View Full Version : 4 Place Exp Cub Progress

03-21-2011, 01:23 PM
Just pulled the tapes after adding the color. Starting to look like a plane...Assembly time.

03-21-2011, 03:40 PM
Looks good Ron. Sullivans or Exp? Will it follow Gary Green's 'metal cub' ?
Dee's been hiding out from the cold down here for a week now. I will hide out up there from the heat in June ;)

Take care, Rob

03-21-2011, 04:28 PM
Tell Dee Hello! It is Exp...used some info from the 2+2...cub tail...jack screw...It has been a blast. Used the Stewarts system.

Dave Calkins
03-22-2011, 12:21 AM
Ron, you are getting close!!! Will be glad to see you get this one done.

Cool airplane.

Cub wing incidence, purchance??


03-24-2011, 12:19 PM
Nothing Special on the Wing Dave...think it is zero incidence like the J-3's...can't remember...that was three years ago...


07-25-2011, 01:53 AM
Getting closer...finished the gear...rolled it out of the shop this weekend.
Assembled the engine...and I am working on the many little things...
Painted the two side cowl pieces along with the boot cowl...
Beginning to have a love hate relationship with Stewarts Paint...I was painting the three pieces together...two sides and the boot cowl...things were going great....nearly time for a beer...was sitting waiting for the next coat...yes watching paint dry...when one side of the boot cowl began to make a few fish eyes...then as time went on...many more...just frustrating...
Will evaluate in the morning...most likely will have to sand back down and redo...the boot cowl was new metal...cleaned and prepped with the stewards Aluminum stuff...primed, then painted...the cowls is old metal...cleaned and prepped the same as the boot cowl...

Despite the minor set-back...I am getting excited to progress on this thing...


07-25-2011, 05:44 AM
Hi Ron,

We're at Oshkosh this week but give me a call anyway and I'll help you figure out the fish-eye's

You can call the 800# and they'll fwd it to my phone


King Brown
07-25-2011, 06:52 AM
Sorry to come in late. Is this a side-by-side four-place Super Cub? A buddy is starting such a project.

mike mcs repair
07-25-2011, 02:13 PM
fisheyes from contaminates on surface, or else they came out of gun/or line.... oily air or?

sometimes water/oily collect in low spot of hose, and then randomly brake free & get shot up line

i have also got that after disassembling gun and using paint stripper to give it a good cleaning(every couple years)... and not shooting a bunch of thinner through it first get any residual stripper out of gun....

mike mcs repair
07-25-2011, 02:17 PM
oh, another way to get fisheyes ....

on OLD paint that you are repainting over, NEVER scotch bright it or sand it till you have thoroughly cleaned it to pristine condition...

or you will get all the oil or contaminates squishes down into the sanding scratches, and will have a heck of a time fixing it..... I got the T-Shirt!!!!!!

07-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Sanded it down...re-shot the boot cowl...The cowl was new...I am using the Stewarts System Mike...No solvents...usually fish eyes in my limited experience begin to appear right away... In this case I was many coats into this and literally while waiting for my tack time to end the fish eyes appeared before my eyes...Heading out to the shop now to see how it is drying up...hopefully it will be fine...

King Brow...It is closer to a 12 or a 14...


mike mcs repair
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
...I was many coats into this and literally while waiting for my tack time to end the fish eyes appeared before my eyes...


sounds like it came out of air line then..

07-27-2011, 01:30 AM
Oh the little things...worked on the dash/panel today..

07-27-2011, 09:01 AM
It's great to see you making progress Ron - mine is hopelessly stalled for the moment. I'm curious, are you going with a single center stick like Kirk Ellis' or will you have dual controls?

Keep it up - she is really starting to take shape :up :up :up :up :up

07-27-2011, 12:20 PM
Hey Gunny...It will be a center stick...Saw the Hulk coming into Gulkana the other day...very cool plane...


07-28-2011, 09:43 AM
Looks good but you may want to have your welding helmet handy when the sun hits your "engine turned" panel. How do you get Air in the line on your Wagner?


07-28-2011, 10:31 AM

What are u going to hang on the front? What do you think she will weigh.
I am going to be in your state alot of August where might I find you. Would like to look at the plane.


07-28-2011, 12:52 PM
Would be great to see you Lloyd...going to hang a wide deck 0-320 on it for now...would like an o-360 someday. We are in the Copper Center Area...next to the Wrangel Mtns. Where will you be? If you are in the area you are welcome to our guest cabin...Are you flying?

