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Bill Ingerson
12-18-2008, 09:19 PM
Tank sight gages, I remember alot of talk on this site about them in the past, but could not find much on it now. My cub came with 30 gallon Atlee tanks in the wings. They have electric fuel gages, that I don't trust. I would like a opinion as to what would be the best one's to buy.
I talked to Dakota Cubs about there high visibilityy gage. They said there is no red ball in it, that they could not find one that would work. They seem to have a aluminum housing around the sight glasss part and a clean out in the bottom so the glass can be cleaned. Two for $300. They did not know of it being leagel to use with the atlee dodge tanks.

I talked with Atlee Dodge and they sent me two gages for $90.00. What I got was two 1/2" pieces of plastic tubes bent on each end and two hose clamps. No protective housing around them.

Whats your opinion on this set up and what direction should I take ? I would like to have a float ball to see the level better. Any idea's ?

Thanks

Bill

sharp
12-18-2008, 09:38 PM
I have the Atlee tanks with the clear tubing.
I haven't ever had any problems 'seeing' the level. So I don't miss the red ball. It is nice to see the level all the way down to the turn into the wing root.

RedEye
12-18-2008, 09:38 PM
Atlee's gages are the best in your situation. Legal, simple, and they are easily seen. Give them a try, I don't think you'll be disappointed. My 2 cents.

FdxLou
12-18-2008, 09:51 PM
I would send them back...and buy my own 1/2" tubing...but then I am experimental and prone to being cheap at times like this.

I know this will probably upset the folks who spend lots of $$ getting STC approval. For that I apologize.

Lou

behindpropellers
12-18-2008, 10:15 PM
Bill-


I have the same thoughts as you about the electric gauges. They suck. I was going to pull mine out and put in sight gauges also, but decided I would go buy an EI fuel flow gauge instead. Once I got used to the electric gauges I could tell you within 15 minutes when it is going to die.

Tim

gdafoe
12-18-2008, 10:20 PM
FDX I'd go for that make your own . . . but what plastic tube do you buy that will make a nice 90* bend?

aktango58
12-18-2008, 10:31 PM
You might be opening a hornet's nest!

One plane I flew had an electric one on the left, Plastic tube on the right.

When the electric hit bottom, it got quiet; when the fuel was no longer visible I had a couple of miniutes...

If I ever questioned the guage, I would wiggle the wing and watch the needle move...

If you switch, I would go with the Atlee and call it good, simple, easy to fix and very easy to read. The fuel line will be easy to see!

gdafoe
12-18-2008, 10:42 PM
Don't mean to hijack this thead. I don't really like the "normal" sight gages as they hide too much fuel in my opinion. So have been looking for a better solution for my project.

Is this the stuff they use? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/pvcpipe.php

Clear PVC pipe. Bend it with heat I suppose. Anybody done this on their experimental?

Steve Pierce
12-18-2008, 10:54 PM
Gerald, I have the hose type that Aviat uses on the Husky at the hanger. I will post after I check my notes.

Bill Ingerson
12-19-2008, 01:13 AM
I Always get good information from you guys. I think after reading some of the comments, I will keep the Atlee dodge site gages. Hate to pay that much for them but I guess most of it is the STC. I have electric gages on each tank and I will leave them on as well. The plane also has a fuel flow meter so between all of this I should be able to keep a good eye on fuel levels.
I was somewhat worried that just a tubing sticking out of the panel would get snagged or damaged some how without a aluminum shield around it.

Bill

gdafoe
12-19-2008, 02:08 AM
Bill, if you get a chance would you measure the length of those? I'd like to see how they would match up with my SmithCub 24gal tank outlets. I guess I'd need center to center on the inlet and outlet, if you know what I mean.

DW
12-19-2008, 02:37 AM
Bill I bought a set of tubes from Atlee and put them on my cub-- but after using auto gas they turn yellow fast--- just a few tanks-- so I went back to the stock ones, but if you stay with avgas there great, just make sure the outlet on the bottom of the tank is level with the bottom of the tube, on mine it dipped down a little and when the tube showed about 1/2" of fuel I was out, luckily I found this out while draining the tank.


Gerald
They are very flexible and will fit almost any cub tank.

