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flat wing tips

C

capav8

Registered User
Lee's Summit, MO
I am building an experimental wag project. I saw a super cub with the flat wing tips. What are they called and what kind of performance would I expect to achieve.


Jim
 
They're called endplates, and they will reduce induced drag at the expense of substantially increased profile drag. Hoerner wingtips would do much the same thing without the drag penalty. So will droop tips, but they do have the profile drag penalty.
 
Good Grief,
Induced drag - - - profile drag - - - What will the end plates do for me.
If a super cub had them, they can't be all bad.
 
They look like crap and will not help your performance.

Unfortunately, much is lost when things are oversimplified.

Bill
 
capav8 said:
That was helpful!
Click to expand...
Yes, and also very true. Harley mentality is everywhere.

Howdy Capav8,

Be careful/polite, lest you step on your lip. The people who replied to your question have been around the block a few times & know "stuff".

Welcome to THE .org on Cubs/aviation... when you've been around awhile you'll realize what a terrific knowledge base (thus resource) this place is. :)
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am building an experimental wag project. I saw a super cub with the flat wing tips. What are they called and what kind of performance would I expect to achieve.

Jim:

I had a J-3 w/C-85 with the endplates on it and noticed that it seemed to make the ailerons much more responsive than they were on the J-3 w/C-65 standard wing that I had owned previously. No scientific proof-just my personal observation. Where are you? I fly by Lee Summit all the time to go work on my Cub project in Lone Jack.

Pat
 
First of all I meant no disrespect to anyone. Looks are an opinion thing.
I think my female golden retriever is the prettiest dog I ever had - - - you may not!

Secondly I called the guy who actually started this forum who is based in Kansas City about the end plates. He said they were on his super cub when he bought it but soon after changed them out. Therefore had no real experience with them to share with me. He recommended that I register on the forum to ask the guys who have been around the block a few times and know "stuff". Appearance is opinion - - - performance is factual.

I've seen a few examples of cub variants with end plates such as the super cub on controller.com. I didn't think they look too bad at all.

Pat, responsive ailerons is a good thing. This is what I'm looking for, factual performance details.

Harley mentality - - - I'm hanging a chevy 4.3 V6 with a belted air power
reduction drive and a Catto 3 blade on mine. I saw his prop on a super cub also. Will email pictures!


Sorry for any wrong first impressions,
Jim
 
Pat,
Is Terry helping you with your project. If he is, I've met you at his shop.
Nice J-3.
 
capav8 said:
Pat,
Is Terry helping you with your project. If he is, I've met you at his shop.
Nice J-3.
Click to expand...


Jim-

Not trying to offend you but the best thing to do is some research on your own and then ask detailed questions on it here. It works pretty well. Its kinda like...you can lead horse to water.....

PS- We Have a 1/2lab 1/2 golden girl golden lab... 8)

Tim
 
Jim:

Terry is, and I now know who you are. Thanks for the compliment-it will be tough to put the first scratch on her.

Pat
 
The endplates will increase the roll rate at low speeds. They are intended to spin two wingtip vortices off each wingtip instead of one, and will help climb at very, very low speeds while hurting climb at speeds more usually seen. They will hurt cruise. There are better ways to accomplish their intended mission, which is why they haven't been seen much since the 50's. That aside, if you think they look cute, have at 'em.... :)
JimC
 
Micro VGs improve the aileron response at low speeds and all the way into the stall. This is from experience not opinion. ...Clyde
 
Now this is what I came here for guys- - - factual answers to my questions. The end plates seemed like an inexpensive easy to make answer to the wing tip problem. Sounds like the hoerner tips might be the solution. I don't need anything bringing down the performance, the over sized tires will do enough of that.
VG's - - -hummm. I saw those on a super cub too! ! !

Thanks for your help guys.
Jim
 
Look at the thread on Wayne Mackey's Podcast. There are pictures on that podcast of his tips, not plates but close. If Wayne installed them I bet they help STOL. :wink:
 
Jim

Welcome to the SC.org family. Sorry if I spanked you a bit. You initially asked a pretty complicated question and then seemed upset when the answer was not simple. As with any mod the performance will inevitably be a compromise as it is with anything having to do with aerodynamics. You can't get something for free in this business although VG's and Thrustline may come close. This is a rather mature site and just about any subject you can imagine has been discussed here. The search feature is your best friend and will lead you to more info (and BS) than you can believe. Here are a couple of topics taken from the Modifications section of the forum just to get you started. Best of luck.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=8742&highlight=important

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=6519&highlight=important

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=6168&highlight=important

This one might be helpful

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2630&highlight=important
 
If someone really wanted to improve wingtip performance, they could install retractable, high aspect ratio tip slots (I'd suggest a multple winglet aspect ratio of about 16 and about 5 retractable winglets per side), similar to the tip slots used by birds with a gross aspect ratio less than 12 (birds with a gross aspect ratio greater than 12 forego the tipslots and use a triangular tip). Determining the unit spanwise twist and average direction of extension for each individual winglet would be fun. This gives the low speed advantage without a highspeed penalty, except for the drag penalty of carrying the extra weight required to manipulate the device.
JimC
 
Tips

Hi Steve. I helped Wayne tuft and test his wings a while back and the tips are due to be changed. You just don't know for sure until you try it. Jerry B.
 
if you are looking for low speed stability and airleron response, the vgs might be a simpler and cheaper method. 12 geezer 2 has them on a 150 hp pa 12. which i have flown and there is a pretty marked improvement in the low speed characteristics. give him a shout , he can tell you his experiences
 
Steve, how do you blow a raspberry in English ?? :)

All kidding aside, I really would like to see someone do retractable tip slots. I've been thinking about doing it on a Cherokee. They wouldn't be optimal on the Cherokee though, I'd probably retract and extend them throught the existing lightening holes in the outboard ribs and those aren't optimally located for the purpose.

JimC
 
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