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garyh
02-02-2009, 08:10 PM
Anyone using the AeroLED landing or taxi lites with wig-wag?
if so tell me what your take is on these pricey lites.
www.AeroLEDs.com

gbflyer
02-02-2009, 09:05 PM
$500 to replace a $12 GE4509? :o

Not me, but I'm cheap.

gb

Oliver
12-14-2015, 03:52 PM
Interesting read about LED's:

sorry if it's already been posted

http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AVWebInsider_FAACounterSafety_203196-1.html

Oliver
12-14-2015, 03:56 PM
That said,
whats the latest and greatest (and cheapest) in LED landing and taxi lites?

edit: just noticed I posted in the experimental section, looking for certified.

WindOnHisNose
12-14-2015, 04:22 PM
I got a good deal, thanks to Gary Drean at the closing moments of the Great AK Aviation Gathering, from AeroLED. The lights are really bright and can be seen from a considerable distance. I am not sure I would have paid full price, but I can say that they are pretty awesome.

Randy

wireweinie
12-14-2015, 04:22 PM
That said,
whats the latest and greatest (and cheapest) in LED landing and taxi lites?

edit: just noticed I posted in the experimental section, looking for certified.

Read CAR 3. If your light meets the requirements, then install it. There is no approval for light bulbs.

As to the cost. Whatever you pay for the LED, above and beyond the price of an incandescent, will be made up for in savings on labor. LED's basically don't burn out. You install it correctly and it will last for years.

Web

OLDCROWE
12-14-2015, 05:13 PM
We put AERO LED's with one flasher http://aeroleds.com/shop/category/faa-certified-landing-lights/ on my super cub rebuild. Great for landing at night, great for recognition. Only disappointment is they are a bit noisy through the intercom on flash... AERO sent Steve some filter thingy that he installed but it didn't do much, still working on the noise...

Jimscub
12-14-2015, 05:16 PM
I brought a 4509 to an auto parts store matched it with an led ,bought two and installed them.They are way brighter than the 4509s and work great. Easy on the battery too as I still have the old generator in my scub. For the wigwag set up I think you'd need to install a resistor in line to prevent it from hyper flashing. not sure though. I know there not "approved" but like someone said "its easier to ask forgiveness ". It's just a light bulb for xxxx sake!

stewartb
12-14-2015, 05:21 PM
Whelens are the least expensive airplane ones and it seems they have their PMA straightened out so no issue with approval. These lights have specific polarity so make sure you get the positive and negative hooked up right or they'll get twice as expensive. :-)

If you want cool factor just add a couple of these. http://www.aveoengineering.com/vega-tl-tlr/

wireweinie
12-14-2015, 06:00 PM
That's a good point about polarity. The 'D' in LED stands for diode (as in light emitting diode). Diodes are always polarity sensitive. Hook them up backwards and they just plain don't work right. In the case of the LED lights, if you hook the wires up in reverse polarity, they simply won't light up. The good thing is they won't burn out if you do. I've had to troubleshoot several cases of this and the fix is to just switch the wires back to the correct polarity. There will be a '+' sign or 'pos' next to the hot terminal and a '-' or 'neg' next to the ground.

Web

skywagon8a
12-15-2015, 07:30 AM
I bought two LEDs here for my Cub for about $30 each. I don't recall seeing a polarity designation but they work great and are bright. https://www.superbrightleds.com/ The lights are an exact size exchange for the 4509. I only use them for recognition so can't comment on their night use. I had one which had some of the LEDs fail and they replaced it no questions asked.

The LEDs require a special flasher because of the low current draw. A flasher for a regular bulb will not work. I used this: http://kestrobes.com/beacon.htm#LL1 model WW $45 at the bottom of the page.

My electric system only operates from a battery with no alternator/generator. There are three electric instruments, a GPS and two landing lights on the wig-wag for a system draw of 2-1/2 amps. With the lights on steady the system draw is 3-1/2 amps.