Dennis

5139Y
12-19-2008, 05:52 AM
i have atlee tanks in 39y, love and hate them. we just replaced the tubing as a preventative measure. i was told the newer tubing works with auto gas. a friend had one break, while on the ground luckily. Steve at atlee said it is legal to have the electrics removed, but we haven't done it yet. the bottom of the sight gage reads 1/4 tank and 5 gal left very close to each other. on the right tank the gage will still read 5 gal when empty. it takes some concentration to make sure you get to use the fuel without running out. dodge tanks are easy to run heavy because parked they are hard to judge. i always seem to be heavy on fuel which beats the alternative. tuff when you are working short. i fly by my watch to determine fuel usage and don't relay on the gages, they just keep me in the ball park. if i run the rh tank to 5 gal then switch to left i know there is 25 min of fuel in the right if i need it. you will need to ride the rudder to get it all. only do that at altitude though. flush caps suck! atlee has an approved conversion for the raised cap. have been thinking of putting a stock tank back in the left side, then modifying the left dodge with a window in the trailing edge and putting it in the project cub as an experimental

skywagon8a
12-19-2008, 07:34 AM
Float Balls ? This is somewhat related to the topic. I looked on the Piper drawing for the balls and found that they were 1/4" round cork colored red. Does any one know what the color consists of? What paint is safe to use in gasoline that will not come off? Is it paint, stain, food coloring???? I have a set of glass sight gages with my TCOW Cub that are well built, no balls, and don't know who built them.

Steve Pierce
12-19-2008, 07:41 AM
I have used Aerothane to coat corks and it worked well even with car gas.

DW, How long ago was your yellowing tube experience? I think Atlee issued a bulletin or something a few years ago about that and they changed the material. I slept too many times since then. :oops:

DW
12-19-2008, 11:43 AM
Steve I bought the tubes last year and Atlee's said they where the new tube that was not as prone to yellowing ---not so they yellowed bad . If they can solve that problem I'd go back to them.

Dennis

behindpropellers
12-19-2008, 12:06 PM
Steve I bought the tubes last year and Atlee's said they where the new tube that was not as prone to yellowing ---not so they yellowed bad . If they can solve that problem I'd go back to them.

Dennis

Dennis-

Was it tygon tubing?

Should look like this...commonly used on snowmachines and does not crack or harden with car gas.

Here is some info:

http://www.hoseline.net/hose/fgpvc.htm

http://www.hoseline.net/hose/image/fgtubing.gif

Bill Ingerson
12-19-2008, 12:20 PM
On the side of the tubing it reads: Tygothane C210 A mf 9 by Saint-Gobain. The tube measures 7" center to center after the bends. I would guess with the hose clamps the material used to make it, one would cost about $3.00 U.S. maybe as high as $5.00 if shipping was involved.

Bill

DW
12-19-2008, 12:24 PM
Tim
I don't know if it was tygon or not--- it was however the newer tube that Atlee uses and started yellowing within two tanks of auto gas, and continued to get worse with time so I changed them out---I would be interested in trying the tygon--what I like about the tube is--no leaks, easy to install, good viability, and light weight.

Dennis

tempdoug
12-19-2008, 12:39 PM
Bill, the big catch is putting those nice 90s in it by way of an oven. Youll burn up some time and hose getting that down to a science for one time. doug

DW
12-19-2008, 12:44 PM
I've seen guys just loop the tube from top to bottom in a C shape and it works just fine--- a little more sticking out to snag stuff on but not to bad.

Dennis

behindpropellers
12-19-2008, 12:53 PM
On the side of the tubing it reads: Tygothane C210 A mf 9 by Saint-Gobain. The tube measures 7" center to center after the bends. I would guess with the hose clamps the material used to make it, one would cost about $3.00 U.S. maybe as high as $5.00 if shipping was involved.

Bill



Tygothane® C-210-A Precision Polyurethane Tubing
Our rigidly controlled manufacturing process makes Tygothane® Precision Polyurethane Tubing the flexible polyurethane tubing that has consistently tight tolerances from lot to lot. Precision tolerances and high elasticity provide the user with an easy, worry-free attachment to fittings. Made of a tough, ester-based polyurethane, Tygothane® Precision Polyurethane Tubing's clarity, high tear strength and excellent abrasion resistance make it ideal for many applications, including fuel and lubricant lines, pneumatic lines, abrasive product transfer and cable jacketing. It also offers exceptional resistance to oils, greases, fuels and many chemicals.

Able to withstand rugged daily use, Tygothane® Precision Polyurethane Tubing resists weathering and can be safely used in temperatures ranging from -100°F (-73°C) to 200°F (93°C). It meets FDA criteria for food and beverage use and is also available in ether-based, medical grade and reinforced formulations.

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=ffa3a476e765440a953eaf2 db61e19d1

Steve Pierce
12-19-2008, 01:04 PM
This is what Aviat uses. Husky fuel gauges are made of Superthane Ether ¼” I.D. x ½” O.D.

They come in just lengths of hose. Not very expensive.

gdafoe
12-19-2008, 01:06 PM
I have a loop of Tycon tubing on there right now that I put on to see how it would work and so that I could test the fuel system for leaks. I have a set of Milled copies of what Piper used, but I don't really like the way it fits. You have to lay it on an angle to get it to fit then the bottom is 6 inches + - aft of the tank outlet.

