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My 64 pound wood wing

Marty57

PATRON
Nipomo, Ca
I put my wing on the scales tonight. First, what I have: complete wing all wood including wood leading edges (not installed but on wing for weight) and false spar (installed). I added the ply for the tank bay when I put it on the scales. All steel fittings and hangers are in place. What I don't have in place yet is the fuel tank, the tank cover or plumbing. I also don't have the control cables in place yet but all pulleys are in place. The wing is uncovered. As it sits on the table this way it weights in at 64 lbs. So ........... is that heavy? Sure, there will be some more ply aft of the fuel tank but I stacked 6 sheets of ply (2'X4') on the wing when I put it on the scales so I should be close. So guys how does that compare to other builds? What should an 18 gallon tank and plumbing weigh and about how much more for the tank cover and hardware? I'm real curious how this weight looks.

Marty57

wing with fuse.jpg
 

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Does not look heavy to me! It sure is pretty, a shame to cover all the pretty work. I want to make a desk out of it!
 
Nice Marty, thank you for updating us. I don´t have my main computer running so I can verify, but from memory a built wood spar with metal ribs for a j3 was ~72lbs uncovered.
 
Looks good Marty. I thought I read somewhere that a 13 rib SC wing was 88 pounds minus fuel tank and fuel tank cover.
 
Beautiful. If you don't mind me asking, what's the $$$ count (in materials) you'd estimate?
 
Tim,
My cost for the two wings including the wood flaps and ailerons is about $1500-$2000 give or take. I have made everything from scratch other than the drag wires. I even made my own pulley cages; I'm that cheap.
Marty57
 
Tim,
My cost for the two wings including the wood flaps and ailerons is about $1500-$2000 give or take. I have made everything from scratch other than the drag wires. I even made my own pulley cages; I'm that cheap.
Marty57

Cool! We should clone you! I bet you will hand splice to save the cost of a Nicro sleeve. Definitely a reality check for aviation!
 
Marty, A 13 rib Piper Super Cub wing uncovered and set up for flaps weighs 64 lbs. Sounds like you did well.
 
marty57,

Nice work, looks great. BTW, what is the advantage of the wood wingsover aluminum?


Dan
 
Dan,
The advantage to me is I was able to build all the parts myself for a very low investment. Other than that???? There are a lot of very competitive aerobatic bi-planes being built with wood wings so it must have some advantages. One issue I won't have is dis-similar metals corrosion. All my steel hardware on the wings bolts to wood so no issues there. That, of course, is easy to control with modern epoxy in a metal wing so not really a big deal. For me, I like wood and have been working with it my entire life and am very comfortable with it. I think the weight of my wing will end up less than a current production wing that uses stamped ribs and the same as a stock SC wing so that works also in my favor. My flaps and ailerons cost me about $100 to produce all four, something likely impossible to do in metal. I'm on a budget so the cost factor is a major advantage. Disadvantage is time; lots and lots of time. Not a big deal for me but that would be a deterrent to others. I also managed to find a great source for most of my spar wood from a mill in Washington State, that helped a bunch. I've got some ideas about wood spars that differ from current trends away from their use. Most builders look at the high cost of the spars as a major factor in the decision. I look t the overal cost of the entire build of the wing. With that perspective the spars aren't a big deal. How much are stamped ribs for instance; $40 or so I suspect. Wood ribs can be built up for about $5 per rib showing a big savings. As I said my ailerons and flaps cost me less than $100. If you make your own ribs from metal you can build pretty cheap also but most builders buy a kit and the price jumps a lot. so again, there are lots of "hidden" advantages in a wood wing that have to be considered when making the decision. I have heard pilots say a wood spar J3 takes the bumps in flight better than a metal spar; don't know my self but I can see that as a possibility. I prefer my wood canoe to an aluminum canoe of the same size. I just like the "feel" better in the water. What I would really like to build is a set of wood strip floats some day. Not that would be cool and the wood could be visible when it's finished. There's a Boeing bi-plane in the museum in Seattle with wood strip floats that has got me thinking of a future project.

Marty57
 
Tim,
My cost for the two wings including the wood flaps and ailerons is about $1500-$2000 give or take. I have made everything from scratch other than the drag wires. I even made my own pulley cages; I'm that cheap.
Marty57
Congratulations Marty, you are accomplishing a true home built airplane. It appears that, other than perhaps the engine, your largest expense will be the covering materials.
....there are lots of "hidden" advantages in a wood wing that have to be considered when making the decision. I have heard pilots say a wood spar J3 takes the bumps in flight better than a metal spar; don't know my self but I can see that as a possibility. I prefer my wood canoe to an aluminum canoe of the same size. I just like the "feel" better in the water. What I would really like to build is a set of wood strip floats some day. Not that would be cool and the wood could be visible when it's finished. There's a Boeing bi-plane in the museum in Seattle with wood strip floats that has got me thinking of a future project.

