PDA

View Full Version : Data plate on older J3



Grant
12-18-2011, 05:19 PM
I was told today that older J3s did not have data plates. It has the stamped tag in the fuselage and it matches the logs but was just wondering if the statement regarding data plates was accurate.

irishfield
12-18-2011, 05:34 PM
My 1946 J3C65's data plate is simply screwed to the baggage area cover behind the rear seat pilots head

Richgj3
12-18-2011, 06:14 PM
The frame serial number, which is not the airplane serial number is on a tag spot welded on the tube over the pilots head, right side on later airplanes. On earlier ones the tag is on the top of the cabane struts. As far as I know, all had data plates. I defer to Longwinglover on this, however. Clyde Smith has a cross reference of frame numbers to aircraft serial numbers.

How old is this one?

Rich

Grant
12-18-2011, 06:39 PM
I'm trying to find that out now. According to your description, this would be a later model, not an earlier one. So assuming that I have the original logs and they match Clydes data based on the frame number, can I get a new data plate from piper?

Richgj3
12-18-2011, 06:52 PM
I think John Scott ( Longwinglover) can answer better than I, or just go right to Clyde at cub doctor.com. I think, I repeat, I think you should have no problem recreating a data plate assuming all the other documentation is in order.

Rich

Grant
12-18-2011, 07:03 PM
Re-reading some older threads regarding the same subject. It seems like one will have to send some $$ to Piper after the FAA blesses the pile of parts.

fly_cubs
12-18-2011, 08:38 PM
Mine is a June 1940 model, and it has the same plate that was on it when it rolled off the line. Through the years the shape and location of the data plate changed, as did the tag on the frames. There was an article in Cub Clues a while back about the tags for the frames. I'll grab it next time I go to the hangar. Here is the data plate on mine (located on the panel):

4654

T.J.
12-18-2011, 09:15 PM
Grant:
The last time I tried to get a Data plate from Piper....
They required the faa to personally inspect and record the fuselage number. That number, the "N" number and aircraft serial number must match the records Piper has or you will not get a new Data Plate. They will not issue a new Data Plate for a fuselage built by another company.
My advise for what it's worth, send the three numbers mentioned above to Clyde. If his records match them, your good to contact Piper. If not, you've got a major problem.
Good Luck.

evroosevelt
12-18-2011, 09:51 PM
Call Clyde Smith and give him the info

Longwinglover
12-18-2011, 10:19 PM
Grant,

Most of the information you have been given is correct. Gather all the information from your logs and frame. Get the build report for your Cub from Clyde Smith then get your local FAA involved. New data plates can only come from the manufacturer. Attached is a copy of the SB from Piper covering this. I believe the price has risen since this version was printed.

I'd clarify that Clyde Smith may, for friends, stamp information on a replica data plate for decorative use only. Any other use of the decorative item would be strongly frowned upon by the FAA.

John Scott

evroosevelt
12-18-2011, 10:49 PM
Wag-Aero sells data plates

Longwinglover
12-19-2011, 05:11 AM
Wag-Aero sells data plates

NO! They sell REPLICA Data PLACARDS. They do not sell Data Plates. I can see where people get confused.

http://store.wagaero.com/advanced_search_result.php?sessId=7533B4562203AFEB 52B136DC345DEFFC&keywords=h-812-200&search_in_description=1

John Scott

Steve Pierce
12-19-2011, 07:05 AM
The Wag Aero data tag is not correct. Never seen a Piper data tag with engine model number. $400 and FAA involvement as TJ stated last I checked with Piper.

Richgj3
12-19-2011, 07:15 AM
Grant

While we are on the topic of making the Feds happy, be sure you have a clear ownership trail for the airplane. My friend has a project that has not been registered since 1974, when it was deregistered by the flight school that went belly up. Project with logs and data plate sold at auction. Several owners later, none of whom bothered to re register it. Now FAA wants a statement from the defunct flight school. After many months, it looks like things are finally clearing up, but it has been a PIA.

Rich

cubunltd
12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
J3 data tags are not that hard to get from Piper. I've done it several times. it does cost a bit. Last time i did was about $200. longwing lover is correct in his statements. you'd be suprised at the number of J3's out there with illegal "Wag-Aero" tags.

john

Steve Pierce
12-19-2011, 10:10 AM
Last data I have.
4669

Dan Gervae
03-14-2012, 09:56 PM
I have a Major Repair And Alteration Form (Airframe, Powerplant, Propeler Or Appliance) Form (now refered to as 337) dated Jan 26th 1954 for my J3 stating
"Removed Lycoming Engine Mod. 0-145-B2, TC 210, Lycoming engine mount, and propeller: Sensenich Mod. 70LY34, ser. 86264

Installed Continental Engine and Mount. Engine Mod. A-65-8, and Lewis Propeller Mod. L11R-42, ser. 9481.

