Prince Propeller Questions

I received my Prince propeller and installed it last week. It is 84/44 and replaces the Sensenich 76/54. With the Sensenich, I was making 2350 RPM on takeoff and 2475 in level flight at full throttle. On EDO 2000s I ran at 2300 to maintain about 88MPH. I flew with the Prince, but only for a half hour before the weather came down. I was surprised to see that my takeoff RPMs decreased to 2250 and level flight to 2350. I expected the opposite. I also found that at 2250 RPM I am seeing closer to 95 MPH. I can't seem to reconcile this in my feeble brain. Lonnie Prince was out of the office, so I haven't been able to ask him for his thoughts, so I figured I'd start here. Can anyone help me understand what I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

Mark

What engine are you using? How does it feel on takeoff?

Using the Superior O360. It seems to have taken a couple seconds off of the takeoff run.

Hmmmmmm----that does sound odd. I have a Sensenich cruise prop (metal) 74-56. I then went out and bought a Sensenich (wood) 80-44 from Jim Drommeter.
With the wood prop the RPM's went up T/O and cruise and TAS went down about 8-110 MPH . My T/O distance was shortened significantly and rate of clim (light) went up to 1100 FPM.

Your present set of circumstance is puzzling but that additional four inches of prop may be the key. THAT is a LONG prop.

Sounds like your prop has to much pitch. My consider reducing the pitch to 42.

Cub_Driver

This sounds like a perfect application for 10:1 pistons :lol: You will like.

Does your prop have the P-tips? The Prince web site http://www.princeaircraft.com/TheProp.aspx says that the P-tips give the equivalent of 4 more inches of diameter. This would account for less rpm in my view. What was the change in your takeoff time and rate of climb? Were they better? Your cruise is certainly better. Nearer where it should be. A stock from the factory PA-18 on 2000s should cruise a little over 100 with a stock 7456 prop. At least this has been my experience.

Yes, I have the P-tips. With two on board and full fuel (48gal) it doesn't get on the step as well as I'd like, but accellerates well once I push it over. Climbs at 750 FPM at 65 MPH. I'm thinking of sending it back to Lonnie and having him reduce the pitch to 42. The hub is marked 44 and that is what I asked for. Any clever ways to measure the pitch while it is on the plane? I hope to talk with Lonnie today and hopefully learn more.

You ought to be able to turn 2700 rpm at full throttle in level flight. If you are able to do this you should get excellent takeoff and climb performance. One thing that you could do is to temporarily connect a manifold pressure gage to figure just what power you are using. My guess is that it will be reading high. You seem to have way too much pitch. I am not in a position to be able to tell you how much.

Thanks for being the guinea pig. I have been waiting on pins and needles for a flight report. Keep the info coming. How long did it take to get your prop? How is the customer service?

It took 18 weeks to get the prop. Lonnie said they could do it in a lot less for a lot more $$$. I decided to wait. Lonnie is a great guy to deal with and bent over backward to help me set things up. They sent an adapter plate and hardware that wasn't compatible with my particular installation. When I called and described what I had, he sent the right prop extension and hardware overnight on good faith. I just talked with him about the performance and he said to send it back. It sonded to him like they might need to cut down the chord of the blades some. They will do it at no cost other than shipping. He said after they receive it they will take all the necessary measurements and determine if it may also need to be shortened, but he doesn't think so. Others are using the 84" prop with as much as 46" pitch. They can adjust it to as low as 42" if necessary. He will call me with their findings before making any changes. I'll post more when I know more.

Any new News?

Any Updates?

Correct prop?

I'm running a XP360 in a Smith Kit Cub. My prop is a wood Sensenich 80x48. At full throttle, I will see 2700rpm. Speed at 2700 is ~135mph. No, it won't keep up with the 182. I'm not sure what the TO rpm is, but it gets off real fast, and climbs out (solo) at about 1500'/min. Why would I change? I too wish the Aeromatic was ok'd for use with the 360 engine.

Mike

Well, I finally got the prop installed and flew it this week. I had some down time and didn't get to fly with it until now. Lonnie said they reduced the chord of the blades and I'm now getting a little over 2500 RPM straight and level. Better, but I still want to see 2700. I just talked with Lonnie and he said they are going to build me a new one at a 42" pitch. He said to keep using the one I have until I get the replacement. There is another pilot on the field with an O390 putting out 220HP that wants to try it out before I send it back. Lonnie said to let him give it a try, as long as I send it back to him in an airworthy condition. He also said they are using an improved urethane leading edge on their new props that will provide additional protection for water operations. He thinks that they should be able to ship in about thirty days. More to come!

Mike prop80x48 @ 2700=2.04 miles per minute or 122mph check your airspeed inst

I have a Prince 84/44 on THE Carbon Cub and the jury is still out. But, initially I have 2300 RPM static and 2650 at TO. Flat out is 2700 RPM at 122 MPH. The cruise RPM at 105 MPH is about 2100 RPM. Climb out with a 225 lb. pass and full fuel trimmed to 60 MPH is 2600 and 1050+- FPM. All of which is dependant upon OAT at 5100MSL.

mikeo wrote:
Mike prop80x48 @ 2700=2.04 miles per minute or 122mph check your airspeed inst

AND

coyotegetter said:

I have a Prince 84/44 on THE Carbon Cub and the jury is still out. But, initially I have 2300 RPM static and 2650 at TO. Flat out is 2700 RPM at 122 MPH. The cruise RPM at 105 MPH is about 2100 RPM. Climb out with a 225 lb. pass and full fuel trimmed to 60 MPH is 2600 and 1050+- FPM. All of which is dependant upon OAT at 5100MSL.

