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Electronic Ignition possibilities

Ruffair

Ruffair

GONE WEST
Lower Chena
Am having a lycoming IO-360A1B6D being built up. Install in Experimental.

This case has the SINGLE DRIVE dual mag. I want to replace this with electronic ignition.

I had thought there was discussion here about others doing this. I can't find the information.

Any ideas..? thanks

Kem
 
Kem

Electronic is great but I don't know off hand of any that are set up for a dual mag off a single drive. Hmmmmm....interesting.

Best of luck.

Bill
 
DW said:
P-mags and auto plugs
Click to expand...

Great idea, but you would have to do some machine work to get the P-mag adapted to the Single drive type engine. I have looked this possibility over pretty closely on a friend's plane. Having said that, I would likely go that route if it was mine. Adapt a P-mag to the single hole in the back so you have a self powering mag and don't need a redundant battery/electric system, then use a ring gear fired electronic system for the other 4 plugs.

E-mag currently does not have an offering to replace the single mag drive dual units. My buddy has been egging them on for 3 years now with them always telling him it's just a month or so away. That's been their answer for years. I do run dual P-mags on my other plane. Nice set up.

-CubBuilder
 
There is a certified solution. They make an adapter to put a single mag in the hole and use a fly wheel pick-up for the electronic ignition.
 
Couple of you mention a "fly wheel pick-up" for the electric ign. can someone point me in the direction for information on that syst.?

DW, the two Pmags is what I would like, but have only one hole for a mag drive in the back of the case. That's the problem with
the -A1B6D motor. It has a Single drive, Dual mag. Have been told to change that case
to a dual drive would be expensive as gears are +/- $1000 ea.

I will do some searching on the Ring gear/flywheel set up.

thx, Kem
 
Called Light Speed Engineering,
The Mini Sensor Dual system is recommended to replace my old single drive system.
It has the sensor at the flywheel.

thanks all.
 
Yes, Light Speed was the one I was trying to remember. Only problem with them is that you need a redundant electric system and/or a redundant battery. That adds a lot of weight and complexity to a Cub. It's easier if you can have one self powered ignition system, whether it's a magneto or a P-mag.

-CubBuilder
 
Thanks CubBuilder.
Its not going on a cub in this application. Zlin model 326. Sorry to lead u astray.
This will have elect. syst. 24 V. Gear is elect.
Maybe go on a cub at later date.
 
Ruffair, You missed CubBuilder's point. If you have an electrical failure in your Zlin, your engine will quit. You should incorporate an emergency electrical system to power the ignition, just in case. At least enough to get you to an airport for a gear up landing.:sad:
 
skywagon8a said:
Ruffair, You missed CubBuilder's point. If you have an electrical failure in your Zlin, your engine will quit. You should incorporate an emergency electrical system to power the ignition, just in case. At least enough to get you to an airport for a gear up landing.:sad:
Click to expand...

Thanks, you are right I did miss the point.

I'll do some research into what is required.

Kem
 
That is why the certified systems generally keep an actual mag as backup. I know of a RV-7 with dual electronic ignition. The guy has a completely separate battery power source that he charges overnight. It is not tied at all to the planes electrical system or charging system.

Tim
 
On my other plane I run dual Pmags. During my pre-flight mag check, I shut off the power to the P-mags, then run the mag check to ensure that both P-mags are self powering. No need for an extra battery or redundant electrical. Either method is generally accepted in the Experimental circles, although my personal preference is to have my ignition systems self powering or as a minimum, at least one ignition self powered.

As I said before, I was helping a friend with his Lycoming IO-360A1B6D. We took a lot of measurements and tried a number of things in an attempt to either mount a single mag or a P-mag to the single hole, then he was going to use a Light-Speed ignition for the other side. The solution just wasn't there with the parts that are readily available. One would need to have a coupler machined to fit between drive gear and the P-mag to get the depth correct and get it to fit properly. I have heard of others successfully adapting a Slick to the one hole, and using an electronic ignition for the other half, but have no specific knowledge that would be helpful. If one could do that, one could also do the same with a P-mag and a Light Speed for the other half. The cost of a P-mag vs a new Slick has just about become a push. It's mostly a matter of how much work do you want to do, and how important the redundancy of self powered ignition is to you vs carrying redundant battery power for short term power for your ignition.

-CubBuilder
 
My bad..should have read a little closer..sometimes I just see what I want to see.. Apparently I have Selective Hearing as well so I've been told.
 
update

Went with the EFII electronic ignition on the io-0360-a1b6d. will incorporate an emergency electrical system to power the ignition, in case of electric failure.

