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Spars & Ribs

D.A.

FRIEND
Free America
Chris and I are throwing around the idea of going back to metal wings. Bugs sent me a bunch of links and it looks like it would either be D&E or Carlson for spars - Any recommendation for which? Any recommendation for others?

Reading the posts that I could find it looks like CC ribs are the lightest but most expensive. D&E are $50 and Carlson's are $67 I think, and I didn't see individual rib prices for Dakota's but it looked like they were maybe $70-ish? Recommendations? The D&Es look pretty good at $50!

All input welcome.

D.A.
 
Nobody has a better wing deal than D&E that I am aware of. You might be able to piece parts together and scrounge and get a better deal but for a complete wing kit, D&E is a great value. You can do some lightening on it. I can assure you it is built like a Mac truck. The D&E spar blanks were good for 2000lb GW without modification. That is how it was when I purchased, not sure if changed now. Too bad they are in Florida now because they previously were in your backyard!
 
Chris and I are throwing around the idea of going back to metal wings. Bugs sent me a bunch of links and it looks like it would either be D&E or Carlson for spars - Any recommendation for which? Any recommendation for others?

Reading the posts that I could find it looks like CC ribs are the lightest but most expensive. D&E are $50 and Carlson's are $67 I think, and I didn't see individual rib prices for Dakota's but it looked like they were maybe $70-ish? Recommendations? The D&Es look pretty good at $50!

All input welcome.

D.A.

Depends on what you want out of it......

Go look at Bugs' website. He has an excellent build sequence of the D&E wing. The D&E wing is so unlike the Piper, it may influence your decision. The D&E wing that Bugs built is for 2000lb gross weight. Is that the sort of Super Cub you are building? Hopefully Bugs will come back in here and fill in some gaps.

I would also look at the Univair ribs. They seem to be in the same ball part price wise.

Cheers,
Andrew.
 
I just ordered our set of spars from DE. I think I talked to Scott, very nice guy, but he said he had a limited amount of spars remaining and due to the economy, he did not know when he was getting anymore. (6-7 sets left)
 
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I bought a set of D&E spars and they are beautiful for my pieced together Piper type wing. The web is a little thicker than Piper spec( + 10-15 thou). I would have bought thinner if I could have. I would drill lightening holes if I knew where and how big but for once in my life I would want the advice of an aeronautical engineer on that one. D&E: Scott is great guy, packaging is good, time to send was good. Their wing is considerably different from Piper in some areas. For instance the ribs attach to holes drilled in the web where Piper attaches to the cap. The drag/anti-drag wires penetrate the web where the Piper build attaches to "pulls" inside the spars. The compression struts are an extruded I beam where Piper uses a extruded square tube. Be careful of using "salvage" Piper parts in your wing (appendix 8 and all). Check with your DAR and make sure he doesn't consider using salvage ribs as repair of a major structure or you lose the points for the whole wing. I would ditch my stamped ribs in a heartbeat for a good set of Piper ribs as they are the lightest going if I could get by with it. Someone on SC.org mentioned they would be making the original Piper rib cap material soon although it would be .016 material instead of .012 . Could build your own (59 rivets and a bunch of aluminum foil like parts). I'm considering buying the cubcrafters ribs as they are probably second lightest but in the end I'll prolly use these that I have. Be sure and check out spinner's blog on here.
 
I found a set of pawnee wings cheap. We are going to use those ribs....I mean we are going to build ribs that look just like pawnee ribs. ;-) Some of them do need repair, who is selling the t material? I remember reading that, but I cant remember where.
 
Wood ribs ....... 7 oz each when finished ........ cost about $5.00 each ......... two weeks to build all ribs ......... different world altogether. Scratch building everything and my wings have cost me about $1200 for both including flaps and ailerons. I only present this so others in my shoes realize there are ways to fly for lower $$$ if you have lots of time. Will say this that a metal wing will go together faster than wood. What is the weight of the D&E metal spars? Curious to see how it compares to my wood spars at 9.5 lbs rear spar and 13 lbs for front; 2200 lb gross weight according to the drawings. I'm using a ready to bolt in and fly O290d2 (with light weight accessories) to start with so weight is an issue for me but not an obsession.
Marty57
 
Marty I weighed the front spar but can't find where I put the paper with the weight. I'm getting stacks of notes all over the place on rivets and struts and all kinds of stuff and it's getting out of hand . The spars are safely tucked away in my over stuffed hangar for the winter but I'll get them out and weigh them again when I get the opportunity.
 
