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Willoow Lake Closure

cubdriver55

Registered User
Alaska
[h=2]Willow Lake Closure[/h]
Willow Lake in Willow Alaska was closed today for the winter months. DOT ownes the lake and decided to close it to ski operations for the first time in its history. This is a sad day for Alaska. I fear this is just the begining. If a lake that is owned and operted as an airport by DOT can be closed any lake can be closed. I am afraid Alaska is going the way of the lower 48.​
 
marc.luiken@alaska.gov

steve.hatter@alaska.gov

That is the email for the DOT commissioner and Dep. Commissioner statewide airports.

Everyone, my guess is that this is a neighborhood bitch session with many sled users and new housing not wanting airplane noise. Send emails, many, often and well articulated to the above email addresses.

Some things to include: The FAA will always say don't, the safest airport/aircraft are ones not flying or moving. The lake already has a waterway listed for float planes, so all info for ski strip should/could be the same. The guy that wrote the letter is brand new, Anna Walker retired this last spring, and this guy is still learning...

Everyone can help with this. The folks making the most noise will win this battle, and it has been a battle with the neighborhood I bet for years as new people build lake homes and want their grand children to play without the noise...

The should have chosen a diffrent lake.

lets get writting!
 
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[h=2]Willow Lake Closure[/h]
Willow Lake in Willow Alaska was closed today for the winter months. DOT ownes the lake and decided to close it to ski operations for the first time in its history. This is a sad day for Alaska. I fear this is just the begining. If a lake that is owned and operted as an airport by DOT can be closed any lake can be closed. I am afraid Alaska is going the way of the lower 48.​

Please post the letter you got from the state on this site also!

My Letter:

Mr. Hatter,


It has come to my attention that Willow Lake has been closed for ski plane operations.


This concerns me greatly because this is an aircraft designated lake, with actual water lanes, State owned land leased for hangers and facilities, designed and managed for aviation.


in a letter from Josh Briggs, Central Region Safety and Security officer he cites an FAA response to a question from Mr. Briggs: "Their primary concern is that a ski strip erected on the lake would fall under FAA-regulated Part 77 airspace rules, and airport compliance would take some time to establish. This would include a survey of threshold ends, elevations and coordinates. DOT&PF is not prepared to establish such compliance at this time." The FAA would like to see most Alaska airstrips and landing fields go away. Willow Lake actually has all of the documented threshold ends, elevations and coordinates to be a seaplane base, and should be used for the ski plane operations; ice is another form of water.


The letter further states reasons for the closure: "when access across the ice is easiest for the public, will help ensure conflicts are minimized and promote a safer environment." This statements infers that pilots are not public; as this lake is a designated aviation lake, I ask: safer environment for whom? It will not make it a safer environment for aircraft. In fact, this restriction will certainly lead to requests for summer aircraft restrictions until no aircraft are allowed on the lake. The State of Alaska gets revenue from lease holders operating a business, an aviation business, on that lake. Will the next step be to close Lake Hood to make it a safer, more quiet environment at the Dot offices? You can see and understand my concern as a pilot.


Mr. Briggs statement: "The Willow Airport is maintained to accommodate ski operations during the winter; therefore the land based airport provides a location for your business to operate in winter months." is misleading. The Willow runway may be maintained, however, for aircraft parked, or parking on the lake, paying lease money to the state, the access is across a paved road that is often bare pavement or has sand on it. Also, many pilots will tell you that often times in the spring, the lake can be ski friendly after the strip has melted and become unusable for skis. Mr. Briggs appears to be unfamiliar with the many influences when operating on skis, and the many variables that require pilots to be creative, and requires all options be open to them. This decision will not make ski operations safer.


It would seem that the job of Statewide Aviation is to promote aircraft use, not deter it. This closure is an additional deterrent for aviation in private and commercial arenas. Please refer back to the purpose for leasing aircraft use land on the Willow Lake shoreline and rescind this closure today.




Sincerely,




George Campbell
Pilot

I also CC'd Troy Larue: troy.larue@alaska.gov, Central Region something and aviation friendly...
 
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Got more word...

my understanding is that the DOT guys really are working on this as a priority.

There have been lots of requests for information about this, and they are intending to state an official position and process to resolve this issue soon.

Presently there is a NOTAM out "land at your own risk" because it is a seaplane base, same notam as in place at Lake Hood, and frozen, like Lake Hood.

It is presently under the same status as Lake Hood, land at your own risk.... like we do all the time.
 
Here is the letter we got from the FAA in respose to our inquiry.

We must clarify that the property owner (DOT&PF) has informed FAA that the Willow Lake Seaplane is closed during winter months.
In addition, we have not found any commitments from DOT&PF to maintain an ice runway and FAA does not have the statutory authority to establish such ice runway on Willow Lake.
Consistent with the above, the airport owner is informing the public through a NOTAM that this landing area is currently closed.
Please coordinate with the airport owner the possibility of establishing an ice runway.
Thank you, Gabriel.
________________
Gabriel Mahns, AAL-615
FAA Airports Division, Alaska Region
907-271-3665, Fax 907-271-2851
 
Email from Dep. Comis Hatter this afternoon:

George,


The State has very significant resource allocation, safety, and liability concerns related to State sanctioned and facilitated winter operations on Willow Lake proper. We are researching our options and the associated liabilities related to these options. We prefer to allow "operate at your own risk" activity day to day but may be compelled to be more restrictive.


