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Dick Williams
04-29-2012, 10:56 AM
For pilots flying into the Idaho Backcountry, please check out the latest newsletter from the IAA on their website. The president has some important comments about flying into the Big Creek 4.

http://idahoaviation.com/

http://idahoaviation.com/images/usercontent/May%202012%20Flyline%20online.pdf

behindpropellers
04-29-2012, 11:27 AM
I thought it was pertinant so it is copied below:



Pogo may have been right back in the ‗60s when he said,‖ We
have met the enemy, and he is
us.‖ The issue, again, is the use
of Vines, Dewey Moore, Simonds
and Mile Hi airstrips, known
collectively as the Big Creek 4.
One can argue that the Big
Creek 4 are just airstrips and
should be as open to use as any
of the other strips that were in existence when the Central
Idaho Wilderness Act was signed in 1980, but the Forest
Service Resource Management Plan skirted the issue in
2003 by declaring them ―for emergency use only‖. The
Idaho Division of Aeronautics and the Idaho Aviation
Association protested that status and a verbal agreement
was made to keep the strips open for ―sporadic‖ use and
minimum maintenance until a new plan or addendum could
be written, processed and approved.
The point is, the Big Creek 4 are not the same as all the
other strips in the backcountry. Recent increased usage,
including by large gatherings, many documented on
YouTube, have highlighted the Big Creek 4 to the Forest
Service and they are concerned that we are not honoring
the agreement. Until there can be a legal challenge to their
status or a new Resource Management Plan can be
written, there are limitations on the use of these strips and
it is our goal, for now, to do what is necessary to maintain
the status allowing sporadic use.
The IAA is not interested in playing the role of policeman
in the backcountry, but we are interested in promoting
safe, ethical, and adventurous flying opportunities. In order
to accomplish those goals in the Big Creek drainage we,
the general aviation public, need to regulate ourselves and
not poke the sleeping dog. We are asking visitors and
locals to be sensitive to the limitations placed on the Big
Creek 4 by limiting operations at those strips to occasional
and necessary use. In particular, please avoid the urge to
have multi-airplane rendezvous at these strips or to have
round robin or multiple landing group activities there. The
allure of challenging our equipment and ourselves is
evident but, as in so many things, moderation is the key.
IAA members, please be the leaders in this effort. Keep
the attraction of the Big Creek 4 available to us all by using
some restraint and complying with the spirit of the verbal
agreement with the Forest Service until a more satisfactory
and lasting solution is reached.
A REMINDER to ALL: Don‘t forget the General
Membership Meeting in Idaho Falls during the Aviation
Trade Show on May 19
th
.
See you there
Jim

8GCBC
04-29-2012, 11:45 AM
The reason I fly in Idaho backcountry is to get away from people. Not meet them there. $0.02.

My private Idaho is getting smaller.

courierguy
04-29-2012, 01:09 PM
I DON"T fly the Idaho wildnerness, except for a couple of times a year. Too many people, I got other secret spots..... out of the official wildnerness area thank god, when I want to get away from it all. Thank you multiple use BLM land! I'm always kinda amused that the biggest mob of people I am around all year is at Johnson Creek, where everyone is thinking they are in or near the wildnerness, while waiting in line to use the restroom or whatever. The erosion problem solution to the heavily used strips is painfully obvious: use them less. Short of some high tech landscaping using geo cloth and some kind of compacted gravel or something the strips are going to get hammered. Too bad but probably not the end of the world ecologically speaking, annoying the Forest Service and the tree huggers is another story. Telling someone from out of state that they shouldn't land at the strips they came specifically to land at is a pretty hard sell. Maybe the high gas prices will solve the problem!

aviationinfo
04-29-2012, 01:20 PM
The LAST thing the BC4 needs are mega-gatherings of folks practicing landings, especially at Mile Hi. I have seen vids of 11 planes parked around there. Please just show up, enjoy the place, and leave without multiple approaches. This issue seems to come up around Johnson Creek time every year doesn't it?

180Marty
04-29-2012, 01:56 PM
The erosion problem solution to the heavily used strips
I'll never forget landing at Cabin Creek and seeing the rubber belts across the runway for diverting the water. Nobody told me about them and I didn't know they were rubber but knew I was committed to landing.

aktango58
04-29-2012, 04:15 PM
I bet is ok for the USFS to make multiple approaches...