Bill Ingerson
12-19-2008, 11:51 PM
Guess the next step is to pick up fittings for the Atlee 30 gallon tank. I would use 90 degree fittings top and bottom of the tank then car gas hose to the Atlee site glass fittings. Is brass okay to use or should I buy the blue AN fittings ?

Bill

Gordon Misch
12-20-2008, 01:13 AM
Bill if any water lingers at the bottom of the tank around the fitting, the surrounding aluminum will be sacrificial to the brass.

mike mcs repair
12-20-2008, 04:13 AM
....... I would use 90 degree fittings top and bottom of the tank then car gas hose to the Atlee site glass fittings. .....

Bill

????
not sure that would read correct......
your tanks does not have the fittings for the sight gauges in the right place? you mean coming of the outlets?

or was the 90 a typo?

gdafoe
12-20-2008, 08:33 AM
Steve, not very expensive and you can buy it at you favorite aircraft parts supplier. http://www.amazon.com/Superthane-Ester-Tubing-0-250-0-313/dp/B000FMWSNA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1229776684&sr=1-1

tempdoug
12-20-2008, 08:49 AM
Bill, on mine i found some aluminum nipples that got the fittings out a little, then see if you can get the sight gauge tubing made a little longer where it goes to the tank, measure from the wing root in to see what you need. Use a 9/16 grommet in the wing root holes for chaffing. use as few of hose clamps as possible, there places for cracks and leaks over the years. 3 years so far, no runs, no drips, no errors. I had to make things work a little around bird cage and wing rib though. mtcw doug

gdafoe
12-20-2008, 08:59 AM
Is that Tygothane C210 A mf 9 by Saint-Gobain hard or soft. I must be relatively hard to hold a 90* like it see in the picture. What I'm finding is soft. What I was trying to get away from is the loop on the inside of the wing root panel. Just tried to use a heat gun on the Tygon to see how sharp I could bend it with out a kink. Not real sharp. Bends fairly good (tight) cold w/o a kink, but would be looped out from the wing root panel a bit. Would like to see pictures, Doug if you have them.

tempdoug
12-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Id have to pull my wing root fairings off to get a picture, -25 here today so wont be anytime soon. sorry. Somehow it needs to be done in a oven for a certain amount of time at a certain temp. to hold the 90s nice without melting or kinking. I just measured center to center for my outlets and the length i wanted to go into them, for the way i wanted it set up and steve at atlees fixed me up. And when its done right the tubing lays real nice right against the wing root panel on the inside. 100 times better than those sight gauges. doug

gdafoe
12-20-2008, 12:31 PM
Well don't do that at -25. I guess I am spoiled :) . It's 46 here this morning and I whining about how cold it is in the hanger working on the project. I just put the finish coat of non glare on the panel and brought it in the house 'cause I thought it was too cold out there for the paint to cure

tempdoug
12-20-2008, 01:03 PM
Gerald, i honestly dont know why when atlees sends out ther gauge they dont leave and extra 4-5 inches on each end to go over to the tank. Like someone said before i doubt its $2 worth of tubing.

DW
12-20-2008, 02:29 PM
Doug I like that single clamp Idea--less is better-- the only thing I might ad would be to crimp the hose barb end on the tank fitting to allow less fuel threw for a more accurate reading--with it wide open the fuel moves threw so fast that every bump will bounce the fuel reading around.

Dennis

tempdoug
12-20-2008, 04:46 PM
Dennis, my 24 gallon Dakota tank has, im thinkin .050 or .060 hole drilled into the tank on the top and bottom fitting then the site gauge fittings were welded over them. Or the other way around. Holes are about the size of a toothpick. I like the idea of a restriction on both because if something would happen as far as a bad leak its like a restriction sortve like the engine oil pressure deal. Some just pound a rivet in one of the barbed fittings and drill it out. Remember this is on a dakota tank where its a threaded fittings. doug

tempdoug
12-20-2008, 04:55 PM
Or on piper tanks with atlees gauges ive seen a short piece of aluminum tubing with a rivet pounded in it and drilled out and pushed in the plastic tubing aways. Its amazing how small that restrictor hole can be and the fuel flow in the gauge dosent seem to be affected.

Bill Ingerson
12-20-2008, 09:35 PM
My tank has two tank fitting holes with plugs, so this is were aluminum fittings with hose ends should be screwed in place. Close to the bottom and close to the top. Then its a matter of getting from those fittings to the fittings on the Atlee Dodge site glass. The tubing is soft by the way. If your going to make one with bends. Try packing it with sand then heating it making bends and let it cool like that. Don't know if that will work but it sounded good anyway.

Bill