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utb 44E
11-03-2010, 08:09 AM
Annual in progress now and found my Right tank leaking around the welded fitting for the fuel gauge. So... looking for a right tank and also someone who can repair this tank.
I looked in to going with the Dakota tank but it requires removing the fabric and reworking the fuel bays because its a larger (23 gallon )tank.

mike mcs repair
11-03-2010, 08:16 AM
http://www.fadodge.com/ can repair yours...

my customer had a set he removed to go to the dakota ones, not sure if he has them any more or if they sold already.. you might PM him think his handle on here is pa12drvr see if they are still available

didn't wag aero have some aluminum ones same shape as original? were they legal??

utb 44E
11-03-2010, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the help Mike. Wag-Aero does have an approved RH and LH tank.
Anyone have any experience with these tanks?

mike mcs repair
11-03-2010, 09:10 AM
have seen them in one -14, he was happy...

I always make sure tank fits flat in its bay without rocking or low spots, with wing properly rigged... just like you do with an atlee tanks so there is no stress on the seams....

Kwatro
11-03-2010, 10:05 AM
utb 44E- I just removed a set from my PA-12 to install the Dakota tanks. Both were in good shape as removed. One was a "tern plate" and one was aluminum (I think). If interested, PM me and we can get details.

Mike

gpepperd
11-03-2010, 10:23 AM
We used the Wag-Aero aluminum tanks in my son's 12 and they were legal and worked well. Just my thoughts, I would no way go through the hassle of changing out a tank just to reinstall an original steel 12 tank. They are prone to both cracking and trapping water because of their design. My $.02.

Dave Calkins
11-03-2010, 10:39 AM
They are prone to both cracking and trapping water because of their design. My $.02.

Agreed! I have pulled them to repair, and had them leak in another spot only a few flight-hours later.

Soldered galvanized sheet metal...yuck!

I sure as heck wouldn't send them from Florida to Alaska and pay someone to re-solder a leaky joint!

WSH
11-03-2010, 01:07 PM
My 12 came with 1 stock Ternplate Tank and the other had been replaced with an "Air Energy" Aluminum, no longer around I don't think.

Both leaked within the first year or two and I fixed each one a couple of times. Later replaced both with the Wag-Aero tanks.

Within months, one of them started leaking. Called Wag-Aero, and they basically "Sorry, we only sell them for the manufacturer, there's nothing we can do".

Unfortunately, it's a poor design and they all seem to leak at some time or another.

pa12drvr
11-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Still have my old tanks and they're available for the price of shipping, but I can't imagine that they are a viable option to put back in a 12 (although they are in relatively good shape for original tanks).

If you've got the wings open...much better to put something new and shiny in. :P

cruiser
11-03-2010, 02:27 PM
http://www.scootair.org/website/default.html This outfit will "soon" have PA-12 PMA'd 19 and 24 gallon tanks. Anyone's guess as to how soon "soon" is. Jim

Tim
11-03-2010, 05:15 PM
We could always fly up there and ask them :)

Steve Pierce
11-03-2010, 06:16 PM
Those are Clarance Witt's Air Energy tanks. They are the best drop in tank in my opinion. Tried to buy the STC from the last two owners but they didn't want to sell. Hope they get them approved, I think they are good tanks.

cruiser
11-04-2010, 06:30 AM
Tim, Looks like rain for a couple of days, I'm up for a ride early next week. Jim

Seaworthy
11-04-2010, 04:24 PM
I put in a Wag Aero RH tank three years ago as well as the Cub Crafters STC for the fuel select valve. The Wag Aero tank hasn't leaked yet. You may have to do some new plumbing on the tank and installation of new fittings.

N5126H
11-05-2010, 05:24 PM
Put in the Wag-Aero tanks and forget about the problem. You will lose 25lbs +/- in the exchange as well. Have the new tanks modified for site gages and cross vent them with a drain front and rear on the right tank, change or drill the fuel selector to provide for "both".

utb 44E
11-05-2010, 06:10 PM
Is there an approved/certified fuel selector for the PA-12?? Dakota Cub ?

N5126H
11-05-2010, 06:20 PM
I am sure there is an approved valve. CC uses one. You might be able to even get rid of your header tank with the replumb as I discribed. I did all that and it worked great, but that was a few years ago.

utb 44E
11-05-2010, 06:36 PM
Header tank removed before I had the plane. I'll check Cubcrafters website. Thanks for the help.
Dave

mike mcs repair
11-05-2010, 06:40 PM
Is there an approved/certified fuel selector for the PA-12?? Dakota Cub ?