Yes Ray...there are NO hoses on that ol Wagner...As far as the glare from that dash...no worries...haven't seen the sun since I left SD...


07-30-2011, 08:24 PM
Everyday...a little progress...Painted the rudder, flaps and ailerons today. The ailerons were already painted red...but I wanted the bottoms white to match the bottom of the wind...Only thing left to paint is the top of the flaps red.

Todays process: Stewarts Paint
Mixed 9 oz
1st Coat- Lite dust on all pieces...10 min wait- Horizontal coat.
2nd Coat: Same batch of Paint- Horizontal again...lite dusting...10 min wait
3rd Coat- Vertical---10 min wait time. ( Very important step...Drink 1 Coors Lite)
4th Coat- New batch of Paint...mixed 16 oz. Horizontal coat- 14 min wait time. Looking better every time. Put a bit more material on with this coat. Shop Temp is 75.

5th coat- Vertical-

All fabric parts will be painted today...tonight.. Will need to take a break...eat some grub...watch the Henderson Fedor fight the back to work...Progress...


06-20-2013, 02:06 AM
Well... It has been a while for me... Been very busy with life... My family decide to make a move to Valdez last year...so I spent the summer moving...sure took a while for only a 100 mile move... With the snow finally gone from our yard...the heat sets in... Decide to get back to work on the 4 place....the little things....cables, wires...hanging the wings....flaps....the list goes on...here she sits at the end of today....

06-20-2013, 08:31 AM

ER Upgrade
06-20-2013, 03:36 PM
Looks good. Four seats'd sure be useful. Is the left door sized for tossing pots? Dwayne

06-20-2013, 08:46 PM
Good to see it coming along. How are you liking Valdez?

Dave Calkins
06-21-2013, 10:41 AM
Ron, this is great!

I am developing a desire for this airplane. I have been flying a friends -12 this past winter (hey, someone needs to keep it oiled up), and it reminded me that I can haul 2 skiers to the top of the mountains as fast as my buddies in their -18s can do one skier.
...so I was thinking I wish I still had the PA-14. Then I thought.......why not have a true widebody 4 place? A stretch-Pacer or Double-Cubble would do just fine.

Keep up the work. I wanna see this thing fly! It looks great! D

06-22-2013, 10:44 AM
Thanks Folks....been fun...can't wait to fly it.... Dave it is closer in width to the 14 then the Hulk or Producer....

Dave Calkins
06-22-2013, 11:28 AM
Get off the computer and back to work on that thing!

03-11-2014, 07:10 PM
Worked a bit more today....don't like the cowl....think I will redo it...

03-11-2014, 07:41 PM
What advantage do you expect to gain if any over a PA-14 with a 160 or 180. I do realize there e is immence satisfaction in going your own thing though so good on you.

03-11-2014, 07:46 PM
No real advantage....except the exp tag... Yes....wanted to build an exp...already have a supercub...wanted a cub with more seats....

03-11-2014, 08:08 PM
There is a lot of good to be said of exp certification.

03-11-2014, 08:10 PM
Well... It has been a while for me... Been very busy with life... My family decide to make a move to Valdez last year...so I spent the summer moving...sure took a while for only a 100 mile move... With the snow finally gone from our yard...the heat sets in... Decide to get back to work on the 4 place....the little things....cables, wires...hanging the wings....flaps....the list goes on...here she sits at the end of today....

Your in Valdez have you met Joe Prax he has my super sportsman i built :)

03-11-2014, 09:16 PM
Yes...I know Joe....nice looking sportsman...

Greg Campbell
03-11-2014, 09:25 PM
Looks Good, I'm looking forward to hearing how it flys. Congrats on your progress.

03-17-2014, 10:39 AM
Couple of pictures of the fuel tank...Carbon Fiber! Randy from Carbon Concepts...a bit over five pounds...1523615237

03-17-2014, 01:27 PM
Pretty trick parts there, I run a carbon fiber fuel tank on my snowmobile. This cub was for sale on craigslist not long ago?

03-17-2014, 01:53 PM
Pretty trick parts there, I run a carbon fiber fuel tank on my snowmobile. This cub was for sale on craigslist not long ago?

Everything is for sale...however I have put a lot of years into this one...