Weight change negligable.

Aircraft Data Plate Replaced to show model change."

To me this made it legal....they removed the J3L-65 Data plate and installed a J3C-65 Data plate....airwothiness, logs, everything approved in 1954.

cubunltd
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
That is actually not legal. When you convert ot a different model(J3L to a J3C you keep the original data tag. It is still a J3L. however you have to install a tag below the original that says this aircraft has been modified to a J3C.
Where did the J3C data tag come from? Piper or replica. If it's a replica, get rid of it. If you still have the original tag, reinstall it with the tag i mentioned above.
What about the airworthiness cert. Was it changed to J3C. It should not have been. If it was changed back in 1954 then I would probably not worry about it. Problem is log books probably still show it as a J3L.
John

cubdriver2
03-15-2012, 09:32 AM
Who's going to know, mount it on the front bumper of your car for a few weeks. " It came with the project "

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Piper-Cub-Data-Plate-J-3-Series-PA-18-Super-Cub-Good-Blank-Stainless-NICE-ONE-/251013482969?hash=item3a7191c9d9&item=251013482969&pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&vxp=mtr


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Piper-DEA-Required-Airframe-Data-Plate-Stainless-Acid-Etched-/400255547802?hash=item5d3116f99a&item=400255547802&pt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&vxp=mtr

Glenn

Dan Gervae
03-15-2012, 01:24 PM
The airworthiness cert was also changed at the same time. and the original tag is not there anymore. The logs list it as J3C-65 with conversion and details similarly noted same date as 337 was filled out in 54'. Every 337 and airwothiness after that date show as Model J3C-65. I guess I got lucky.

cubunltd
03-15-2012, 06:29 PM
In that case i wouldn't worry about. Things were done a little different before 1955. I'd say you were good to go.
John

DesperadoPilot
03-16-2012, 10:02 PM
Does anybody have a photo of an actual data tag issued by Piper for a 1946 J3C-65 and also a picture of one of the replica's for the same? I would like to know how to tell the difference between the two.

And also, does anybody have a picture of what the fuselage frame serial number stamped on a 1946 J3C-65 is supposed to look like? Is it on a tag spot welded to the frame above the pilots head, or is it actually stamped in to the tubing? I have heard both.

irishfield
03-16-2012, 10:21 PM
I'll try to remember to take a picture of mine ('46) tomorrow.. have stuff to do in early am to pm but will write myself a note to take a picture!

cubunltd
03-17-2012, 07:14 AM
The fuselage frame number is located on the right diagonal above the pilots head. it is stamped on a tag welded to the tube, not stamped into the tube itself. the original Piper data tags for earlier J3's was oval shaped like pictured in a post from fly-cubs. They were located on the instrument panel. The later ones were rectangular in shape and located on the baggage compartment door. If you get a new tag from piper it will be a larger tag just like the PA18.
The replica tag from Wag-Aero looks like the rectangular one. If the tag looks new then it probably a replica.

John

irishfield
03-17-2012, 05:34 PM
Sorry.. got a little busy! Have never needed to get my runway rolled in March.. let alone on St. Patty's Day, before it was too dry to do any good!

1946 data plate (inside luggage door) and fus tag above the pilots head.. right side... and the serial number and fus number do not match!

Note.. my tag looks new... it is NOT a replica!

DesperadoPilot
03-17-2012, 08:39 PM
Thanks Irishfield, Just what I needed to see.

DesperadoPilot
03-18-2012, 10:11 AM
One more question. The Aircraft Serial Number, not the same as the fuselage number....where would the Aircraft Serial Number be located? Is it actually stamped on the airplane or on a tag somewhere, or is it just stamped on the data plate only?

cubunltd
03-18-2012, 11:17 AM
There is no fuselage s/n number other than the fuselage number .

DesperadoPilot
03-18-2012, 11:11 PM
Cubuntld, my last question was about the AIRCRAFT serial number, (the Aircraft Serial No. on my registration document), not the fuselage number.

cubunltd
03-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Sorry, i misread your question. The aircraft s/n is only on the data tag. It is not attached or punched anywhere on the fuselage.

DesperadoPilot
03-19-2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought. I couldn't find the Aircraft Serial Number anywhere on the airplane other than on the data plate, and I looked high and low. Thanks for the good info.