The park service flies helicopters in wilderness areas...

Got to love it, large gatherings... 11 planes???? humpf.

8GCBC
04-29-2012, 05:04 PM
Where I fly, 11 airplanes scare me off.... Too many people. But, then again I am retired or also know as in-between jobs.

85Mike
04-29-2012, 08:24 PM
My first trip to the ID backcountry in the 185 was great. (22yrs. ago). I stopped in McCall and ran into Lynn Clark who freely volunteered verbal instruction to many strips including Cabin Creek. On approach to Cabin Creek you are going to land when still quite a ways out from the strip. Not much option for a go around.

My favorite for solitude is Shearer where I've never shared it with another plane. A forest service packer was in there one night and we had a great visit while he shod two of his mules. The wife and I did get surprised by rafters on the river while taking a bath though!

Great places to fly and camp.

Mike

8GCBC
04-29-2012, 08:35 PM
My feeling is Vegas, Laughlin, Reno is better if you like to party. I know a "party animal" that bent his aircraft in Idaho in the hills really bad (200 hrs after a Pponk). He was a beer drinker, I think.

aviationinfo
04-29-2012, 09:50 PM
aktango, no offense intended. 11 planes at Mile Hi is definitely a large gathering due to lack of parking. Makes it look jam-packed, exactly the kind of scene the USFS ranger would cringe at. And even then it wouldn't be a problem if folks simply flew in and hiked around / camped. I think the reason it causes a stir is that during Johnson Creek Week (or the few days anyway) there seems to be as much use as the entire remainder of the season combined.

aktango58
04-29-2012, 09:56 PM
Av,

None taken. It just seems that the wonderful fs always decides there are problems because of one week out of the year...

Let us pretend that the rest of the year there is two aircraft a week at mile hi... but in the winter none???

so it equals out that the use is less than infrequent and not a problem. But one person was probably somewhere the one day the JC folks flew into it and sniveled... so for ONE person, the rest of us need to go away.

This seems to be the way our country is going and it irritates me.

aviationinfo
04-29-2012, 10:09 PM
Understood. You'd think they could just understand that the most frequent use is during that same time period every year and the rest of the time it remains visited most often by the horses and elk that graze there. And frankly the legislation that set up the wilderness specifically states the strips will remain available. Unfortunately the USFS gets to manage them and decide how much use is too much.

aktango58
04-29-2012, 10:23 PM
I do applaude the IAA for working to keep these places open. We should all support them doing this.

I wonder if what we should be doing is get copies of the paperwork showing the promise to keep these strips open and getting our senators to tell the FS to back off. Sometimes they need reminded that pilots are citizens also.

Imagine if 70 senators all called the Department of the Interior as told them to leave these strips open for aircraft!

Ursa Major
04-29-2012, 11:01 PM
I do applaude the IAA for working to keep these places open. We should all support them doing this.

I wonder if what we should be doing is get copies of the paperwork showing the promise to keep these strips open and getting our senators to tell the FS to back off. Sometimes they need reminded that pilots are citizens also.

Imagine if 70 senators all called the Department of the Interior as told them to leave these strips open for aircraft!

Calling the Dept. of Interior wouldn't do much good since the Forest Service is under the Dept. of Agriculture.

aktango58
04-29-2012, 11:11 PM
Calling the Dept. of Interior wouldn't do much good since the Forest Service is under the Dept. of Agriculture.


Duh...

I think I need sleep. Thank you Ursa for the correction!

Bugs66
04-30-2012, 02:01 AM
Dang, that kinda puts a damper on the fun we have at JC. Really its only two or three days of active use. I think it is fun to have fly outs and form up with fellow Cub pilots. I don't get why some people get their panties in a wad when there are group fly outs.

skywagon8a
04-30-2012, 05:31 AM
Calling the Dept. of Interior wouldn't do much good since the Forest Service is under the Dept. of Agriculture.
Just perhaps this is part of the problem? TOO many departments. If we were able to eliminate a few then the only folks who would notice are those who were employed by that eliminated department.

Sorry for the small thread drift.