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Dan`s cost to rebuild a PA-12

N

NunavutPA-12

FRIEND
67.8N,115.1W CYCO Canada
I just bought a PA-12 on floats. Specifically, it`s an Experimental PA-12 replica with a PA-12 fuselage, PA-18 wings and tail. Wouldn`t need any STC`s.

The engine is good, the fabric fair. I`m thinking that once I get the beast paid for I`d like to get it rebuilt with most of the Alaskan mods, PA-18 gear, big Bush Wheels and tail wheel, left-hand door, bigger fuel tanks, maybe a belly tank, re-covered and new paint.

Anybody got a ball-park figure of the cost to do all this?

I`m thinking Dan`s in Fairbanks but I`m sure there are other options out there.

Wait a minute ...... let me sit down first!

Larry
 
NunavutPA-12 said:
I just bought a PA-12 on floats. Specifically, it`s an Experimental PA-12 replica with a PA-12 fuselage, PA-18 wings and tail. Wouldn`t need any STC`s.

The engine is good, the fabric fair. I`m thinking that once I get the beast paid for I`d like to get it rebuilt with most of the Alaskan mods, PA-18 gear, big Bush Wheels and tail wheel, left-hand door, bigger fuel tanks, maybe a belly tank, re-covered and new paint.

Anybody got a ball-park figure of the cost to do all this?

I`m thinking Dan`s in Fairbanks but I`m sure there are other options out there.

Wait a minute ...... let me sit down first!

Larry
Click to expand...

Sadly enough the best way to buy one of these planes is to just buy what you want already rebuilt. It will cost more than you wanted but it will cost less than buying something and trying to build it into what you want.

Welcome to the club.
 
I would guess 100K. I received some bids for similiar and they were all over 100K.Cub Crafters starts at 50K add 15K for mods, 10K for misc. repairs.
 
I know there is a Dan's in Anchorage but not aware of 1 in Fairbanks. Unfortunately 12's are as much or MORE to build than an 18. No 2 are the same and parts are usually a mix of 18 & custom fab. Coverwork alone last time I checked was around $12,000 thru paint with no crazy schemes. Another $35,000 to disassemble & reassemble with some mods. Unfortunately anytime you Open up the Plane it may be a can of worms you are opening to :eek: Bushwheels are $ 3450 new tailwheel assembly $1750 Big tanks ie Atlee's $1500 a piece ( Nix the belly tank with big tanks) or go belly tank with stock wing tanks to avoid redoing the wings, the left hand door isn't to bad its the rerouting fuel lines & trim cable no rear throttle change the work load for any shop. Add instrument & wiring it gets Expensive Quick. Shop around and save your $$$$ it will be worth it in the end. Nothing like a new rebuild to fly. Like Tim said best to buy 1 the way you want it or just fly yours until it is Time to Rebuild
 
I just could not afford a cub if i lived out west. The prices here in maine can be expensive but no where near what ccrafters or dan's probably charges. They do beautiful work, but just ridiculous. 35,000 to disassemble and reassemble, wow.
 
In defense of those guys they charge $80 an hour and about 500 -700 hours to rebuild thats $40,000 minimum in LABOR only! $12,000 for coverwork plus parts real easy to get to $75,000 from there I am a Working guy with a Working plane and have done ALOT of MY own work and its still expensive. Maybe we can get some Stimulus from our government to further general Aviation!! :D
 
-12 or a pacer always cost way more to do a complete rebuild ( like only reusing fuselage and pedals & wings) than they are worth........


almost every darn part on a 12 project you make by hand.... where as -18 you could by parts that bolt on mostly.... but luckly I enjoy making all the parts...

when I was starting to learn to wrench, the first guy I learned under sumed it up well when i talked of a pacer.... the parts & time/labor cost the same and when you are done you still only have a pacer.. which weren't worth $$ a thing then... but if you did a -18 you'd have something semi worth the investment$$
 
Before I bought my 12 I was seriously considering one that was exactly what I wanted. Turned out it had the original Blue River version 1.0 (which has been disasterous) and the owner admitted it had some ringworm.

I called Stewart Systems and they confirmed that the finish would only get worse with time and the only way to deal with it was probably to recover the airframe. Around where I live, a cheap recover job is roughly $15K and an expensive one is more than $30K. Then when you get the fabric off who knows what you'll find underneath that needs repairs.

As the fabric was over 12 years old and the owner suddenly stopped sending pictures when I asked him about the finishing system, I quit pursuing that airframe. He clearly thought the plane was worth more than it was with regard to the paint. A shame because other than that it was probably terrific.

My best advice is to fly the heck out of it for as many years as you can, so you can justify the cost of the rebuild. It will be down for a long time unless you're able to afford to have a shop work on it full time. It just wasn't an option for me and I work too much to get a rebuild done in less than a couple of years doing it myself.

Good luck with your decision.
 
Thanks Steve, you're right, I mixed up the names. The post has been corrected. I can't remember the details of Stewart Systems' relationship with the Blue River process but my research led me to them for some answers.

