stewarts system - in the freezer
- Thread starter cgoldy
- Start date
Bugs66
Registered User
Spokane WA
I think for the test to be accurate you have to seal the backside of the fabric also. Someone on my field put a sample of Stewarts fabric outside for a year in a similar manner but water, moisture was allowed in from the backside which is not protected. So it cracked. You wouldn't believe the hell they went through in testing with the Feds to seemingly milspec process to get it STC'd. It always came through with flying colors.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
water and moisture is present inside every fabric cover structure(maybe not in desert..),
that's why we have to put drain grommets on...
so if thats gonna cause it to crack! eeek....
(no experience with it yet... just had to poke your theory.. sorry)
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
i have a drawer in my tool box i always keep those different cutouts in for later comparison, many things when fresh bend, but after a year or two then are brittler....
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Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
What fabric processes, Mike?
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
Mainly do dope through white base Color, then a polyurethane stripe Color(s) like aerothane,superflight,imron used to be my standard till they frowned on it.
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
How long since cure on that inspection hole cut-out?
I had heard Stewarts' exhibited exceptional cold-weather flexibility. I think Tamarack Vickie emntioned it......she's in Fairbanks, Alaska.
Stewarts' "pocket test" of a finished swatch of fabric is impressive, also. I have seen it first-hand. DAVE
AntiCub
Registered User
North Pole
It's -36F at my place today, and forecast to continue though the weekend. I've still got my stewarts sample from the class, I could throw it outside overnight then abuse it and post pictures this weekend.
Maybe 60below could chime in since he recovered with Stewarts a year ago. How's it holding up in this cold snap?
Phil
Edit: Though Ideally I'd have similar samples of Polyfiber and Randalfs to compare it with.
Maybe 60below could chime in since he recovered with Stewarts a year ago. How's it holding up in this cold snap?
Phil
Edit: Though Ideally I'd have similar samples of Polyfiber and Randalfs to compare it with.
MainlandCub
Registered User
New Zealand
I'm with Mike. The system has to withstand water on the back face. We have holes in the tops of the wings for the aileron cables, holes in the fuselage where the tailplane sticks out, a Super Cub just isn't a very waterproof thing. Same goes for most fabric aircraft. I remember watching the water just pour out of the flaps once after putting them up after the plane had sat out in a rain storm one night.
Anyway, how wet is it in a freezer? One overnight exposure isn't much. I don't buy that theory either.
Mind, how often does it get down to freezer temps in Adelaide?
Cheers,
Andrew.
cgoldy
Registered User
Moogerah Queensland Australia
I was thinking more of when flying. The sample didn't crack without being flexed. Just sitting on the ground at below freezing I wouldn't think would be a problem.
"How long since cure on that inspection hole cut-out?"
About 4 weeks
MainlandCub
Registered User
New Zealand
The guys carting venison out of the bush had blood pouring out of the Cubs. That was cotton and dope. If Stewart Systems can't cope with being wet it's not worth bothering with. Get real. Get stuck somewhere and you'll be stuck for a reason most likely weather, so it could be raining for days on your aeroplane. Whatever system you use it has to be able to cope with getting wet.
Bugs66
Registered User
Spokane WA
That must be why all these planes with Stewarts are falling out of the sky as we speak. I was out flying for several hours in OAT 18F lately, hmmm, no cracks. Not one. I've flown my plane in rain showers. Spilled avgas all over it. Funny nothing wrong with it. No I haven't rubbed MEK all over it. Go try it with Dope and Stits and see what happens.
You are free to choose solvent based systems, hey go for it.
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
I can't think of how I would/could manage to fold the fabric over on itself....Bumping into the fabric when loading or moving the tail, five gallon gas cans on the wing at -20F, might be a more realistic test basis for how it does in the cold....Where is 60below? I want to hear about some real world test.....
I'm here! I'm here! We (Vickie at Tamarack and a little of me)did pretty much a ground-up rebuild on the fuselage the winter of '07-'08, finishing up with Stewarts. We put it back together and flew it for hunting season and then pulled the wings and tailfeathers to do the same thing to them the following winter. As someone has mentioned, the fuselage didn't suffer just sitting there that winter, in as low as -40, but we didn't move it, of course, and only brushed the snow off. To make a long story short, I haven't flown it in the winter since the recover but the whole thing came through last winter all right. We had avery unusual three-day ice storm just before Thanksgiving this year and the covers are welded on with ice now. I took the snow off of it very carefully several days ago but I can't see under the covers.
There are other examples of Stewarts around Fairbanks that might be flying in the cold but I don't know for sure. Vickie has covered some "parts" and might have observed their after-use/abuse condition.
I sure haven't seen any problems with water. I got a bunch of water in the belly during a storm when my aft metal belly cover was off center and I didn't see any leakage until I opened the drains. (It was on floats with the tail sort of high) The paint didn't vanish into putty, either.
Soooooo...I'm not the one to prove that it will hold up while being used in the cold. I never flew past -20 voluntarily, anyway. The paint on my 12 was cracked all over when I bought it. Enamel? My 68 Citabria had the normal dings that come with time. We simply decided to not subject ourselves to any more dope.
My apologies for the length of this no-answer answer. If I fly it in the cold, I'll do a shorter update.
There are other examples of Stewarts around Fairbanks that might be flying in the cold but I don't know for sure. Vickie has covered some "parts" and might have observed their after-use/abuse condition.