03-17-2014, 06:05 PM
Hi J5Ron,

How wide is your cockpit? This is a wagaero 2+2 Right? thanks

03-17-2014, 10:16 PM
Hi J5Ron,

How wide is your cockpit? This is a wagaero 2+2 Right? thanks

It is similar to a 2+2 but it is not...can't remember the width...but will get a number....if I remember...it is the same as a pa14...

ER Upgrade
03-17-2014, 11:20 PM
Couple of pictures of the fuel tank

Very nice tank.

07-29-2014, 09:44 PM
1659016591Getting close... Pulled it out today...washed off the two years of Valdez dust...can't wait to test fly...can anyone advise an inspector for my exp? .... Trying to post a photo with no success...

07-30-2014, 08:37 PM
Looks great. The 2+2 with 180 hp gives very good performance and load capacity

07-31-2014, 05:41 PM
Nice looking project. I am curious as to how much it weighs.

07-31-2014, 07:23 PM
I thought you had that up for sale?

07-31-2014, 07:27 PM
I thought you had that up for sale?

Isn't everything for sale....can't have two planes in valdez...toooooo much snow....sell ya my boat too..

08-25-2014, 01:43 PM
Was doing some taxi work/testing on my exp cub yesterday...working out the bugs so to speak. I am finding that my tail is super light...or as some may say nose heavy. This exp cub has an O-320, with a cruise prop at the time. I kept adjusting trim...finally I was at full nose up...still very nose heavy. Ended up putting ten gallons of liquid in the baggage area...still very light on the tail. Tail comes up fast...on one taxi test I was in the air before I could keep it on the ground...got a little scary landing as I could not three point land it...no flair with full stick back...

I did not use the flaps...and only had fuel in the left tank...about five gallons...

Any adjustment ideas would be appreciated...David C and I talked a bit last night...but more input if you have anything... I think a Catto prop will be relevant.



Bill Rusk
08-25-2014, 02:18 PM
Ron - I have a couple of thoughts if you don't mind......

1) The airplane in its current state is DANGEROUS. DO NOT FLY IT! Find out what is wrong, and fix it before you fly it again. If you are running out of elevator, that far out of limits, your ability to recover from a stall, spin, or upset may be seriously affected.

2) Where is your CG? Where should it be? If you are not sure of either of these questions - step back and rethink it from the start. Find comparable aircraft with the same airfoil and compare their CG envelope to yours.

3) Other than CG the next place I would look would be at the angles. Wing angle of Incidence, Tail angle of incidence, and surface travel and limits.

I'm sure it can be fixed, and will be a great plane when you get it all worked out, but PLEASE be careful testing a One off experimental airplane.

( my opinion only and offered with humility and concern)


mike mcs repair
08-25-2014, 02:50 PM
Not optimal but maybe bolt a holder for lead under tail for now. Maule? Had a tube That a lead weight would go in at tail, then a matching empty tube under seat that you could move the weight when loaded heavy....

08-25-2014, 06:23 PM
Hi Ron,

I have a Wag sportsman 2 +2 and I think that is similar to what you have. Here is some of my experience with a similar issue. When I bought the plane it had a trim tab vs jack screw, I removed the tab and installed jack screw. My elevators are 3 in. over sized. O-320 with 8040 Mac. prop.

I when I put in the Jack screw I didn't put in the the cable and spring that connects the ele. horn to jack screw yoke. I think its called bungee spring. When empty with full nose up trim I still had to have alot of back pressure on stick on final . I installed the cable and spring with tension so that the elev. is in the in neutral position with neutral stick pressure when on the ground. What I dont like about this, is when you push forward stick on take off you are pushing against the spring pressure. I dont know all the ins and outs of why or what spring does but I do know it makes landing 1000% better with it than without. I see other planes where that spring/cable is doing nothing and the elev. has no tension on them.

That been said when I have near empty fuel, no gear in tail and just me in plane I'm still at full nose up trim when landing. I carry my tools and safety gear far aft and plane seems to like that. I tried elev. gap seals and noticed no difference in take off or landing and also tried a Catto and thought my trim would be diffent on final (Empty) with all that weight off the nose but I didnt see a change, which really surprised me. I'm not a high timer and still trying to fly the plane to its potential but in 0 wind half fuel and me/ safety gear plane will land in about 150-170 feet. By the way using flaps helped with the stick pressure and when normal load in plane it lands/ flys just fine.

I also made vgs, flap gap seals and flaps extensions, all these made the plane fly slower/ better.

Hope this helps some.