Yes

The added benefit is the stc with it gives you both tank position on a 12

Amy
11-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Is there an approved/certified fuel selector for the PA-12?? Dakota Cub ?

As Mike pointed out, yup! DC11383 8) I don't have the official price list in front of me, but I think the one I have is still correct at $325.

I don't have it up on dakotacub.wordpress.com yet, but I have pictures on my computer I can send you or there is the info sheet here: http://www.dakotacub.com/images/fuel%20selector%20-%20new%20products.pdf

Good luck!

Skip
11-05-2010, 10:05 PM
I have a pair of Wag Aero tanks and a left/right/both fuel valve for my 12. I am also going to go with wing root sight gauges and get rid of the underwing ones.

Skip
11-05-2010, 10:09 PM
Put in the Wag-Aero tanks and forget about the problem. You will lose 25lbs +/- in the exchange as well. Have the new tanks modified for site gages and cross vent them with a drain front and rear on the right tank, change or drill the fuel selector to provide for "both".

Why add a front drain on the right tank?
(Sometimes I feel like I was born dumb and have been losing ground since then)

mike mcs repair
11-06-2010, 12:18 AM
Why add a front drain on the right tank?
(Sometimes I feel like I was born dumb and have been losing ground since then)

so the engine don't get quiet on long steep decent.....(with some gas in the tank, but unable to get to an outlet)

cruiser
11-06-2010, 05:31 AM
I had a PA-12 tern plate tank out for a leak repair once. I don't recall it being all that heavy. Exactly where does the 25 lb weight savings come from when going to the Wag tanks? Thanks, Jim

Skip
11-06-2010, 08:16 AM
Why add a front drain on the right tank?
(Sometimes I feel like I was born dumb and have been losing ground since then)

so the engine don't get quiet on long steep decent.....(with some gas in the tank, but unable to get to an outlet)

my misunderstanding I thought they were takling about a quick drain to check for water

Steve Pierce
11-06-2010, 11:26 PM
Dakota Cub has a very nice valve. http://www.dakotacub.com/images/fuel%20selector%20-%20new%20products.pdf
Left, right, both and off and it doesn't require bolts used as stops to meet the FAR to restrict you from going to off in only one direction. It is made into the valve.

Headerless fuel tank STC from Cub Crafters. http://www.cubcrafters.com/parts/em_modified-fuel

kevin
11-07-2010, 09:56 AM
Steve Pierce is spot on. Dakota Cub's valve is very nice. If you just want to replace your valve, it is a sure thing to go with Dakota Cub.

However, if you want the insurance of not unporting your fuel lines at altitude in a descent when low on fuel, go with Cubcrafters fuel system. Their fuel system incorporates the forward pick ups in their STC. It will be easier to go that route than trying to get a 337 Field Approval on your own for that mod.

Kevin

WSH
11-07-2010, 07:18 PM
I had a PA-12 tern plate tank out for a leak repair once. I don't recall it being all that heavy. Exactly where does the 25 lb weight savings come from when going to the Wag tanks? Thanks, Jim

You won't, actually you can't, it's not possible. The Wag Aero tanks may be a pound or two lighter than the "stock" tanks, tops.

Been down this road several times. He also used to claim "30 lbs lighter!".

Here's one of them, notice the date. :lol:

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3500&highlight=tanks

cruiser
11-07-2010, 07:34 PM
Thanks Skip, I thought that sounded familiar. Jim

Seaworthy
11-07-2010, 07:56 PM
However, if you want the insurance of not unporting your fuel lines at altitude in a descent when low on fuel, go with Cubcrafters fuel system. Their fuel system incorporates the forward pick ups in their STC. It will be easier to go that route than trying to get a 337 Field Approval on your own for that mod.

Money well spent. I had two scares/engine quit re unporting at very low altitude. I put in the CC STC a few years back. Peace of mind amongst other benefits.

Skip
11-07-2010, 08:33 PM
What do you do use an elbow at the front and a tee at the back with the line attached there?

mike mcs repair
11-07-2010, 11:18 PM
What do you do use an elbow at the front and a tee at the back with the line attached there?

add a front line down front door post I would assume....

an elbow and tee would gain you nothing at all..(but I have seen it done for some reason.. I still can't figure the logic of that out)

StewartB
11-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Mine uses elbows and tees, but mine uses header tanks, too.

SB

Skip
11-08-2010, 12:25 AM
When I took my 12 apart it only had one header tank I think that is correct for that plane. I took one look at that soldered togther thing and made a new one out of 6061 tubing and welded ends on it with fittings.

mike mcs repair
11-08-2010, 02:39 AM
Mine uses elbows and tees, but mine uses header tanks, too.