I sure haven't seen any problems with water. I got a bunch of water in the belly during a storm when my aft metal belly cover was off center and I didn't see any leakage until I opened the drains. (It was on floats with the tail sort of high) The paint didn't vanish into putty, either.
Soooooo...I'm not the one to prove that it will hold up while being used in the cold. I never flew past -20 voluntarily, anyway. The paint on my 12 was cracked all over when I bought it. Enamel? My 68 Citabria had the normal dings that come with time. We simply decided to not subject ourselves to any more dope.
My apologies for the length of this no-answer answer. If I fly it in the cold, I'll do a shorter update.
Dave Roberts
MEMBER
Eastern Montana
I've had Stewart systems on our Bearhawk for 6 years. For 2 years it sat in a leaky open front hangar. I didn't fly much in the winter because it usually had ice on it. It doesn't have any cracks in the paint. Yes it has seen -40 F. No I haven't bent the fabric over against its self so can't really say anything there. Usually when that happens something under the fabric has to be replaced. I try to avoid that. One other thing I will mention. The Bearhawk is notorious for leaking fuel out the fuel tank caps onto the wing. I burn auto gas and have had no problem with the paint where the fuel has leaked on the wing.
Dave Roberts
Dave Roberts
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Helped Vicki do an annual on a Trooper Super Cub that had been recovered in Stewart's.Didn't see any cracking at all. She beat on a tail feather with her fist that she didn't like the finish on at 30 below or something like that and finally after many hits got a crack.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Since all of these other fabric systems were certified years ago the FAA had to come up with a set of modern testing procedures for the Stewart's System. I met the FAA inspector that became the FAA's fabric expert. He made them go above and beyond anything I could imagine. Personally after seeing the plus and minuses of all the other systems I would really like to see the results of them going through these same tests.
Hardtailjohn
Registered User
Marion, MT
If I recall, the FAA requirement was to bend it around a 1/4" mandrel, which is even above and beyond anything that you'd see in "real life" experience. I have folded Aerothane, LOTS of automotive paints, and AirTech back on itself, as well as the Stewarts. Newer Buty dope did pretty well...but old dope cracked easily. My results showed cracks on all but Stewarts.... like I've said before, I've got samples of Stewarts from '99 that you can STILL roll up in a ball and flatten back out and not have cracks. This is at room temps. (but like was said above... how many times is something that extreme going to happen in real life???) One thing I've found is that the failure rate goes up dramaticly with increased thickness of the topcoats....if you put anything on thick enough, it will crack.... and I'd guess if you try hard enough, you can get any system to crack at some point.
As far as water concerns.... I've also got samples of Stewarts that have gone through the wash (forgotten in my pocket) more than once, and they're just fine, and still pliable..... so in MY mind, that would pretty much squish any concerns of that nature.
I'm with you Steve, I'd love to see the other systems' results from being certified under the new regs. All the systems are good... you don't hear of failures unless someone trys to modify the procedures on their own or doesn't pay any attention to application... so with all the varying levels of competency that are applying these systems, I'd say that speaks pretty highly of ALL of them!
John
As far as water concerns.... I've also got samples of Stewarts that have gone through the wash (forgotten in my pocket) more than once, and they're just fine, and still pliable..... so in MY mind, that would pretty much squish any concerns of that nature.
I'm with you Steve, I'd love to see the other systems' results from being certified under the new regs. All the systems are good... you don't hear of failures unless someone trys to modify the procedures on their own or doesn't pay any attention to application... so with all the varying levels of competency that are applying these systems, I'd say that speaks pretty highly of ALL of them!
John
I've been airplane trapping every winter for many years in interior AK with different 18's and 12's with randolph, ptone, aerthane, and recently stewarts. In extreme cold they all can and will crack. With skis at times in tight spots you end up lifting on the tail and pushing on the fuse. At cold temps the tiniest of willow or small branch will "fracture" the paint on the wings at what would normally be a scratch. It gets worse with speed. The plasticizers or other flexing agents are just frozen, like everything else.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
KEY words to live by....
don't go for the short term smooth mirror finish.... that will be cracking in a few years.
keep it as thin as you can and get reasonable silver and color coverage.... I have plenty of aerothane, imron and durathane jobs from the 90's out there still doing fine....(some from 80's but have not seen planes for years so don't want to comment on them)
B
bearsnack
More key words to live by.... Soon it will be 2011. Technology has advanced. Those who doubt and live in the past technology will be left behind, those who dare and advance with technology will thrive.
- Taken from chinese fortune cookie
- Taken from chinese fortune cookie
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mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
B
bearsnack
Give it another 5 or 10 years and then see how the product has been weathering. My organs couldn't wait, so I am using Stewarts.
There is a saying that I like " Go with what you know". But sometimes you have to know when to step out into the unknown.
I was getting physically sick, very sick from the other products, even wearing all the protection. It was time for me to just say "no"
to the chemicals.
There is a saying that I like " Go with what you know". But sometimes you have to know when to step out into the unknown.
I was getting physically sick, very sick from the other products, even wearing all the protection. It was time for me to just say "no"
to the chemicals.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
I had a BAD dream the other night that I was doing another one with the superflight system 6.. and all that MEK used for everything.. ugggh that about did me & my heart in 3? years ago!!