08-25-2014, 08:00 PM
Are you sure your trim is moving in the right direction? Double check to make sure you are full nose up not nose down. When you did you W&B what was the tail weight? Bill is right keep it on the ground until you figure it out.

don d
08-25-2014, 08:02 PM
What does your tail weigh on your empty weight and balance? Thinking it should be around 50 lbs. Are you getting full down travel on the trim jacks screw? Is elevator travel within limits? At cruise your elevator should fly nearly in line with the stab. Stab should have about 2 1/2 deg. Negative incidence compared to the wing.

being nose heaven is better than tail heaven and a easier fix.

08-30-2014, 08:35 PM
Way to go Ron! Sounds like the prize is in sight. I am back to my project now after building the shop for me and Barb. Doing rudder pedals now. Lots to do yet. Hope you figure out your balance issues quickly. Take care, Will

09-01-2014, 07:30 PM
I have not completed the WB...but barrowed a hanging digital scale...the empty weight is in:
31" bushwheels
3" extended gear
LW battery, starter, alternator.
0-320 wide deck
Catto 84-37 prop.
engine had 6 quarts oil.


09-01-2014, 09:28 PM
Nice job Ron. That is really light!

09-02-2014, 05:07 AM
:up:up:up Sweet!

09-02-2014, 09:43 PM
I think it will get a bit lighter...I just got my new carbon fiber tanks from Randy Apling in Wasilla...Carbon Concepts...if you CF product Randy is your guy...

10-02-2014, 11:20 AM
Did bit of work on the exp last night...looking at the flaps, I am not sure I have the deflection I want...measured the Super Cub next to me...about 48 degrees...My exp 2+2 comes around 35 degrees... Would like closer to 40-45...Ideas routed the cables like that of a 12.

10-02-2014, 11:22 AM
The other question I have...considering tires...currently it is sitting on 31" BW...as I noted earlier it 1045lbs with a 150 WD... Was thinking about getting 35" BW any thoughts...

10-02-2014, 05:11 PM
I think before 35s you should get some Full Lotus Floats. :smile:

10-03-2014, 05:09 AM
Will the bellcranks in the wing allow the flaps to go lower? If so, lengthen the short lower arm on the flap control handle to which the cable attaches. I did this to my Cub to get the flaps to 56 degrees. I also had to lengthen the long arm of the handle in order to get enough mechanical advantage to be able to move the flaps against the air loads.

01-21-2015, 11:52 PM
Hope to have a flight report this weekend...inspection on Friday. Can't wait to fly this bird!

01-23-2015, 02:52 AM
Who is the DER?

01-23-2015, 07:58 PM
Just finished the inspection of my plane...ready to fly...my DER came down from Fairbanks...really enjoyed meeting and working with him.

Dave Calkins
01-25-2015, 02:15 PM
Surely you have some more photos Ron.

i aint much of a reader.

01-25-2015, 02:49 PM
Heading out there now Dave...what do you want...hopefully the snow stops so I can fly it...

01-25-2015, 03:09 PM
"Hopefully the snow stops...." There is no such thing as bad weather, just badly equipt, and as Mr. Calkins has implied no excuse for no pictures. Just Joking, well not about the pictures.

01-25-2015, 06:31 PM

01-25-2015, 06:37 PM
DANG !!! Flipped it already??? LOL !!

John Scott

01-25-2015, 07:07 PM
18703187041870518706Hey you go Dave...more coming...

01-25-2015, 07:14 PM

01-25-2015, 07:19 PM
Not sure what's happening...the photo's look as if they are loaded upright...

Been a fun project...however it took some time...as I reviewed my builders log I started in 2008. I worked mostly summers, Christmas Break and spring break.

Looking forward to build some time in it... As I mention in another post...came in light at 1045lbs, 0-320, sutton exhaust, 31". It a basic fat cub...