A representative from Whelen gave a talk at an IA meeting showing their products. He threw the landing light all over the room dropping it on the floor with no damage. That is an impressive unit.

algonquin
12-15-2015, 08:25 AM
Would you post the bulb # that you used, thanks Tom

skywagon8a
12-15-2015, 08:37 AM
Would you post the bulb # that you used, thanks Tom
Superbright # AR111-CW9W

Cub Builder
12-15-2015, 10:13 AM
The ones I installed (AR111-CW9W-30 Cool White from SuperBrightleds.com) didn't have a polarity marking and work regardless of the polarity of the wiring. I can only assume they have an onboard circuit that addresses the polarity for the LEDs. They cost ~$20 ea when I bought them a couple of years ago. Today they are listed at $15. Drop in replacement for the standard old GE landing light in most planes. The spec sheet (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-bi-pin/9-watt-ar111-bulb-gx53-base-30-degree-white/459/#/tab/Specifications) says they are not polarity sensitive.

-Cub Builder

Oliver
12-15-2015, 10:19 AM
I've got 1 wire running to my taxi/lnding lite cluster (original setup) Connected to "landing lite" switch.
Thinking I could I set up a different switch and flash relay via same wire and have a flashing option for daytime use, no?

sjohnson
12-15-2015, 11:26 AM
If I were experimental, I'd consider the AR111 lights. Since I'm certified, I installed the AeroLeds taxi and landing lights, with pulse, and like them. Because of the lower current draw (8-9 amps combined), I can run both lights at the same time, and was able to repurpose the taxi light switch to be pulse.

Be aware that there is a big difference in light output between the AR111 and Aeroleds: 600 lumens v. 1500+, and a corresponding difference in current draw. The AeroLeds bulbs also have lenses to create the appropriate beam. Below is a picture of both taxi and landing lights on at once. It's not very good pic, but you can see the effect of the lenses on the beam shape.
http://www.supercub.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23222&stc=1

sjohnson
12-15-2015, 11:41 AM
On the AeroLeds noise problem: consider using twisted pair instead of the frame for the return current. Bring the ground wires all the way to under the panel to a central ground point. Do not connect the return wire to the frame out by the lights - you want just one return path.

Some have advocated using shielded wire, but I'm not a fan of shields unless there is no other way: shields tend to break down and won't stay terminated. Using a single conductor, shielded wire and using the shield for the return current doesn't seem to work well in practice, either.

All that said, it's kinda hard to run twisted pair if your wing is already closed up.

skywagon8a
12-15-2015, 01:48 PM
...Thinking I could I set up a different switch and flash relay via same wire and have a flashing option for daytime use, no?
YES. The flasher (post #11) which I used alternates the two lights as opposed to both flashing at once.

hotrod180
12-15-2015, 01:58 PM
A guy I know installed this LED https://store.marinebeam.com/4-1-2-sealed-beam-replacement-led-spreader-lamp-bulb/
and this flasher https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2015Individual/Cat15612.pdf (lower left corner)
Total cost of about a c-note, works great.

Oliver
12-15-2015, 02:12 PM
YES. The flasher (post #11) which I used alternates the two lights as opposed to both flashing at once.

I have only one wire available feeding both lites, don't mind if they both flash together though.

Oliver
12-15-2015, 02:16 PM
A guy I know installed this LED https://store.marinebeam.com/4-1-2-sealed-beam-replacement-led-spreader-lamp-bulb/
and this flasher https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2015Individual/Cat15612.pdf (lower left corner)
Total cost of about a c-note, works great.

checked out the flasher from spruce,
I know a guy who might try the same thing...

thanks,

cruiser
12-15-2015, 02:42 PM
Vision X Optimus lights with a Max Pulse controller. Max Pulse is PMA'd and STC'd. Minor alteration on the lights. 0.8 amps per light. The airplane was recovered with no lights in the wings. This seemed a good option.

wireweinie
12-15-2015, 03:19 PM
I've got 1 wire running to my taxi/lnding lite cluster (original setup) Connected to "landing lite" switch.
Thinking I could I set up a different switch and flash relay via same wire and have a flashing option for daytime use, no?

You might want to double check that. The original wiring was a separate wire to each lamp and a separate toggle switch and breaker to each. If you only have a single switch now, you might get lucky and find that both wires were hooked to the same switch. If that's the case you can hook up the wires to a wig-wag controller and have full control. If you do have only one wire, you can still hook it up to a flash or wig-wag, but all you'll get is both on or both flashing.

