · Dec 1, 2013

Bill Rusk said:
Looking forward to seeing how one goes together.

Bill

So am I.

By the way, your build blog has been a real source of inspiration. Very impressive.

soyAnarchisto · Dec 1, 2013

Dynon skyview looks fantastic to me these days

C130jake · Dec 2, 2013

I'm putting in the G3x in my CCEX. Don't hesitate to call Mitch with questions. He would rather take a call verses selling replacement parts. Ask me how I know.

Jake

wzlyyn · Dec 2, 2013

Welcome Chuck and ryan. Where are you located? I'm building a CCEX in Michigan. Might be able to tell you a few things to help you get started. Also like Jake said "don't hesitate to call Mitch".

Mark

C130jake · Dec 2, 2013

Chuck, not sure if you have been to YAK for a tour of the factory. I highly recommend setting up a time with Mitch for a few days and watch the guys on the production floor. I spent two days watching and asking questions. BIG help. Saved many frustrating hours and calls to Mitch. The folks on the floor were awesome showing me tips and tricks they use in building the CC. It took most of the anxiety out for a first time builder like me. Seeing the build in person makes the build go much faster.

My $0.02

Jake

ceslaw · Dec 8, 2013

Good tip. I plan to visit, although waiting for spring may be prudent.

gmrv4 · Dec 9, 2013

Awesome news!
I am excited for you guys and look forward to following along.

ceslaw · Jan 1, 2014

Homework

Having never built an airplane before our knowledge base is a bit low. Accordingly some homework was in order. So far it has been a three part process.

First, some general research. Although Tony Bingelis’ books have been around for a long time and include lots of information that has no direct relevance to the Carbon Cub, they are an excellent source of general information written in a witty manner. The books we reviewed include: a) The Sportplane Builder; b) Sportplane Construction Techniques; c) Firewall Forward Builder; and d) Tony Bingelis on Engines.Then there are the hard core references, which have just a bit of information pertinent to our upcoming project and lots of theory that will cure insomnia: a) Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics Airframe Handbook, USDOT, FAA; and b) Aviation Maintenance Technician Handbook, USDOT, FAA. These books can be picked up used for not much cost on www.Amazon.com with nary a mark on them. I think I know why.

Second, the video. We ordered the eight DVD series from www.ZackAir.com on a Saturday and it arrived on a Monday. By Thursday all eight had been viewed. These videos really helped put the project in perspective and made the manual easier to understand. Well worth the investment for anyone contemplating a Carbon Cub build. He makes it look so easy.

Third, the Cub Crafter Manuals for (1) the wings; (2) the fuselage (3) the finishing kit and (4) the firewall forward. We gained access to a website and downloaded the manuals after our deposit was sent. My critique of the manuals: The wing manual is a bit boring. All those ribs get rather repetitious. Took four cups of strong coffee to get through it. The fuselage manual had more variety; easier to wrap one’s brain around the process. Only one cup of coffee needed. The finishing manual was more like a Bruce Willis movie: lots of action with cool parts coming together. No coffee needed. The fire wall forward got into the details of installing the engine. The really hot stuff! If it were shown in public theaters it would be rated “R.”

Pictures are attached, except for the Cub Crafter’s manuals. Those manuals are a bit like Obama Care: as Nancy Pilosi pointed out, you won’t know what is in it until it is passed. You won’t know what is in the Cub Crafter’s manuals until you buy a plane. But there is one difference: the Cub Crafter manual is understandable and when fully implemented you have a product that works.

Next on the agenda is transforming the garage into a hanger, re-reading the manual and watching the video a few more times.

ceslaw · Jan 31, 2014

Poly Fiber Seminar

Sunday it was nearly sixty degrees at my home in Southern Illinois but thirteen degrees in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Who in their right mind would go to Oshkosh in late January? But I had a good reason.

Wanting to learn as much as possible before the Cub arrives, the two day EAA seminar on the Poly Fiber system for covering and finishing the plane seemed like a good idea. Jim and Dondi Miller did an excellent job demonstrating the system to 22 students working in the shadow of a B-17 and next to Waco and Swallow biplanes.

I had been leaning to the Stewart System, having taken their course a while back. The water based odor free system has a lot of appeal. The adhesive is forgiving and easy to use. But Cub Crafters recommends the Poly Fiber system and indeed the kit comes with its fabric. The aroma and toxicity of the Poly Fiber system products, which I wanted to see and smell first hand, is definitely a difference, but the use of latex gloves, good ventilation, and a proper mask when needed is really not a problem. Not wanting to start a debate on the pros and cons of different paint systems, here is one other observation from a novice’s perspective. The course instruction for the Stewarts System paint emphasized the critical importance of precise measurement and weight of the paint mixture, filtering of the paint, determining paint viscosity, temperature control, humidity control, sprayer settings, substantial compressor capacity, etc. Any slight variation from the precise instructions can jeopardize the outcome. On the other hand the Poly Fiber Poly Tone paint requires appropriate preparation and care, but the capacity of the compressor need not be as great, thinning is straightforward, one does not have to use a specific air gun, adjustments can be made for humidity and temperature, etc. My impression is that one has a better chance of getting a good result with the later system.