SB

You sure?

I thought that went away. Or did I just shake my head and go hmm???? Umm???

Like I said I still don't see a hole in front and back of tank, then a tube between them doing a darn thing for you ....

StewartB
11-08-2010, 09:37 AM
Pretty sure. I remember picking up 4 finger screens. The front outlet uses an elbow to establish the line from that elevation and the line starts dropping as it goes aft. The rear outlet uses an elbow pointed down and makes a short drop into a tee in the line. That's what I recall for the right tank for sure. The left tank plumbing's memory file is missing. :D

SB

Skip
11-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Pretty sure. I remember picking up 4 finger screens. The front outlet uses an elbow to establish the line from that elevation and the line starts dropping as it goes aft. The rear outlet uses an elbow pointed down and makes a short drop into a tee in the line. That's what I recall for the right tank for sure. The left tank plumbing's memory file is missing. :D

SB

Thats what I was thinking that way you would have a continous downhill run on the line

mike mcs repair
11-08-2010, 10:56 AM
Pretty sure. I remember picking up 4 finger screens. The front outlet uses an elbow to establish the line from that elevation and the line starts dropping as it goes aft. The rear outlet uses an elbow pointed down and makes a short drop into a tee in the line. That's what I recall for the right tank for sure. The left tank plumbing's memory file is missing. :D

SB

Thats what I was thinking that way you would have a continous downhill run on the line

which does zero good.... think plane nose down some, is your line still down sloped?

since it was not down hill when in any type of nose down attitude in which would be when the rear port has no gas and front port has the gas....(these were atlee tanks on stewarts, there is no room for down slope, tank bottom is pretty much wing bottom.... I remember having this discussion.. it was just hooking a line from front of tank to rear of tank, no use...)

you might get some use of this method with little original tanks that sit high in wing... but why not make it so system is guaranteed to get every drop out every time if going through the effort?

StewartB
11-08-2010, 11:03 AM
Is the line downsloping in a descent? Yes, it is. Unless I'm doing a steep power dive, which I don't ever do. The descent profile in my planes uses a fairly flat attitude whether descending with power or without. The point of the two outlets is to maximize the ability to get every drop of fuel from the tanks. Does the double outlet help? It should, although any advantage is subtle. It would be hard to convince me it hurts. Marty and I didn't do the fuel system. Charly Center did. I never thought to tell him how to do it. I simply asked him to fabricate it like it was his own and was happy with what he provided. So far it works great. That's all that matters to me.

SB

mike mcs repair
11-08-2010, 11:38 AM
.... So far it works great. That's all that matters to me.

SB

you also have header tanks.. this is more about headerless system, where fuel must always drain and not get unported..?

i thought we changed yours to tubes down front door posts... ???

the wings bottoms(& Atlee tank outlets) are about level in level flight on -12...
there is not much of a way to down slope tube between outlets with atlee tanks doing this..... any slight nose down with fuel not completely covering rear port will suck air from rear port when..... you get my idea..??

it might be a valid way with any other tanks, since they sit higher in wing, and have room in wing root to down slope, just not much slope with atlees since its already at bottom of wing....

Skip
11-09-2010, 10:27 PM
I talked to Cub Crafters today and the right fuel line in their STC runs down the rear door post and across to the valve

kevin
11-09-2010, 10:37 PM
I talked to Cub Crafters today and the right fuel line in their STC runs down the rear door post and across to the valve

Skip,
I have the Cubcrafters STC on my -12. I ran my lines per their drawings. My right front line runs down the front down tube on the side of the windshieldacross the firewall bulkhead and tees in to the other line going to the valve. The right rear line crosses the rear of the PA-14 style cathedral brace, then down to the valve. I am still under restoration. I don't expect any problems with it.

Skip
11-09-2010, 11:23 PM
That makes a lot more sense than what they told me today. Mabye the guy I talked to didn`t remember correctly

moneyburner
11-10-2010, 02:08 AM
Thanks for the help Mike. Wag-Aero does have an approved RH and LH tank.
Anyone have any experience with these tanks?

I have two.

They leaked when new, but I took them to Atlee to have sight gauges welded in, and they fixed them then.

Wag-er-oo could care less when I asked them what they thought of that. They didn't respond to my emails.

There is nowhere else to get stock PA-12 18 gallon tanks that aren't about 63 years old. Someone has an STC to install PA-18 tanks, which can be found behind every tree.