Click to expand...

This is an interesting comparison. Using the old rule of thumb of reducing the pitch 1" for each diameter increase of 1", both of the above props are the same. Which is verified with the same flat out/rpm (122mph/2700rpm). Perhaps Marker60 should check his tach and airspeed indicator?

I am following this posting with interest as I am considering a Prince prop for my 180 Cub.

Correction (before I get rubbed too hard).
2100 RPM is 95 indicated and 2300 RPM is 105 indicated.
The prop also has P-tips and the leading edge protection.
Smooth throughout all ranges and seems to be faster to accelerate. We did do a dynamic balance on it and it helped dramatically.

Rerince Prop

I have been running a prince Ptip prop on a Wagaero 2+2 for about four years. I had a very tired engine and was having trouble getting any static rpm but it had a nice cruise speed. Lonnie whittled on it a bit and gave an extra hundred R's but still could barely make 2600 Rpm. flat out. Lonnie explained that his props flex as the speed increases and this changes the pitch (a poor mans constant speed). I have just replaced the old engine with an IO360 with 10-1 pistons. I can't really get a static RPM because the brakes and tire won't hold it. My take off RPM is 2500 and it goes almost straight up at 45mph indicated. My cylinder temp is still running a little warm (400 degrees) if I push it to hard yet, so have kept it under 2500 rpm. most of the time so far. I have just 11 hours on it to date and will give it a few more ours before pushing to much. My cruise at 2400RPM on my airplane is 135 mph Ind. so @ 2600 to 2700 RPM (if I can get the Prince Prop to turn that much) should be great. Lonnie put the new leading edge on so I can fly it in some rain with out erosion, I hope.
Jim Lindner

Jim,
Which prop do you have on your 2+2? I'm building a 2+2 (tandem seating) with a cont IO360 and am considering the prince prop, I've contacted Lonnie about which prop to use and would like to get some real world data. Thanks dave

Rerince Prop

Dave,
The Prop is 76" long but I really don't know what the pitch is now. I believe it was some where around 52 before Lonnie whittled on it. It seems that trying to relate these wood props to a metal prop is almost impossible and that may be where the confusion comes in. I have a Whitman Tailwind and trying to figure out what a comparable metal prop would be to my wood prop is very confusing. If I had had the new engine on the 2+2 at first, I'm sure that it would have preformed great ( as Lonnie advised) without having to mess with it. I didn't build the airplane ,so I don't know what the conversation between the builder and Lonnie was.
Jim Lindner

It is a long time since we heard how the prince propeller is performing compared to other late market products.Very little has been spoken of the virtues of the prince prop fitted on the supercub.Any comments.

I have a Prince 82/44 and flew it about 200 hrs. flew into some sleet, eroded the leading edge and had to send it back to Lonnie. It is a great cruise prop but not very good takeoff or climb performance. I think it is too fragile for a cub even with his leading edge protection. I replaced it last summer with a constant speed RV10 Whirlwind huge improvement in takeoff performance, cruise is about the same.

I have been running a Prince Ptip prop on my amphib for about four years. It pulls harder on run up, cruises faster, and climbs faster than my Sensenich wood prop. I like it so much I ordered another for my experimental 14.

What is the pitch and diameter of your prop and engine power please?

The engine is a Warner 165 radial and the length is 86 inches on a PA12.

There appears to be no enthusiasm for this prop.I was told by Backcountry that this was the best performing prop for the supercub and bought one accordingly.Surely they would be right?

No "enthusiasm".. not sure about that Ron. Just about every Murphy guy flying floats has one pulling him along... other than those that have stuck with their 42 lb Sensenich's.

I fly behind one.. it's a bit course for my 150.. coming off an H2AD 160 but it pulls better than I could ever get my 3 blade Warp Drive to hook up. I sit pretty high on floats.. and have had no issue with water erosion... even flying in the rain on a regular basis.

...oh, they do have a funny noise to them though!

Hi everybody, i thought i would share with you some data about the carbon P-Tip.
I have 200 hours on my BushCaddy equipped with a 76X55 Carbon P-Tip mounted on an 0-360 with dual P-Mag electronic ignition.

In december 2011, we compared my 76X55 P-Tip with a 80X44 Borer on a friend experimental SC equipped with an 0-360.
The comparison between the 2 props was done within 1 hour, weather condition did not change during the test.
With the P-Tip, take-off roll was shorter, hard to say by how much as we did not take measurements but it was definitely shorter.
Rate of climb went up by 250’/min and cruise speed went up by 8mph.

But the best part is that the engine can be run in the 1800-2200rpm range without any vibration. That was not the case with the Borer.
Since then, my friend is flying behind a 76X54 Carbon P-Tip and the Borer was sold.

Last saturday, i did some pull test with my aircraft using an electronic scale. OAT was 75F, elevation 70’ ASL.
Electronic tach, double checked to make sure it’s accurate.
The pull test showed 650lbs at 2430rpm. Not sure if it’s a good pull for a 76’’ prop, that’s the first time i’m doing a pull test.

I’m no prop expert, this is my first aircraft and i’ve not tested any other prop but this prop seems to change pitch as the speed is increasing.

It’s turning 2430rpm static, about the same RPM on climb out and 2650rpm full throttle in leveled flight.


My prop has leading edge protection. I have flown into light rain and light snow and it’s still in perfect shape, but it only has 200 hours.

All in all, i’m very happy with the prop. It’s light, it’s really smooth and there's no vibration whatsoever thru the entire RPM range.


Here are some pics taken on 18 dec 2011 during the Borer vs P-Tip test.





Hope this help