During the seminar three wing sections were covered and stitched, but not painted. At the end of the class a half dozen students stood on the fabric between the ribs of each wing section without a single tear and the sag in the fabric disappeared as soon as the weight was removed. I wonder how many aluminum skinned kits could accomplish the same.

And best of all we got to crawl through the B-17.

fancypants · Jan 31, 2014

The EAA SportAir workshops I've been to have definitely been worth the time and money. I liked the gas welding class so much that I took it twice. Great instructors and good folks all around.

evroosevelt · Jan 31, 2014

On all 3 of the EXs I have built I use Stewarts glue (it is a lot easier to work with) and then use the al the other Poly Fiber stuff from CubCrafters.
EV

SpainCub · Feb 1, 2014

evroosevelt said:
On all 3 of the EXs I have built I use Stewarts glue (it is a lot easier to work with) and then use the al the other Poly Fiber stuff from CubCrafters.
EV

Are you saying you are mixing systems? How does the glue hold up with different filler/paint?

Bearhawk Builder · Feb 1, 2014

It seems that when the substrate is cured other products will adhere just fine. I'm sure they don't recommend it but for experimental builders it may be an option. I would take fabric through ekofill and let cure very well before trying any mineral based paint over it. Waterbourns rely more on mechanical adhesion so a good scuff is important. I'm no expert, just my experience.

gbflyer · Feb 1, 2014

Using Superflite System 7 right now, I understand it is a PPG product. Single stage urethane enamel. The primer and paint are both extremely forgiving to operator issues, temperature and humidity. Support from Randy Long is top-notch. It is catalyzed, so that means nasty isocyanates so you really should have a fresh air breathing system. I am using an Axis Pro Citation turbine system with a full face mask and Apollo spray gun. it works well. It is hard to see out of, I go through a lot of tear-offs on the lens. I cannot bring myself to put as many coats on as are called for in the manual. The amount of material that goes on , both primer and paint, is staggering. I can see why it's considered one of the heavier finishes.

Painting new fabric with this system is a tedious task. Iron edges, clean, prime, sand, prime, sand, paint (color sand and paint again if you want a mirror). There's a fella in Kansas who builds S7's who puts 100 hours in each wing!

I did not cover this project, it came from Rans with Superflite cover on it. I have patched a hole we poked on accident and have added a couple of inspection holes. The green glue is stinky stuff, recommended thinner is acetone or MEK. I like the MEK better myself, but it certainly isn't pleasant to breathe. It works well and is also very forgiving.

I would without hesitation use Oratex if I were doing the covering myself or I would have the kit factory or someone else do it. Not going to have the freshly dipped in wet plastic look, but the time savings and weight savings is very substantial.

Steve Pierce · Feb 1, 2014

gbflyer said:
Using Superflite System 7 right now, I understand it is a PPG product.

Not anymore, they had some chemists engineer coatings that are flexible by design and not flexible with the addition of additives that evaporate out.

mvivion · Feb 1, 2014

For those mixing products from different systems, it is in fact LEGAL to do so on EX, but bear in mind that's what took Steve Wittman's life......and that man knew a few things about fabric. Be careful out there.

MTV (not a fabric expert)

gbflyer · Feb 1, 2014

Steve Pierce said:
Not anymore, they had some chemists engineer coatings that are flexible by design and not flexible with the addition of additives that evaporate out.

I believe that to be true of the primer. I don't think the paint has changed in awhile but I could be wrong. I got some paint from Aero Alaska that is a year old, exact same stuff as the new stock from TX.

It is really good stuff nevertheless.

sophistical · Feb 1, 2014

Ceslaw, I was at the poly fiber class in Oshkosh too. I'm the guy in front in your third picture.

ceslaw · Feb 19, 2014

The Hanger

Moved the GT40 and Mustang out of the garage.

Added a peg board and an additional work bench a month ago.

Built the saw horses a couple of weeks ago.

The Avery Carbon Cub tool kit arrived yesterday.

Sent a big check to Carbon Cub today.

The kit should be in the “hanger” in about two weeks.I am ready.

Before and after pictures:

Olibuilt · Feb 19, 2014

I don't even have a place in my garage to put my Honda Civic.... I would not put a GT40 out for 2 saw horses!

I'm just really jealous... You'll be an happy man when the kit arrives! Keep us inform.

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