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J5 PA12 PA14 struts: are they the same?

Marty57

Marty57

PATRON
Nipomo, Ca
This question is for those of you who really know your Cubs. I need to hang the wings on my 2+2 so I can try and figure out the pulleys and cables for the ailerons and flaps; the plans are poor at best. I don't have struts yet but I do have an old set of J5 struts in pretty good shape that I could use to hang and fit my wings to run cables. Does anybody know if the J5 struts are the same length and angle as the PA12? I know PA12 and '14 struts are the same (at least I believe they are but educate me otherwise)? A second part to this question is the streamline tube size for the PA14. The 2+2 drawings of the struts show the same size for both front and back struts; 2.668" x 1.444" x .049. After looking at all the Cubs at the Exeter a couple of weeks ago I realized that using the same size struts both front and back doesn't make sense. There wasn't a '14' to look at so I hope some of the '14 drivers here can shed some light on this. So, I hope the experts here can help an experimental ( yes, it does end in "mental" and that's how I feel right about now on my project) guy figure this out.
Thanks
Marty57
 
Marty, I know that Univair supplies the sealed struts for both the J-5 and Pa 12 under the same part numbers, don't know about Pa 14, but suspect they are the same. Incidently, I had my 12 at Exeter, sorry we didn't meet up.
 
Marty, I would give Clyde Smith a call. If anybody, would know, he would. scruiser, I was hoping you would have come up to me when I was looking at your bird in Exeter but missed you. I would have liked to have met you.

Kevin G.
 
Kevin, probably too busy stuffing my face with that geat lunch to notice. Have followed your posts, your project looks great. Looking forward to meeting you.
 
Actuate,
I took a good look at your plane good to look it over. The doors are about the same so I was looking that over. Good to know about the j5 and '12 struts having same part numbers, that helps a lot. I think a call to Clyde Smith might be a good idea, thanks. This issue with the cable and pulleys has been the most confusing step to date. If I can get the wings mounted it will help a lot. Any idea of the size of the streamline tube used on the struts? Does any one have drawings of PA12 struts?
Marty57
 
Thanks scruiser. Hopefully, we will see each other in Exeter next year.:smile:

Marty, as far as the drawings are concerned, I'd drop an email to Cub Club and ask them to check their library of PA-12 drawings. If there is a drawing out there, I would imagine they would have it.

Kevin
 
Marty, If you can't find the drawings, you can take dimensions off of my struts the next time you come to Visalia....or I can take the diameter dimensions for you.....
 
Marty, I just went down to the garage and measured my Univair struts. Front is 3.896 X 1.294, and rear is 2.428 X 0.821. More precision than warranted, I know - it's just what it measured. I only checked one location, mid length. If more measurements would help, just let me know.
 
I believe there is a note in the Univair catalog that when using PA-12 struts on a J5 you have to use PA-12 jury strut clamps, so my guess is they are of different dimensions.
 
It makes sense that same struts are used but different jury strut clamps. The J5 struts i have look tinny compared to Super Cub but length is the same. I would not use the J5 for flight just fit up of wings if necessary. Cruiser, I sent you a PM. Geezer, you verified what I thought was the case regarding the front and rear struts being different, thanks. The Wag's are overbuilt but simpler using one size of streamlined material. I bet it was a lot cheaper material back in the mid '80's when the plans were drawn. I think this is starting to gel in my head. I plan on lots of documentation and pictures so others don't run into this mess regarding rigging the wings. I looked at Mike's video's yesterday and will be making some of the tooling for proper pulley alignment. Thanks guys; I would be lost without this site and all your help!
Marty57
 
Marty-

I think the PA-18 strut drawing has the lengths of the -5,-12, and -14 struts on them.


I know I have seen it somewhere.


If you are going with the PA-12/14 type cabane I would build your clamps in place once everything is rigged. The geometry is tough.



Tim
 
Marty, FYI drawings are on Christian Sturms Site. From Pa 12 parts list. Front strut-10098. Rear strut-10096.
 
behindpropellers said:
Marty-

I think the PA-18 strut drawing has the lengths of the -5,-12, and -14 struts on them.


I know I have seen it somewhere.


If you are going with the PA-12/14 type cabane I would build your clamps in place once everything is rigged. The geometry is tough.



Tim
Click to expand...
the top angle is slightly different for the shorter -12/14/j5 struts compared to -18.... or so I was told by the people next door that make them......
 
Mike's right as far as I have seen. The '18 part number from Univair is different than the 12,14, and 5. I did check the drawings again to see if I missed anything and didn't see anything on there about lengths for other Cub variants. I think I'm moving in the right direction finally and may have a handle on the pulleys. Hanging the wings is a must to make it happen; no way around it that I can see.
Marty
 
Marty57 said:
Mike's right as far as I have seen. The '18 part number from Univair is different than the 12,14, and 5. I did check the drawings again to see if I missed anything and didn't see anything on there about lengths for other Cub variants. I think I'm moving in the right direction finally and may have a handle on the pulleys. Hanging the wings is a must to make it happen; no way around it that I can see.
Marty
Click to expand...

I wasn't implying that they were the same, Piper often uses design tables for their parts.....
 
Thanks Behaidpropellers, your right about the Piper drawings and tables. They use I think one or two drawing sheets for all the bushings. I wish there was as good a reference for '5's, 12's and 14's as there is for the '18. BTW, I have looked at your pictures a lot during my project; very helpful. Your wood spar wing and my wing are about the same. Your pictures are one of the reasons I suspected the J5 struts I have might work to hang and fit the wings if necessary. Thanks for taking the time to post all the pictures; I know how much time that can take.
Marty57
 
I do not know the differences between the J-5, Pa-12 and PA-14 struts. If you have a set of J-5 struts put them on. It is the end rigging result that you are looking for. Set up the dihedral and washout that you want. Then if the strut dimensions need to be changed you will know just what you need. For now the J-5 struts will work fine for tooling purposes.
 
mike mcs repair said:
the top angle is slightly different for the shorter -12/14/j5 struts compared to -18.... or so I was told by the people next door that make them......[/QUOTE



Mike, Marty

I have a set of PA-18 struts that I have cut down and modded for clipped wing.
The other side 18 struts had corrosion so I have obtained a pair or PA12 struts
for the other side. They look to be the same and I am in process of modding these
for the left side. Are we talking about jury struts being different not the main struts.
I may need to look closer at the PA-12 struts.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
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