Web

wireweinie
12-15-2015, 03:45 PM
Flashers:

There are two general kinds of flashers or wig-wag controllers. The old school mechanical (bi metal) and the newer electronic types. The mechanical style uses the current flow to produce heat on a small metal strip that makes up one contact of the internal 'switch'. When the current flows through this strip and out to the circuit, it creates heat. When the metal strip gets hot it pulls away from the other contact and opens the path for current flow. With no current flow the circuit shuts off and the strip cools. When it cools, it snaps back to the other contact and it all starts again. Remember the sound of the blinkers in an old car? That's what makes that sound.

The new,electronic types use a small circuit who's only job is to turn 'on' and 'off' at a set rate. As long as there is power to the timer circuit, it will run.

Both systems can be used to power a light or, say, a relay arrangement such as a wig-wag controller. The advantage of the mechanical is it's simplicity and low cost. The disadvantage is that it needs a specific current flow to operate. To low and it won't switch on/off. To much and it switches very rapidly until failure. The advantage of the electronic type is that it works no matter what the current flow to the circuit is. It's biggest disadvantage is it's higher cost.

All in all, if you stay with the newer, electronic styles, life is made much easier.

Web

wireweinie
12-15-2015, 03:46 PM
And there is no 'approval' for light bulbs. Show me the 'approval' for any GE light bulb on an old airplane.

Web

Oliver
12-15-2015, 07:30 PM
Thanks for the info Web,
just finished recovering left wing last week, I ran only one wire to the landing lite as that was how it was wired before,
one wire, one breaker, one switch, two lites
doh!:bang

don't mind both flashing together though.
for comparison sake, how many lumens does a GE 4509 put out? Can't find any data stating lumens.

wireweinie
12-15-2015, 07:48 PM
The listings I'm finding show the GE 4509 putting out 110000 candle power. Take the candle power (110000) times 12.57 to convert to lumens. This works out to 1,382,700 lumens. Hope that helps.

Web

kestrel
12-15-2015, 08:07 PM
I believe the conversion is wrong g because it assumes a much wider beam than a 4509 has.

wireweinie
12-15-2015, 08:11 PM
The equation does not take beam width into consideration. Only intensity of the light.

Web

Oliver
12-15-2015, 08:17 PM
The listings I'm finding show the GE 4509 putting out 110000 candle power. Take the candle power (110000) times 12.57 to convert to lumens. This works out to 1,382,700 lumens. Hope that helps.

Web

aeroled Sunspot lamp is rated at 24,000 lumens - 1500 lumens per led (X 16)
i would assume GE's to be considerably less, unless incandessant vs led measured different system.?

kestrel
12-15-2015, 08:36 PM
The equation does not take beam width into consideration. Only intensity of the light.

12.57 = 4*pi ...there are 12.57 steridians in a sphere.

kestrel
12-15-2015, 08:43 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)



The lumen is defined in relation to the candela (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candela) as1 lm = 1 cd (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candela)⋅sr (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steradian).A full sphere has a solid angle (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle) of 4π steradians (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steradian),[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)#cite_note-1) so a light source that uniformly radiates one candela (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candela) in all directions has a total luminous flux of 1 cd 4π sr = 4π cd⋅sr ≈ 12.57 lumens

Oliver
12-15-2015, 09:26 PM
So... 6000 lumen 60 Deg beam led brighter than GE 4509?
You lost at the "lumenous flux" part..

What im getting at is:
one could buy a direct replacement led spot (30 Deg)and flood (60 Deg) for $20 ea - 6000+ lumen ea (non PMA'd)
OR blow $800 on a pair of Aeroleds -15000 lumen ea (PMA'd )

basically, I'm looking for the ability to run daytime recognition lights that can pulse without burning out, with the ability to land at nite in a pinch.
i don't care if they flash independently because there mounted 4" apart, don't think the effect would be that dramatic if they did anyway.

if the non PMA'd are brighter than the GE's then it should be a no brainer.
provided mi IA agrees with my train of thought...

sjohnson
12-15-2015, 10:50 PM
The listings I'm finding show the GE 4509 putting out 110000 candle power. Take the candle power (110000) times 12.57 to convert to lumens. This works out to 1,382,700 lumens. Hope that helps.
Web
This conversion will only work if both sources have a uniform, spherical output.