I ordered spars and ribs from D&E back when Ernie Heald owned the business. We have one aircraft flying and two under construction. The spars are .090 extruded (Piper .063), and the ribs are stamped they are a little heavier, but with that 11' extruded doubler, they are hell for strong.
Ernie said he was at an airshow with his wing display and a man who said he had worked for Piper when they were still building the SC told Ernie that this is the way Piper should have built their wing.
 
I think there is a difference front to rear spar web thickness on both D&E and Piper. The Piper drawing #10741 indicates .075 front web and drawing 10743 shows .060 for the rear spar web. I believe the D&E front is .090 and I'm sure the rear is not .090. The rear is I think .070 or .075 on the D&E. I would sure like to get some hard info on where I could do litening holes without compromising the spars. I'm building for 1320#. I'm sure the load (even dynamic) isn't the same throughout the spar.
 
...I would sure like to get some hard info on where I could do litening holes without compromising the spars...

One idea is to put lightening holes where CC did for the SS Cub. Since the D&E spars are thicker than stock, seems copying the lightening methods of CC would be fine. DW put lightening holes in his and his plane hasn't turned to fine powder dust.
 
Yep I'm willing to mimick but I haven't heard DW pipe up with where he got his numbers. Ie where and how big. I'm not qualified to engineer those except " yeah I'll drill 2" holes every 6" .
 
I have a friend --name I won't mention-- but he does enginering for CC --Whose hole punches I barrowed if mem serv me right I think it was 3 1/2 front and 2 1/4 rear and a single hole between each rib except and the strut attach none on ether side there about 24" with no holes. the savings for me was just under 2lbs per wing.
 
Thats some info I can use. Same spacing front and back? DW how thick were your spar webs and did you have a doubler? 8# is ten minutes flying time. I am surprised it was that much. Very cool. Thank you for responding.
 
Thats some info I can use. Same spacing front and back? DW how thick were your spar webs and did you have a doubler? 8# is ten minutes flying time. I am surprised it was that much. Very cool. Thank you for responding.

2 x 4 = 8 You building a biplane Cub?
 
No I screwed up my arithmetic. Now you see why I can't trust myself with engineering!. That also explains why I thought it was more than I thought it should be
 
What the hell are you guys talking about ---8#---???

8# is 8 lb isn't it? Even I figured that out; we don't use # for pounds in New Zealand.

2 lb per wing weight savings is only 4 lb, not 8 lb.

I was making sure that I did not mis-understand.

Cheers,
Andrew.
 
Oh now I understand your math--- yea as soon as I can figure out how to shrink a photo I'll get the new cub on my avatar.
 
Good to see DW back. He has been so busy building and flying he has not been on the site much. I have had a chance to visit him on a couple of PDX overnights and he even let me fly his new baby. Wow!!! Awesome. DW did a LOT of great engineering and weight savings on his cub. I came home with all kinds of good ideas on how and where to shave weight. DW is a master. Heck of a nice guy as well. The Portland area is a hot bed of innovation, building, testing, experimenting etc. This is where the Carbon Cub came from folks. These guys are cutting edge. Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us.

Bill
 
Someone on SC.org mentioned they would be making the original Piper rib cap material soon although it would be .016 material instead of .012 . Could build your own (59 rivets and a bunch of aluminum foil like parts).

Any info on the material would be greatly appreciated as we are in the process of rebuilding our ribs right now. gsmx, who was it that had that material? Anyone know of a suitable replacement other than the wrap around stuff from Univair?
 
Any info on the material would be greatly appreciated as we are in the process of rebuilding our ribs right now. gsmx, who was it that had that material? Anyone know of a suitable replacement other than the wrap around stuff from Univair?

John Scott was the man.

Univair has the brace material too.

cheers,
andrew.
 
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