We hope to get our final position fully clarified and communicated this week.


Rest assured, we're diligently pursuing an optimum outcome that best serves Alaskans.


Steve


Sent from my iPad
 
Below is the response I got:

Mr G,

We're not interested in precedent setting or overly restricting use of Willow Lake. We have been asked to indorse and support a multi- plane fly-in to the lake during the upcoming Winter Carnival which we are unable to support for resource allocation, safety, and liability reasons. We are working with FAA to ensure we can do exactly as you suggest.....to continue allowing landings "at your own risk" during day to day activity, knowing we do not build, operate, or maintain a State sanctioned ski strip. We're also looking for the best mechanism to clearly communicate the correct status of the lake when the surface is frozen.

Our staff is working to get this issue fully resolved this week.

Thanks for for concern and input.

Warm regards,

Steve
 
One year, the State decided to close the float pond at Fairbanks International to ski operations. Their logic was that FAI has a groomed ski strip which serves as a gravel runway for big tires in summer, so there was no need to use the float pond as a ski strip as well.

The question was asked: Why? The response was that it costs money to put out cones to demarcate the ski strip on the float pond, and groom it.

Our response was that we'll do this as a volunteer effort....just tell us where you want the cones, and we'll place them and get out there with snowmachines and groom the strip as well.

The airport manager decided that wasn't a great idea, but it took the wind out of the "saving money" argument.

Unfortunately, agencies HAVE to consider their liabilities. If they call this a landing surface, and someone gets hurt out there, the state may (will) get sued for negligence in that they didn't maintain the "airport".

I would NOT start at the top, as George suggested. I'd start with whoever has primary first level responsibility for that landing surface. Going right to the top instantly puts everyone down the ladder in a bad light, and on the defensive. That's actually a great way to get someone to say NO.

Find out who the key person is, and talk to them. Ask them to attend a community meeting to discuss the subject, where they can explain their reasoning and hear input from the flying public.

Eventually, if none of that works, and you need to go up the chain, by all means do so, but I sure wouldn't start there.

MTV
 
I have to admit that I know nothing about how the State of AK treats frozen lakes, but I did inquire, a year or two ago, to Paul Wolfe, State of Washington Aeronautics about the status and the reasoning behind closing the strips under the State's responsibility in the winter. The bulk of the strips in Idaho under the State or Forest Service are just noted in the AF/D: "No Winter Maintenance" which leaves them open for ski-equipped airplanes. The ones in Washington are simply noted "Closed" with specific dates. Asking Paul, why they couldn't be noted the same as Idaho, he said that they have some specific agreements with organizations, such as snowmobile clubs to open them to organizations and they, in turn, agree to certain maintenance responsibilities. A number of these are closed from Oct to June, which seemed long, and into the flying season, so I asked why they aren't simply notam'd. He said that the Notam system does not allow for long term, seasonal notams, and therefore are closed via a note in the 5010 Data (AF/D). The State does not have the resources to assure that an "X" is visible from day to day all winter long, so therefore its easiest to simply close them.

This didn't come about as something I turned up, just looking around, looking for fault, it was because of Rogersburg. I knew that in the agreement to keep it open, it was agreed that it be closed in the winter for eagle nesting, and I happened to notice one winter day, that there was no Notam to that effect. A call to Washington Aeronautics put me in my place and that led me to the winter operations at other strips in Washington. He was unsympathetic when I said that I didn't normally look at the AF/D - something to the effect "Its your responsibility according to the FARs"......

Rather eye-opening to me. Like I say, not really related to the Willow Lake situation, but similar.
 
Send in Aopa and Eaa. That's what we pay those organizations membership. They take on the political battles. Hopefully, the state will back down or find an equitable solution....like opening and notam-ing

I hope you win.
 
While I will not disagree with MTV in principal, in this instance, Marc and Steve are both aviators... and the guy that wrote the letter that got this started is new, and did not sound like an aviator... Hence my decision to Put their names up. Troy, after some digging, is the guy dealing with this it sounds like, so his name on the email worked just fine...

If you do a search on the web, there is a discussion on backcountry. org or some site also, and there is some comments from a sled trail groomer that say: planes go away...

The issue seems a little bit liability, but a bigger issue I think is that this lake is managed by the state for aviation use, but the surrounding land has been taken over by CAVE (citizens agains virtually everything) folks, and they want the lake so little johnny and sammy can water ski, jet boat and sled, and the awful planes make so much noise.

There is a big public outcry, or should I say well organized, to get planes off the lake. Yup, just like down south. Of course the State has to do the legal mumbo jumbo to determine anything, and of course the Attorney General's staff trained with the FAA staff- safe plane is a parked plane.