Output in candela is usually specified at the center of the beam. The AeroLeds landing light is rated at 50,000+ candela. The taxi light is 15,000+ candela. Same output power, but the landing light has a narrower beam. The AeroLeds landing light has a broader beam than the GE4509, but both have about the same light output at 1500 lumens. See http://aeroleds.com/resources/


aeroled Sunspot lamp is rated at 24,000 lumens - 1500 lumens per led (X 16)
No, the total output of the AeroLeds HX (http://aeroleds.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Datasheet_01-1030-H_Sunspot-36HX_14_05_30.pdf) is 1500+ lumens.


if the non PMA'd are brighter than the GE's then it should be a no brainer.The non-PMA lights from Superbright quoted above have an output of 600 lumens, v. 1500 lumens for a GE4509.

Oliver
12-15-2015, 11:50 PM
The non-PMA lights from Superbright quoted above have an output of 600 lumens, v. 1500 lumens for a GE4509.
[/QUOTE]

k, thanks for the clarification, think you brought this up earlier in the thread.
takes me awhile sometimes...

skywagon8a
12-16-2015, 06:16 AM
Lumens & Candlepower, great information on how to calculate. All nice to know but one of those things that my brain has difficulty understanding. To me the light is bright or dim and it either has distance penetration or not. Frankly my impression of the 4509 is that it is only good enough to keep you out of the trees when landing at night and helps when taxing. If you want a good landing light you need to get an immensely larger/higher powered bulb like those on airliners. When I tested the Superbright with the battery of my pickup, it lit up a very large area as bright as daylight. The distance penetration wasn't quite as good as the 4509, but it was good enough for my primary purpose of recognition/collision avoidance. And it is certainly good enough for occasional night landing use. By the way the 4509s in my 40 year old 185 are still the originals, your mileage may differ.

OLDCROWE
12-16-2015, 06:40 AM
Lumens & Candlepower, great information on how to calculate. All nice to know but one of those things that my brain has difficulty understanding. To me the light is bright or dim and it either has distance penetration or not. Frankly my impression of the 4509 is that it is only good enough to keep you out of the trees when landing at night and helps when taxing. If you want a good landing light you need to get an immensely larger/higher powered bulb like those on airliners. When I tested the Superbright with the battery of my pickup, it lit up a very large area as bright as daylight. The distance penetration wasn't quite as good as the 4509, but it was good enough for my primary purpose of recognition/collision avoidance. And it is certainly good enough for occasional night landing use. By the way the 4509s in my 40 year old 185 are still the originals, your mileage may differ.I also put the Aero LED's in my 180 and being based on an airport that used the dust from a black hole (so you can't see anything at night and it's guaranteed to float you forever and ever on a hot day) mixed with Kryptonite (so it eats all forms of aircraft tires, especially bush wheels) for the last runway seal coat job I fully understand needing lights that penetrate and illuminate. With the 4509 it was deffinately landing by feel, now I can easily see well down the runway. Try em you won't be sorry.

sjohnson
12-16-2015, 10:45 AM
Reading all this reminded me why I put in the Aeroleds: mostly for daylight collision avoidance

My last set of GE4509s lasted for years - I just don't fly at night that often and there's not much vibration way out on the wing. I didn't use the GE4509s for collision avoidance because a) limited life, b) I would need an extra flasher, and c) I couldn't run both bulbs at once due to current draw on my small alternator.

Both AeroLeds bulbs pulse together, the flasher is built-in (although you need a small external circuit mounted at the bulb to get them to flash together). Pulsing both bulbs gives a broad relatively low intensity beam from the landing light that is viewable off-axis, and a relatively high intensity beam straight ahead.

For daylight collision avoidance, you need a pretty bright output, which would eliminate some of the cheaper LED bulbs. If I were experimental and pre-cover, I'd consider some of the really bright non-PMA solutions from AeroLeds and others. They're cheaper, brighter, and not limited to the GE4509 form factor.

Anyway, ymmv.

stewartb
12-16-2015, 11:25 AM
I have no advice on what to use or not to use but you guys who want to install your own lights and flashers in certificated planes owe your mechanic the courtesy of letting him know what you're doing. If the FAA takes exception to the installation he may be the one they go after.

wireweinie
12-16-2015, 02:25 PM
The light intensity argument will go on until the end of time. And I just use the equations that some twisted engineer swears by. In reality there is almost no measurement that will take the place of actually looking at the light, at night, to help you decide if it will work for you. I have some customers that hate LED light and others that swear by it. One thing to remember is that the light produced by a white LED will look different than the light produced by a white incandescent. To me it has a slight bluish tinge to it. So find a light that you think you might like and hook it up to a battery. See how much light it produces and the 'shade' of light. If you don't like it, find another.