01-25-2015, 08:01 PM
You have got yourself a nice little ship there! Looks like you did a great job!
Folks that have not messed with a PA12-14 really have no idea the utility they offer
We used Cubs for years for guiding hunters and used to have an Otter bring us fuel for the
Season, we were used to flying guides in baggage, sports in back seat, when we could,
And most times you struggled really hard to
Get the tail up, and it is very hard on tail, when turning an 18 loaded that way, seen plenty of them bent
From that caper , however that same exact load in a 12/14 ,with weight all up under the wing, was a piece of cake
And so much easier on airplane, another huge advantage for us was,
We used to plan on burning around 6-700 gals of fuel for Sept, guiding with a Cub,
Found out first year with a PA-12, we saved so many extra trips by hauling 2 people all the time,
only used around 450 gals. Your plane should work out to be a very nice all arounder for
ALASKAN FLYING! Good luck with the nose heavy part, and have had that problem before
And was always able to fix it with Bigger tail feathers, but sounds like yours could be
More complicated, have fun with it and keep us posted how you make out

01-26-2015, 10:46 AM

01-29-2015, 01:49 AM
With all those upside down photos, me thinks you must be an iphone/ipad owner. Oh well, at least you have the good taste to own a Piper-type A/C. Airplane looks awesome (if I stand on my head :-) ). Beautiful workmanship.

01-29-2015, 03:04 PM
...we were used to flying guides in baggage, sports in back seat...most times you struggled really hard to get the tail up, and it is very hard on tail, when turning an 18 loaded that way, seen plenty of them bent...however that same exact load in a 12/14 ,with weight all up under the wing, was a piece of cake...and so much easier on airplane...
Very interesting point. The 12's, 14's and Bushmaster types don't have to be loaded as far aft to carry the same load. I'd never thought about the advantages of not having to load the rear structure of the airframe as much. Interesting point.

01-29-2015, 11:57 PM
Flight Update: O wind day:

Level flight Power off... starts to mush around 38-39 GPS. Does really seem to want to stall.

Seems to slow down nicely on approach to landing...solid feeling over the lights in low 40's... Down in ground effect hanging on the prop slowest ground speed GPS has been 33. Ranges of speeds have been 33-37. Wheel landings 38-40. For slow three point landings extra trim is used.

While just flying around at 500' - 2400 rpms I was seeing 86. @2200 - 80.

Turns both directions nicely... Slow speed control appears good. Ailerons are light, however one, can' t remember which one seems slightly heavier in flight. Easy to aileron it up on one ski then the other during high speed taxi.

Definitely a different feel from my Super Cub, however with the Catto prop, a light empty weight , performance seems to equal or better it. The more I get in it...the better it feels.

01-30-2015, 04:23 AM
D.A, well the Pa 12 with two 180 lb men in back seat, will get the tail up about half the distance, it took
An 18 to lift two guys same size with one back in baggage, assuming both have same sized tailfeathers. So you can then imagine the difference it
Made in your takeoff runs, in soft sand or spongy wet tundra? Not to mention when you got ready to swing the tail
Broadside ,?the side loads that got applyed where amazing! ATLEE used to sell a box (probably still does) that you could clamp
Into the tail to tie the tubes togeather, I have seen guys whipping their Cubs around with lots of power trying
To get all that weight of someone in rear baggage to come around in ruff tundra , and bend the tail even with Atlees
Box? It just wont stand it.......... same load in a 12 with all the weight under the wings, will come right around,
Ditto on ski flying loaded heavily aft, just plain physics, of the weight applyed to tail wheel...... less is better.

03-09-2015, 12:37 AM
19305Glacier above Valdez. 5000'.

03-09-2015, 05:09 PM
I understand global warming has turned things on their head in parts of Alaska...

John Scott

03-10-2015, 07:48 PM
Pic button needs to be on the right for upright photos

07-19-2015, 11:05 PM
Been awhile since I have reported....on vacation in SD and still thinking about my plane. Progress has slowed. Here's the updates.

Took out the Carbon Fiber tanks...leaked after about 20 gallons...pretty bummed. Put the alum PA 18 tanks in and have had no issues.

Chasing cooling issues. Oil temp gets up there...above 230 ...gets there fast...no metal in filter...changed three cylinders....still same results...might consider a second oil cooler.
> changed because I had a could with lower compression, and one leaking exhaust into the oil sump. Engine is a 0-320 wide deck with 10:1 's... though it feels as I have a lot of compression pulling it through, I do not feel I have much for power. Catto prop is 84-37 and I can barely get 2000-2100 on take off.

The plane itself handles nice...catto prop is smooth as well. Considering changing the seating up front to one large center seat...I can not get used to flying on the side.

07-22-2015, 03:28 PM
Considering changing the seating up front to one large center seat...I can not get used to flying on the side.

One thing I love about a PA-18 is sitting "front and center" in the plane. Had a nice PA-14 that worked great, but still liked flying the 18 better for this reason.

Take care,


08-12-2015, 01:16 PM
J5Ron, can you post some photos of your single oil cooler installation?