Ernie Gann - Quoted from "Fate is the Hunter" 1961

I was re-reading one of my favorite books when I came across some words which have a special meaning when considering recent events and how the press reports them. The following quote is from "Fate is the Hunter" by Ernest K. Gann - He begins Chapter 15 with the following sentence:

To suggest, even by inference, that captains should be given sole credit for moving a multi-engined airplane from one place to another would be the ultimate in strutting dishonesty. Each man in the crew has his manifold duties, and unless he performs them well, the captain is sorely tried

Click to expand...

I watched Sully as he attempted numerous time to redirect the attention of the press to the other members of his crew - but, they wanted a hero. I am not diminishing the superb leadership he demonstrated. But I do hope that when the final chapter is written on this saga, the accomplishments of the entire crew plus those myriad of New Yorkers who responded with unbelievable speed and skill will be included with appropriate emphasis.
There are many heroes to be recognized.

amen

Add this to your how to ditch file!

http://www.mercurynews.com/centralcoast/ci_11602402?nclick_check=1

Apparently Sullenberger and Ogg are not the only successful ditching stories around. I'm looking for more details and the date of this incident. What follows is a cleaned up version of a letter from a retired airline driver, former tanker pilot, retired USAF fighter pilot friend of mine.

"Some 35-40 years ago, a Japan airlines stretch DC-8 on approach to San Francisco Airport landed short into San Francisco Bay. It came to a stop less than 100 yards from shore. Simple pilot f*** up.
It was one of five Japan Airlines incidents that happened that year after JA quit hiring Western pilots and used home-grown Asian crews.
Their pilots lacked experience with the complex aircraft, but followed protocols and procedures religiously ... whether they were applicable or not and were completely unadaptable to variety of circumstances.
Of real note is that the water landing was so benign. A smooth deceleration without major jerks that might cause injuries or potentially break up the airframe.
It was a smooth water landing, as was the case for Sullenberger, and all the engines stayed attached to the DC-8. All the engines were running when the crew inadvertently flew the DC-8 into the water. All on board survived and there were very few minor injuries.
After 55 hours in the water, the airplane was recovered, thoroughly rinsed/repaired/inspected, and the aircraft was returned to service, though with an increased corrosion inspection program."

There is a comment that having power made for a smoother touchdown, but usually, if you've got power, you won't be ditching ... except accidentally.
I note that Ogg had two of four prop engines running when he ditched, but it wasn't into smooth water, and the tail did break off on impact, but the fuselage floated long enough for the rescue skiffs from the picket ship to arrive and pick up the passengers. There is a video of Ogg's ditching on youtube.

My retired friend goes on to hypothesize that USAir is now wrestling with what to do with Sully once the attention dies down, then recalls a former firebomber operator he'd flown for, after one of his other pilots left the bar, without his co-pilot, and bombed a motel fire at night near the Grand Canyon tanker base, who said, "So we're heroes again. What's it going to cost us this time?"

I recall an accidental water landing in the Gulf of Mexico in '76 or '77. I'm sketchy on the details, but I think the plane was destined for one of the Florida panhandle airports and for some reason it smoothly descended to the water. Passengers commented that the landing was so smooth that they weren't certain they were in the water until their feet started getting wet.

In the JAL incident, the airplane was landed gear down nearly on shore, the engines never got in the water. It was more like water assisted braking, in very shallow water.

If memory serves, a false glide slope was believed to be a contributor??

Everyone waded ashore. I've seen pictures somewhere.

MTV

Re: Ernie Gann - Quoted from "Fate is the Hunter"

skagwaypilot said:

I was re-reading one of my favorite books when I came across some words which have a special meaning when considering recent events and how the press reports them. The following quote is from "Fate is the Hunter" by Ernest K. Gann - He begins Chapter 15 with the following sentence:

To suggest, even by inference, that captains should be given sole credit for moving a multi-engined airplane from one place to another would be the ultimate in strutting dishonesty. Each man in the crew has his manifold duties, and unless he performs them well, the captain is sorely tried

Click to expand...

I watched Sully as he attempted numerous time to redirect the attention of the press to the other members of his crew - but, they wanted a hero. I am not diminishing the superb leadership he demonstrated. But I do hope that when the final chapter is written on this saga, the accomplishments of the entire crew plus those myriad of New Yorkers who responded with unbelievable speed and skill will be included with appropriate emphasis.
There are many heroes to be recognized.

Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY !!!!!

Grizzly 1

Have a neighbor who served in the air force in North Africa. He showed me some old photos of a successful ditching of a C-47 in the Mediterranean. Really neat pics--wish I knew how to post. Is a series of photos with the last one showing crew in a life boat with only the tail of the plane ---much like the Titanic. Anyone know of this event ?????

A report of the JAL incident:

Title: Accidental ditching, Japan Airlines Co., Ltd., DC-8-62, JA8032, San Francisco Bay, San Francisco, California, November 22, 1968
Micro summary: This Douglas DC-8-62 accidentally landed in San Francisco Bay 2.5 miles from the airport.

Event Time: 1968-11-22 at 1654 UTC
File Name: 1968-11-22-US.pdf
Publishing Agency: National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)
Publishing Country: USA
Report number: A-0002
Pages: 32
Site of event: 2.5 miles from the end of runway 28L, SFO

Departure: Tokyo International Airport (Haneda), Tokyo, Japan
Destination: San Francisco International Airport, San Francisco, California, USA
Airplane Type(s): Douglas DC-8-62
Flight Phase: Approach
Registration(s): JA8032
Operator(s): Japan Airlines
Type of flight: Revenue
Occupants: 107
Fatalities: 0
Serious Injuries: 0
Minor/Non-Injured: 107
Other Injuries: 0

Executive Summary: Japan Air Lines, Douglas DC-8-62, JA8032, made an unintentional water landing in San Francisco Bay while operating as Flight 2, departed Tokyo International Airport at 0836Z (1736 Tokyo Time) on November 22, 1968, with 96 passengers, including six infants and a crew of a11 for a nonstop Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flight to the San Francisco International Airport, San Francisco, California.

The flight arrived in the San Francisco area at 1654Z (0854 Pacific standard time) after a routine flight. Normal communications were established, and the crew was radar vectored to the Woodside VHF Omnidirectional Range (VOR) and thence to intercept the Instrument Landing System (ILS) for Runway 28L at the San Francisco International Airport.

The flight crossed the Woodside VOR at 1716Z at approximately 4,000 feet and, at 1718:30Z, was cleared to descend to 2,000 feet. The flight descended in a constant, uninterrupted rate of descent from this time until about 6 seconds before water imapct at 1724:25Z. The aircraft was on the localizer and contacted the water about 2.5 miles from the end of Runway 28L.

There were no injuries to any of the passengers or crew during the accident and ensuing evacuation. The aircraft was recovered from the waters of San Francisco Bay about 55 hours after the accident.

The Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the improper application of the prescribed procedures to execute an automatic-coupled ILS approach. This deviation from the prescribed procedures was, in part, due to a lack of familiarization and infrequent operation of the installed flight director and autopilot system.


Learning Keywords: Operations - Crew Resource Management
Operations - Controlled Flight Into Terrain
Operations - Ditching/Water Evacuation
Operations - Evacuation
Operations - Training Deficiency
Operations - Unstabilized Approach
Systems - Automation Design

MTV

Double post.

I was a new hire DC-8 F/O with Seaboard World Airlines then...living right next door in Millbrae. We heard about the crash on the news and raced down to Coyote Point. From our vantage the plane sat in less than 10' of water about 1 mile from shore. Lots of rafts in the water and small boats all around.

If I remember correctly, this was a classic case of the A/P capturing a false glideslope from above...and a clueless JAL crew along for the ride!

After moving the plane to a United Airlines hangar at SFO (main maint. base for UAL) it eventually flew again about a year later. I can only imagine the corrosion and electrical issues that must have plagued that bird later on.

If I run across any pictures I will post them.

Lou

looks like in this picture the engines did get a little wet....

http://www.dc-8jet.com/Images/jal-dc862-in-sf-bay1.jpg

MTV

Thanks for the additional info on that DC-8. I failed to include my friend's comments about possibly using gear and flaps down for a ditching. I had assumed the DC-8 went into the water with the gear and flaps up.

I have seen some of those photos of the C-47 ditched in the Med. If I had to choose an airplane to put in the water, a DC-3 would be one of my top choices. In my experience, the DC-3 just doesn't have any nasty tricks except for its ability to roll over on its back when stalled due to improper flying technique.

I read Fate is the hunter about every five years or so, I never get tired of it. My copy is getting a little dog eared.