If you install an LED lamp in place of an incandescent lamp, in a non part 23 aircraft, sign it off as a minor in the log book. As long as you have the correct wire size and a breaker to protect it, it meets the requirements of FAR 43 as a minor alteration.

Web

OLDCROWE
12-16-2015, 02:52 PM
The light intensity argument will go on until the end of time. And I just use the equations that some twisted engineer swears by. In reality there is almost no measurement that will take the place of actually looking at the light, at night, to help you decide if it will work for you. I have some customers that hate LED light and others that swear by it. One thing to remember is that the light produced by a white LED will look different than the light produced by a white incandescent. To me it has a slight bluish tinge to it. So find a light that you think you might like and hook it up to a battery. See how much light it produces and the 'shade' of light. If you don't like it, find another.

If you install an LED lamp in place of an incandescent lamp, in a non part 23 aircraft, sign it off as a minor in the log book. As long as you have the correct wire size and a breaker to protect it, it meets the requirements of FAR 43 as a minor alteration.

Web
The bluish tint with LED's happens when the light generated gets much above 5000 degrees Kelvin. At 3500-4500 and you'll pretty much have a white light, below 3000 and it's more yellowish and does not illuminate as well. Many of the high output LED car headlights lights are pushing 6500 degrees Kelvin and while you can see things a long way out there but they don't look normal...

Those temps are from memory, just how bright your bulb shines is out of my control...

Eddie Foy
12-16-2015, 05:05 PM
I am rewiring my Cub. Today I noticed that the wires going to the landing/lights are 8 ga. They are on a 10A breaker. Why? Voltage drop?

What is the current draw on the 4509s?

stewartb
12-16-2015, 05:39 PM
100w/12v=8.33a

wireweinie
12-16-2015, 07:55 PM
I am rewiring my Cub. Today I noticed that the wires going to the landing/lights are 8 ga. They are on a 10A breaker. Why? Voltage drop?

What is the current draw on the 4509s?

The original military wiring was major overkill as to the wire size. Use the wire tables in the AC43.13 for replacement wire and you won't go wrong.

Web

Eddie Foy
12-16-2015, 08:48 PM
The original military wiring was major overkill as to the wire size. Use the wire tables in the AC43.13 for replacement wire and you won't go wrong.

Web
That is what I am doing with a 25% overkill. AC43.13 says you can use a #16 at 150C. I will use #12 which is good for 19A.

Eddie Foy
12-16-2015, 09:01 PM
Reading all this reminded me why I put in the Aeroleds: mostly for daylight collision avoidance

My last set of GE4509s lasted for years - I just don't fly at night that often and there's not much vibration way out on the wing. I didn't use the GE4509s for collision avoidance because a) limited life, b) I would need an extra flasher, and c) I couldn't run both bulbs at once due to current draw on my small alternator.

Both AeroLeds bulbs pulse together, the flasher is built-in (although you need a small external circuit mounted at the bulb to get them to flash together). Pulsing both bulbs gives a broad relatively low intensity beam from the landing light that is viewable off-axis, and a relatively high intensity beam straight ahead.

For daylight collision avoidance, you need a pretty bright output, which would eliminate some of the cheaper LED bulbs. If I were experimental and pre-cover, I'd consider some of the really bright non-PMA solutions from AeroLeds and others. They're cheaper, brighter, and not limited to the GE4509 form factor.

Anyway, ymmv.

IMHO, the two lights in the leading edge of the left wing are only going to make you more visible to a potential collison A/C that is within 45 degrees of your nose. Most collisions dont occur from a head on aspect.

YMMV

wireweinie
12-16-2015, 09:14 PM
That is what I am doing with a 25% overkill. AC43.13 says you can use a #16 at 150C. I will use #12 which is good for 19A.

You're wasting your time. The reason that those tables (one for continuous current flow, one for intermittent) is so you can use the smallest wire for a circuit. This isn't a car. Bigger is not better. Bigger wire means more weight. Also, you are, in effect, engineering out the whole reason for the tables in the first place. Take 20 feet of 16 gauge mil spec wire and weigh it against 20 feet of 12 gauge. That will give you an idea of the weight difference for just this circuit. Now take that idea, times each circuit in your aircraft. If you went for the overkill for each circuit you could add a couple of pounds, just in wire, above what you'd have if you stuck with the charts.