Marty57

I understand and agree that a wood boat just "feels" better. I have a light weight cold molded wood sail boat. The wood is red cedar encapsulated with carbon fiber. Years ago there was a company in Benton Harbor, Michigan by the name of Aircraft Components which sold lots of good surplus airplane "stuff" cheap. One item which they sold was a set of "Wollam" wood floats for Cubs. See item 315 on T.C. #A-691 (Model J3C-65S only). The disadvantage of those floats was that they would absorb water over time, and become heavy. They needed to be stored in a dry environment in order to go on a weight reduction diet. It is likely that a set of "cold molded" floats just might solve the water absorption problem. I have never flown nor seen, other than in pictures, a set of "Wollams" so can not comment on their performance.
 
Some of you guys must have micro chip ride transducers in your a** because I have flown a lot of wood spar and metal spar Cubs and couldn't tell any difference. Hell, even flew one with a metal spar on one side and a wood spar on the other.
 
Some of you guys must have micro chip ride transducers in your a** because I have flown a lot of wood spar and metal spar Cubs and couldn't tell any difference. Hell, even flew one with a metal spar on one side and a wood spar on the other.

Skippy. maybe you have a Laterial Angular Redirection Devise in your ars that is blocking the sensation

Glenn
 
I've never been a Cub with a wood wings. I just liked the feel of the Viking. But it is an entirely different animal.
Tim
 
Nice job Marty!! You have my admiration for sticking to the wood wing build. One of my offspring has thoughts of building a wooden plane and I tell him he can't even finish his vegatables at dinner let along a wooden plane.
 
Looks great. I can't tell the difference flying wood or metal, but sure was fun building the wood wings. Wouldn't mind doing it again.
 
Nice looking wing Marty! I weighed one of mine recently complete with flap/aileron/rigging etc it weighs 87 pounds. It is built out of Wag kits, I got a couple more ribs from Carlson, it is built similar to your 2=2 with 13 ribs and an N-strut. Had fun building the wood flaps/ailerons did them in 6 weeks. My ailerons are also bellcrank operated. .wingtip.JPG
 

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Nice job on the wood ailerons and flaps; they look great. It is very satisfying to build out of what seems like so little material. I gotta get working on mime soon as we finish unpacking all the way.
Marty
 
Right now I'm working on a Skybolt, which has spruce spars, and was chatting with another 'bolt builder who is an airframe structural analyst. He stated that the wooden spars hold up so much better to constant flex and stress than a metal one will. The wood will flex forever without breaking, provided you don't exceed it's load limit and snap it. Metal on the other hand can only bend back and forth so many times. This was a deciding factor in choosing the Wag Aero Sportsman 2 + 2 for my next project.. with a wooden wing. Plus, I think I'd rather spend my time cutting and gluing up ribs, rather than cutting, deburring, forming, using a flycutter for lightening holes, flanging those holes, etc. Oh yeah.. then, thousands of rivets!! And if you ask me, the Bearhawk looks suspiciously similar to a PA-14 or 2+2 ??
 
I guess I should chime in here. I'v just finished recovering my wood 2+2 wings. They were built in the late 80s, I bought the plane with 70 hours on it and have put over 2k hours on it. The wings looked great except for one thing. On the bottom of the ribs there is one place that's 6 3/4 inches between ply gussets, the rest are about 5". On all those 6 3/4" spaces the 1/4 wood was either broken or bent up 1/4 to 1/2 inch almost like they were steamed. Now I fly like a little old lady so I know it wasn't me, and never made a hard landing :lol:. I think it is a bad design, like to far between gussets. I epoxied them back together with a 1/4 X 3/8th stick on top of the original 1/4 X 1/4. Just a heads up, maybe the bottom of the rib should be 1'4 X 3/8ths to begin with.

Tim
 
Did you take any pictures Tim? I got a whole set of those ribs and could add some extra wood if needed, I haven't varnished yet.


I figured it out. Took a rib out and measured.
 
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Guess I should of taken more pictures, got one so you get the idea, I think I got caught up in the task at hand
mmaq88.jpg
 
On the rib past my finger you can see the 1/4 3/8th piece, not glued in yet
 
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