Andrew
 
Univair will sell any part that was built from the factory. You can make your own parts as was described on a post above but you have to take into consideration the amount of time that it will take to build the part and buy the materials to build the part with then price Univair. In most cases, it is cheaper to buy the parts from Univair. If you are paying a shop to do the work for you, then it is a no brainer that it will be cheaper to buy from Univair and I do not mean to discredit the AP/IA's on this site because I know that they do some nice work. In many ways, I feel like I own Univair and I know that I am not alone.

The best way to answer your question is that to do what you want is all shop time and labor providing that there is nothing wrong with the structure. I would suggest to call some shops, ask them what is their shop labor rate and ask them a general question like if they were to strip the fabric off a flying airplane, blast and epoxy prime, refabric it and paint it, how many hours would it take providing that there is nothing wrong with the structure underneath. I would then add a percentage to that just to play it safe. I would use this as a ballpark figure only.
 
kevin said:
Univair will sell any part that was built from the factory. You can make your own parts as was described on a post above ..........
Click to expand...

sorry, I should put it in context of what I meant..
a basic 12 gets sooooo changed in adding all the mods you MUST make most of it..... compared to a -18, was not just referring to a strip cover and recover job......
 
I agree. Most -12's that have mods are those that are being installed like what an -18 has already(cathedral brace for example and landing gears for example). Some mods automatically lead to others such as when adding extended baggage now have to add -18 elevator controls.
 
-12 Rebuild

I must admit I looked at this post a couple of days ago and got a good chuckle. Not because of the post or any of the responses, but because of the great education I am receiving rebuilding the -12 in my shop. I knew I was buying a flying project and that it needed to be recovered, but hey, how hard can it be, just like a champ or a J-3 right? :drinking:

In reality, nothing could be farther from the truth. The fellow at Cub Crafters says they charge and extra 500 man hours right off the bat. I now totally understand why and don't begrudge them the least for doing it.

If the whole thing is apart I said, why not put flaps on it? And anybody who wants flaps would certainly like and extended baggage compartment wouldnt they? (If I make an extended baggage compartment I have to buy three STCs......really?) On and on it goes......

I honestly dont mean to make this post a complaint because in reality I am having the time of my life working on it. Its kind of like when you first start to learn a computer an the learning curve is steep, eventually you figure it out. My plan is to continue my slow but steady pace and do the highest quality work I can. Hopefully in the end it will work out. :D
 
I think I may end up doing the same thing - eventually. 50 to 100k is out of my league. I could do it, but I'd end up dead and my wife would be in jail!:angel:

My PA-12 has -18 tail feathers, -18 wings and flaps It's registered "Experimental" so no STC's and I can (if I the skills can be learned by an old dog) do the work myself.

I have some limited experience with fabric and painting. Is replacing the fabric on a -12 any harder than doing it on an -18?

Is it realistic to think I could re-fabric and re-paint in the eight months of weekends and spare time between November and June?

For me, the important mods are more fuel and extended baggage.

Larry
 
You would be well served by getting to know Erik Larson (eslboat on this site). Erik rebuilt a PA-12 that took honors at Oshkosh, and he would have a good sense of what it takes for a regular guy to do what you're proposing.

Eric
 
Is that the 12 with the W bottom floats? it took me 5 1/2 weeks 10-12 hrs a day to cover my 12 not including paint.
 
I recovered my PA-12 in 2-1/2 months, only working on the weekends, up to where it was ready to spray. In all, the plane was in the shop just over a year to add all kinds of mods & new this & that. The pain to my wallet is now only a distant fading memory compared to the joy of flying it.
windy
 
Wow 2 1/2 months. How about 15 YEARS ? :eek: What an education. :D I had visions of a quick turn around but it was not to be. First thing I discovered was mouse nests in the wings---much corrosion. A bent front spar that had been repaired with a very large hammer. :-? Through patience and perseverance good used parts were found. MANY new cub friends were the reward of this long journey. So many were so helpful as were the 3 AIs who guided me and in one case (Randy Rubbert ) who saved me from giving up. And now with nearly 10 years of flying---more new cub friends found and some breathtaking scenery has slipped under the wings. If this year is half as good as last year it will be a very good year. :lol: ---geezer Dan
 
yep, figure out how long you think the job will take you times that by 2 and you might be close. the nice thing is if you are working on your own plane the only person that has to be happy in the end is you (and maybe your wife)
 
KJC -- I really admire your attitude! Sounds like you are enjoying the journey and finding humor and joy and friends along the way. Congratulations.

Do you have some pictures posted?

Vickie
 
Ground up rebuild on mine cost over 100K this does not include my labor which was about 2300 hours. If you're going to do it you really want to do it right. It is a time consuming and tedious job but one of the most rewarding things you can do in life. BTW mine is for sale for a great price in the classifieds here.

Erik
 
pa-12 rebuild

GIVE DEE AT COPPER RIVER AIRMOTIVE A CALL.........BETTER YET CALL DAVE STACY AT ANCHORAGE DRAG BIKE MACHINE SHOP ......HIS PA 12 WAS IN SAD SHAPE WHEN WE GOT IT AND NOW IT'S A STRAIGHT FLYING BEAUTIFUL PLANE WITH LOTS OF MODS........
 
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