Web

Eddie Foy
12-16-2015, 09:32 PM
So you would use the #16 wire? I waste a lot of time. I have a bunch of it.

wireweinie
12-16-2015, 09:47 PM
Use the continuous chart. Find out the total current flow for your lights, at 14 volts. Watts equals volts times amps. So a 100 watt light, divided by 14 volts, will draw 7.14 amps. If you round that to 7 amps you can use 16 gauge wire as long as you keep that wire to 15 feet or less. Now if you want to run two, 100 watt lights off one wire (approx. 15 amps), at the same 15 feet, you will need to use 12 gauge. Either way chose the correct breaker for protection. Protect the wire, not the component.

Web

skywagon8a
12-17-2015, 06:03 AM
Web, Aren't landing lights considered to be intermittent use? Or is that just for calculating total current draw from a generator/alternator?

wireweinie
12-17-2015, 09:53 AM
Web, Aren't landing lights considered to be intermittent use? Or is that just for calculating total current draw from a generator/alternator?

'Intermittent' refers to time on vs time off. Best example is the starter circuit. You only engage it for a few seconds any time the aircraft is operated.

Web

skywagon8a
12-17-2015, 10:04 AM
I was thinking of the old reg for calculating the generator capacity. Total continuous system draw should not exceed 80% of generator capacity. I believe that landing lights were considered intermittent for this purpose. That should not apply to Eddie's question of wire size.

wireweinie
12-17-2015, 10:35 AM
Correct. Different calculation. The intermittent chart deals strictly with the current flow allowed in a single conductor/single circuit.

Never understood that whole 80% of capacity requirement. Lots of older aircraft are placarded to allow certain high current circuits to be used only with others shut off. They always add up to more than 80% and are 'legal'.

Web

skywagon8a
12-17-2015, 10:40 AM
I think that the placard was to inform the pilot in order for him/her not to exceed the rated capacity. And the 80% rule was for when there was no placarded information leaving a 20% margin of error.

Chicken Hawk
12-17-2015, 09:13 PM
Mcsmike should develope an aviation wire sizing app!

I have an automotive & marine wire sizing app, but wire size calculates out bigger than what AC43.13 wants.

http://Dirtydogsoftware.com/dc-wire-sizer/

wireweinie
12-17-2015, 09:31 PM
Mcsmike should develope an aviation wire sizing app!

I have an automotive & marine wire sizing app, but wire size calculates out bigger than what AC43.13 wants.

http://Dirtydogsoftware.com/dc-wire-sizer/

If you use the AC 43.13 tables for an automotive, marine, etc, project, be sure to use aviation mil spec wire. That's part of the calculations, as the insulation for aircraft use tends to melt at a higher temp and doesn't maintain a flame.

Web

Chicken Hawk
12-17-2015, 10:02 PM
If you use the AC 43.13 tables for an automotive, marine, etc, project, be sure to use aviation mil spec wire. That's part of the calculations, as the insulation for aircraft use tends to melt at a higher temp and doesn't maintain a flame.

Web

So the tinned copper conductor used in mil spec wire must contribute to better performance justifying the smaller gauge 43.13 tables reflects? & the high temp PTFE insulation limits smoke & flame spread.

My next wiring project will have mil spec wire......:up

Thanks Web!

Oliver
12-19-2015, 06:17 PM
Heres a solution to add a Pulse/day recognition feature to a one wire system - on a budget.

Landing Light - Whelan Paramethius Plus Lndg lite $260.00 (PMA'd)
Taxi Light - Superbright flood $16.00
Pulse relay - Superbright $15.00
Toggle - West Marine (same mfg as Univair) $20.00


Coffee table schematic:

http://www.supercub.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=23294&stc=1

wireweinie
12-19-2015, 06:47 PM
Change the switch to one, single pole, double throw, switch, with a center 'off' position. I.e., 'up' is flasher and 'down' is land/taxi lights. That way, you can use one breaker and one switch to operate that circuit.

Web

OLDCROWE
12-19-2015, 07:39 PM
Change the switch to one, single pole, double throw, switch, with a center 'off' position. I.e., 'up' is flasher and 'down' is land/taxi lights. That way, you can use one breaker and one switch to operate that circuit.