Will be a while yet before it flys as needing to get mount, cowl, and other things built and mounted. BPA in Tulsa is building up motor.

I'm looking for paid professional help to complete this project, hard to find in Middle of Nowhere, Western Nebraska. I am willing to travel...

Kem
 
Ruffair said:
update

Went with the EFII electronic ignition on the io-0360-a1b6d. will incorporate an emergency electrical system to power the ignition, in case of electric failure.

Will be a while yet before it flys as needing to get mount, cowl, and other things built and mounted. BPA in Tulsa is building up motor.

I'm looking for paid professional help to complete this project, hard to find in Middle of Nowhere, Western Nebraska. I am willing to travel...

Kem
Click to expand...
Kem,

You're going to like working with Barrett (they are pure old school class) the only thing you need to do is come pick the engine up in person...Los Cabos is calling your name!

Kirby
 
Kirby, Thanks. I've enjoyed working with Rhonda and Allen. Good folks.

I will plan some time in Tulsa town when I come get the motor.. Looking forward to seeing you all.!!

Kem
 
Has anyone used the E-Mags? They have a built in alternator. I saw them and OSH and they looked pretty good to me. No need for the second power source. emagair.com
 
You mean P-mags, they are the ones with the alternator. The E-mags require an outside source of power. I have dual P-mags on my Cub with automotive spark plugs. They work perfectly. In fact the engine starts, stops and idles smoother than it would do with magnetos.
 
Ruffair said:
Kirby, Thanks. I've enjoyed working with Rhonda and Allen. Good folks.

I will plan some time in Tulsa town when I come get the motor.. Looking forward to seeing you all.!!

Kem
Click to expand...
I just had Alan work over the new cylinders for the 180 and Rhonda brought 'em to me, we'll get a BIG table at Cabos...
 
I run a pair of P model Emags with NGK auto plugs on my other plane. I've got about 50 hours on them so far and am very happy with them. I included a lot of flight test data and issues I ran into with the Emags on my KR-2S on my web site. <http://jeffsplanes.com/KR/2013_Flight_Testing.html>

While doing research for an article about them, we have found that Emag seems to be having some issues with bearings after a couple of hundred hours. The good news is that they aren't catastrophic failures. The bearings seem to be getting a bit out of spec, then the ignition fails a sanity check on power up. The one I dealt with that had this problem (on a plane that I maintain) would fail to start on the ignition that was out of spec, then as the engine warmed up the ignition would come on line and was good until the next cold start. It was a degrading condition where it took longer to get it to come on line with each cold start. Emag has an $85 flat rate check up on their ignition systems. I recommend sending them in for a checkup every couple of hundred hours.

-Cubbuilder
 
Skywagon just to keep things straight E-mags have a built in alternator, I don't know about p-mags. Cub Builder thank you, I will ask if this is something that has been addressed. The better performance is great but if they are a larger maintenance issue that would factor in.
 
Nope it's the P-Mag with the built in alt. there made by the E-Mag co. I have them on my cub and won't go back to mags.
 
Actually, the E-mag is the company name. They first manufactured an externally powered electronic magneto replacement ignition and called it an E-mag. Then they came up with a version that has a dynamo in it to power the ignition, and called it a "P" model E-mag. Since nearly everyone is buying the "P" model with the dynamo in it, they have either already or shortly will end the manufacture "E" model without the internal dynamo.

Additionally, you are unlikely to see better performance with the E-mag unless you spend all your time at higher altitudes. Just a lower fuel burn when throttled back or at higher altitudes when it starts dialing in some extra spark advance. You are also likely to see higher CHTs and Oil Temps as it dials in spark advance, but lower EGTs. I believe the book says the P models will self power down to 900 rpm. Below that you need external power for the ignition. Mine self power down to 700 rpm.

-CubBuilder
 
Ok We are talking about the same thing. The "P" model series built by E-Mag. Whew. In any event they looked good to me, but hearing about the 200 hour check up isn't comforting. Hopefully something they have fixed.
 
Maccub_Nov16_2013_29.jpg


Maccub_Nov16_2013_28.jpg
 
I run the same engine ,less the 6th order crank.
I use the G3I system and it works.
You get to keep your dual mag for backup and the electronic when you want it.
 
G.C BH said:
I run the same engine ,less the 6th order crank.
I use the G3I system and it works.
You get to keep your dual mag for backup and the electronic when you want it.
Click to expand...
G.C. BH, I had not heard of the G3I before.
I looked it up and it looks pretty darn neat.
Would love to have that Supercharger they offer on something too... Kem
 
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