It is baffling how the lake can be ok to fly floats, (no water lane set up, nobody checking for safety) for months, but it is not ok to fly skis. If the state does not patrol and mark a float lane, why is it different for skis?

I have been told that this is a big issue, and the winter carnival brought it to lite, so now the state had decided to put it to rest. As the letter above says, they hope to have a formal position within the next week.

On a side note, there is an organization called 'Friends of Willow Lake', or FOWL

You can not make this stuff up... it is FOWL that wants planes off the lake.
 
While I will not disagree with MTV in principal, in this instance, Marc and Steve are both aviators... and the guy that wrote the letter that got this started is new, and did not sound like an aviator... Hence my decision to Put their names up. Troy, after some digging, is the guy dealing with this it sounds like, so his name on the email worked just fine...

If you do a search on the web, there is a discussion on backcountry. org or some site also, and there is some comments from a sled trail groomer that say: planes go away...

The issue seems a little bit liability, but a bigger issue I think is that this lake is managed by the state for aviation use, but the surrounding land has been taken over by CAVE (citizens agains virtually everything) folks, and they want the lake so little johnny and sammy can water ski, jet boat and sled, and the awful planes make so much noise.

There is a big public outcry, or should I say well organized, to get planes off the lake. Yup, just like down south. Of course the State has to do the legal mumbo jumbo to determine anything, and of course the Attorney General's staff trained with the FAA staff- safe plane is a parked plane.

It is baffling how the lake can be ok to fly floats, (no water lane set up, nobody checking for safety) for months, but it is not ok to fly skis. If the state does not patrol and mark a float lane, why is it different for skis?

I have been told that this is a big issue, and the winter carnival brought it to lite, so now the state had decided to put it to rest. As the letter above says, they hope to have a formal position within the next week.

On a side note, there is an organization called 'Friends of Willow Lake', or FOWL

You can not make this stuff up... it is FOWL that wants planes off the lake.

This is true FOWL was formed as a non prophit organization to close Willow Lake to all or at least commercial aircraft use. Fowl sued the state for making Willow Lake a float plane lake back in 1962. They also sued Willow Air for putting a "high performance" prop on its Beaver. By sueing as a non prophit organization they can not be held responsible to pay legal fees to the State or Willow Air if they lose. By the way the "high performance" prop on Willow Air's Beaver is a Hamilton Standard which is what the Beaver was built with in 1947, the other prop on a Beaver is the Hartsel 3 blade which is put on with an STC. The judge ruled that FOWL had no true interest in Willoow Lake and if they wanted to sue they would have to do it personally. They decided not to sue personally because they could be held financially resposible so the case was over. Then FOWL appealed the decision and it is being heard before the Alaska Supreme court on 1/11/12. All these people moved on this lake after it was made a float plane lake and after Willow Air was allready there. The sad thing is that Willow Lake could be used by everyone but these people are forcing DOT to make a decision to close the lake to Aircraft or to boats because they will not leave things alone. Then in the community they make Willow Air the bad guy because they might lose their right to use the lake. If DOT decides to buy out the lease lots and close the lake to aircraft it will set a president that could lead to other lakes being closed. Your support is appreciated.
 
You can probably land and takeoff all you want on Willow Lake. By closing it the state/airport authority is relieved of any liability. They close the float pond every winter in Fairbanks but you can land and takeoff all you want with the controller statement, "At your own risk.".
 
You can probably land and takeoff all you want on Willow Lake. By closing it the state/airport authority is relieved of any liability. They close the float pond every winter in Fairbanks but you can land and takeoff all you want with the controller statement, "At your own risk.".

The original NOTAM was closed to winter operations but everyone has been calling and writing and DOT is backing off they are having a meeting this week to decide what to do but I think it will be open now to land at your own risk which is how it has allways been. I thank everyone for calling and writing, I think that is why DOT is backing off.
 
Not such good news

Current status (just called): Willow seaplane base, not maintained, land at your own risk.

This is not as good as it sounds. DOT has sent us a letter stating Willow Lake will be closed for Willow Winter Carnival and Iditarod but open to land at your own risk the rest of the winter but for occasional use only and no one can construct or maintain an ice strip. You can land but you can not mark thr strip with brush or even groom the surface. The carnival and Iditarod both plow a large portion of the lake and make snow burms but we can not even groom the surface smooth after all the snow machine traffic so we do not break a landing gear. DOT needs to just buy out the lease lots and close the lake since they do not support aviation at all.
 
Sounds like the state is allowing and promoting people to interfere with an approved base of operations by creating a hazard not happening in the course of natural events and therefore is creating liability. In addition they are preventing people from removing or eliminating hazards on an approved base of operations creating even greater liability. (not offering legal advice, just thought)

Is this DOT airport property being properly managed by their own rules given these facts?

In my email to the state I also suggested they sell the lake and shore line.
 
Don't groom a ski strip, groom a snowmobile race track... drag tracks are 660' plus run out

Did I say that out loud?
 
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