WebIt works well!

hotrod180
12-20-2015, 11:35 PM
Heres a solution to add a Pulse/day recognition feature to a one wire system - on a budget.
Landing Light - Whelan Paramethius Plus Lndg lite $260.00 (PMA'd)
Taxi Light - Superbright flood $16.00 ........

Why not a $16 superbright for the landing light also?
Do they make a narrower beam / farther throw version?

hotrod180
12-20-2015, 11:43 PM
IMHO, the two lights in the leading edge of the left wing are only going to make you more visible to a potential collison A/C that is within 45 degrees of your nose. Most collisions dont occur from a head on aspect.

Agreed, but the head-on situation is usually a bit more urgent.
Imagine a 150 mph airplane overtaking a 90 mph airplane-- the closure rate is 60 mph or a mile a minute. If you see the airplane you're overtaking a half-mile away, you have 30 seconds to react. No problem.
Now, the same two airplanes converging head-on-- the closure rate is 240 mph or 4 miles a minute. If you see the other plane a half-mile away, you have only 7-1/2 seconds to react. That's cutting her pretty close.

skywagon8a
12-21-2015, 06:13 AM
How about something like this? One on top and another on the bottom. The feet can be removed so that it can be mounted close to the skin. $200 from https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/strobe-beacons/emergency-led-light-bar-360-degree-strobing-amber-led-mini-lightbar/2059/
https://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.net/timthumb.php?h=230&q=90&src=https://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.net/images/uploads/mini-360-led-emergency-light-bar-profile-1.jpg&v=1&w=300&zc=2

stewartb
12-21-2015, 06:47 AM
The Vega TLR gives you landing and taxi lighting in the same housing. Wig wag, too. Smaller and more streamlined than any forward facing light I've seen. Gotta love what you can do with experimentals.

https://m.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/landinglights_aveo/aveovegaunderwing.php

Oliver
12-21-2015, 11:32 AM
How about something like this? One on top and another on the bottom. The feet can be removed so that it can be mounted close to the skin. $200 from https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/strobe-beacons/emergency-led-light-bar-360-degree-strobing-amber-led-mini-lightbar/2059/
https://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.net/timthumb.php?h=230&q=90&src=https://d114hh0cykhyb0.cloudfront.net/images/uploads/mini-360-led-emergency-light-bar-profile-1.jpg&v=1&w=300&zc=2

K, that's getting a little redneck..

Oliver
12-21-2015, 11:46 AM
IMHO, the two lights in the leading edge of the left wing are only going to make you more visible to a potential collison A/C that is within 45 degrees of your nose. Most collisions dont occur from a head on aspect.

YMMV

From experience, strobe LED landing lites really improve plane recognition flying in big canyons and busy off airport strips, landing, taxiing etc.. (think JC Idaho)
where erroneous position reports are common.

gdafoe
12-21-2015, 01:04 PM
The Vega TLR gives you landing and taxi lighting in the same housing. Wig wag, too. Smaller and more streamlined than any forward facing light I've seen. Gotta love what you can do with experimentals.

https://m.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/landinglights_aveo/aveovegaunderwing.php

I have their wing tip lights and really like them.. I had not noticed these before. Have any of you used these yet or seen how visible they are for recognition lights? They would be a lot easier to install on my new wings than any of the other solutions. Mounted under the wing it seems like they would be glaring into the cockpit. Unless they are very directed they would have to have a shield of some sort it seems.

CamTom12
12-21-2015, 03:15 PM
I need some taxi lights (my landing lights are mostly useless in 3-pt) and really liked those aveos...

...until I saw the price!

stewartb
12-21-2015, 04:53 PM
I have their wing tip lights and really like them.. I had not noticed these before. Have any of you used these yet or seen how visible they are for recognition lights? They would be a lot easier to install on my new wings than any of the other solutions. Mounted under the wing it seems like they would be glaring into the cockpit. Unless they are very directed they would have to have a shield of some sort it seems.

I have not seen any installed but I'll be using a couple when that time comes in a couple of months. Aveo has some graghs showing light distribution on the link I provided. I'm less worried about light intensity than angles of view for daytime recognition. Using both taxi and landing fuctions simultaneously in wig wag makes these lights very attractive for my needs.

55-PA18A
12-22-2015, 07:25 PM
I saw this past year's Airman's Show Raffle Cub at the Anchorage airport last spring and noticed landing/taxi lights in the leading edge of both wings. Anyone know the story on that ? Were they wig/wag lights?

Several of the air taxi planes operating out of Dillingham have pulsing landing/taxi lights in each wing. They're very noticeable flying towards you.

Jim W

wireweinie
12-22-2015, 07:49 PM
Keep in mind what the lights look like at a distance, in the wig-wag mode. Up close, the two lights in the lead edge of a wing, flash very distinctly in the alternating mode. But at a distance your eyes can't tell when one flashes on and the other flashes off. It will just look like a flickering light. It is much more effective to alternately flash two lights spaced widely apart, such as one in each wing. If you have the stock Cub land/taxi lights, it's much better to flash both simultaneously. That way your eyes pick up a distinct 'on' and 'off'.

Web

stewartb
12-23-2015, 08:00 AM
I saw this past year's Airman's Show Raffle Cub at the Anchorage airport last spring and noticed landing/taxi lights in the leading edge of both wings. Anyone know the story on that ? Were they wig/wag lights?

Several of the air taxi planes operating out of Dillingham have pulsing landing/taxi lights in each wing. They're very noticeable flying towards you.

Jim W

Wingtip wig wag lights have become very common around Lake Hood. Some planes are upgraded with RMD wingtips, some add second leading edge light bays, and others utilize their original cowl light positions. Is there an important advantage of one over the other for daytime recognition? Not that I can see. Those of us with Skywagons and 206s with cowl lights usually flash the taxi and landing lights simultaneously. Dual wing light guys usually use alternate flashing. Both are recognizable from similar distances and both are very effective for the purpose of making yourself seen. A single wing light works equally well as the cowl lights. Any forward facing flashing light is better than a maintained light but a maintained light is better than no light. I appreciate well-lighted airplanes. It makes it easier for me to look for the unlighted ones.

LEDs have a clear advantage over incandescents when used with flashers for recognition lighting. The response time of the LEDs is crisp and the flash is improved over old technology bulbs. The low current draw makes the pulsing easy on your electrical system, too.

Yarddart
03-31-2016, 07:16 AM
Hanger next-door clipper wants to buy the cheapest LED lights what model and where does he get them

hotrod180
03-31-2016, 10:41 AM
https://store.marinebeam.com/4-1-2-par36-led-sealed-beam-replacement-bulb-sb-par/

"PAR 36" replacements for standard landing lights are $55 to $65 each, depending on wattage.

Bugs66
03-31-2016, 02:56 PM
https://store.marinebeam.com/4-1-2-par36-led-sealed-beam-replacement-bulb-sb-par/

"PAR 36" replacements for standard landing lights are $55 to $65 each, depending on wattage.

Seems a great deal! Will try a set. I am thinking 30* for landing and 60* for taxi.

aviationinfo
03-31-2016, 09:17 PM
What would be the thought with using these in certified airplanes? 4509s are commonly used in certified aircraft, which last I checked are not PMAd or TSOd. Would these simply be considered "standard" parts? I would definitely like to try these.

Den
05-09-2016, 12:45 AM
I bought two LEDs here for my Cub for about $30 each. I don't recall seeing a polarity designation but they work great and are bright. https://www.superbrightleds.com/ The lights are an exact size exchange for the 4509. I only use them for recognition so can't comment on their night use. I had one which had some of the LEDs fail and they replaced it no questions asked.

The LEDs require a special flasher because of the low current draw. A flasher for a regular bulb will not work. I used this: http://kestrobes.com/beacon.htm#LL1 model WW $45 at the bottom of the page.

My electric system only operates from a battery with no alternator/generator. There are three electric instruments, a GPS and two landing lights on the wig-wag for a system draw of 2-1/2 amps. With the lights on steady the system draw is 3-1/2 amps.

A representative from Whelen gave a talk at an IA meeting showing their products. He threw the landing light all over the room dropping it on the floor with no damage. That is an impressive unit.

There is a stack of Whelen Taxi/landing/recog lights 6 feet high in our parts room with green tags on them. I'll bet we change one a week. One or more banks of LEDs quit after they warm up. I think they are about $600 a light. They are potted and not serviceable. We just just send them back and get rebuilt ones.

I know a couple of guys running Rigid lights in their experiementals. They are BRIGHT!