View Full Version : If you fly between Lower-48 and Alaska...

Christina Young
11-03-2007, 08:50 AM
Hi Everyone,
I didn't see this posted anywhere on this site, but the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol wants to impose a new rule on aircraft when they cross the U.S. to & from other countries (including Canada & Mexico).

Basically, they want you to submit the list of people who will be on the plane to Customs prior to entering or leaving the U.S, via Internet.

I don't know about you, but there is NO publicly-available Internet access at many of the airports that I leave from (in either Canada or the U.S.) for me to be able to do this, when I fly back and forth to Alaska. For me, it would be simply unrealistic to do this.

They have a comment period that ends on November 17. So far, according to AOPA, only 1000 pilots have posted comments. I know there's more than that on this site, many of whom cross the U.S. - Canadian border. I have posted my comments, and I found it only takes a few minutes.

So it this affects you, or might affect you in the future (i.e. you are in the lower-48 and plan to fly to Alaska someday), please submit your comments at:


Or go here first to get more details and instructions:


Gary Reeves
11-03-2007, 10:08 AM

They have been quite a few posts and info on the seaplane site:


Might want to take a look.


11-03-2007, 01:00 PM
I give up.

I can not get to the comment period, how would I get them the information????? :bad-words: :bad-words: :bad-words:

I bet the trouble is the large aircraft, and the idea was not thought out.

I will call my congressional delegation monday.


11-03-2007, 02:51 PM
I just sent my comments to the gov site on the new regulations.
My Cub is on floats and in the past I have enjoyed visiting Oshkosh and Maine and enjoying your great hospitality and friendship. I could never understand why there is even a border between us. When you fly on floats it looks all the same to me. Unfortunately, these regulations will result in scaring people like us from even thinking of flying to visit . I guess we keep out passport up to date and drive.

Rob Murray
11-03-2007, 04:05 PM
It's important that we all step up to the plate on this one. Form 178, that is currently in use for flights into the US, has provisions for listing passengers. If they want passport #s and ages of all on board they only need to add a couple more boxes. But assuming that everyone has internet access is unreasonable and unworkable.

11-04-2007, 08:40 PM
I sent my comments to CBP this morning, and also sent messages to my elected representatives.

Keep this alive folks--this one is really draconian, totally pointless, and will hurt general aviation directly.

Please comment on this. As of this morning, only 1000 comments had been received at the site. There are few more pilots than that who occasionally cross international boundaries.

Send in comments TODAY.


11-04-2007, 09:04 PM
Or you could just quietly cross the border around eastern Mt./Western Mn.

11-04-2007, 09:16 PM
I had first heard of this about a month ago on the Stinson webpage. Totally crazy. If someone in a plane needs to submit a list of people that will stop at customs at least one hour in advance, then why not make people in automobiles do the same? I see absolutely no difference. Either way, the whole plane load or car load will be stopping at a customs station and the officer will have a chance to check them all out there. Why in the world would they need names in advance of your arrival at customs, and how do they possibly expect us to use the internet from the wilds of Canada. And if I read the rule correctly, it will cost about $50 bucks per crossing for a plane? Maybe I didn't read that part right, but they spend a lot of time talking about how the fee will not be too burdensome.

11-04-2007, 09:21 PM
Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) is fighting it from this side of the border as well. We already have a 15 minute window to cross the border..now they want to pass regs that expect you to e-file a very short period before hand as well...and that ain't possible in 90% of your travels.

11-05-2007, 07:37 AM

There is now a BIG air presence along the northern border by CBP. They opened a new air operations branch in Great Falls in summer of 06 and last summer opened a new one in Grand Forks. Lots of new aircraft as well. Note that they built a BRAND NEW facility at Grand Forks airport, when in fact there are BRAND NEW, and in warm storage, HUGE facilities at Grand Forks Air Base. The BRAC commission shut down many of the operations at the base, and the hangars that were being constructed there were put in warm storage. Your tax dollars at work.

I'd be careful crossing the border by air nowadays--I'm thinking those boys are going to be REALLY bored, and looking for someone to "target".

In any case, folks, please keep this alive, and PLEASE comment. If you consider that there are well over 400, 000 AOPA members, AOPA has been trumpeting this for a while now, and only 1, 000 people have commented, that is lame.

Don't let them further restrict our freedoms, just because they can.

Again, please submit a comment to CBP AND send notes to your Congressional Reps.


11-05-2007, 08:01 AM
Anybody else getting an error when trying to go to the comment page? Mine keeps giving me a Javascript error

Jerry Gaston
11-05-2007, 03:08 PM
log on to Baja Bush Pilots site and they will give you the site to comment on. Baja Bush Pilots have been all over this issue and need your help .

11-05-2007, 03:29 PM
So, does United Airlines have to comply with this when it flies from Canada to a US city? If so, I guess no stand by passengers, please. :crazyeyes:


11-05-2007, 08:39 PM

Actually, yes, they do.


11-06-2007, 12:19 AM
I stand corrected. Is this a new policy or not then? Is GA being asked to do something the airlines are already doing? Educate me here.


Jim Mizer
11-06-2007, 05:14 AM
Marty, been out of it for a couple of years, so I can't tell you what the current deal is, but the Air Taxi people had to do this between the two countries. In fact, if you carried people in an aircraft over 12,500 lbs, you had the NO FLY LIST to deal with, ID checks, yea you got to know how old the ladies were. In fact if they were really cute, we would implement the random strip search rule, anything for National Security!

11-06-2007, 07:39 AM
Read this news flash. CBP can't get it right AT border stations, fer cryin out loud... http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/05/border.security/index.html

I heard from a friend who's a blue water sailor that CBP has proposed a similar statute requiring the same of sailboats and recreational power boats.

Good grief.


Rob Murray
11-06-2007, 08:46 AM
There always has been a distinction between commercial and personal use aircraft (among other vehicles) and while I'm not happy about going through airport security in my socks, holding my pants up with one hand and my plastic bag shaving kit in the other, general aviatiion flights, quite correctly, have not been viewed as a threat. Until now. But it's not as if we are flitting back and forth across the border without anyone knowing who we are, who is on board, where we are going and the purpose of our flight. Asking for additional information or having to register outbound flights is bad enough, but assuming we all have access to the internet is unrealistic and could make the process just about unworkable. We don't have electricity on our island and I fly in many areas during the summer where my cell phone (and other peoples Blackberries)won't work. Being able to file and get Wx is the main reason I have the damn thing. And installing a solar powered, satellite connected computer in my Super Cub is not an option.

Jerry Gaston
11-06-2007, 09:18 AM
Here is a letter from the Baja Bush Pilots leader Jack McCormick to home land security

Critical Homeland Security Alert - 10/17/2007

The BBP, AOPA, and COPA are leading the drive to make changes that will allow us the freedom to cross borders much as we have in the past.

The BBP works hard to protect and help pilots who fly in Mexico and Central America. We now, more than ever, need your help.

I read on the board about Mulege, Cabo San Lucas, Alamos, and more. If we don´t get changes to this rule, there will be little talk about these places in the future.

You need to help yourselves, the BBP, AOPA, and COPA kick butt and get changes to this proposed rule. Without your support, the wall between Mexico and the US will not be 12 feet but 20,000 feet.

Click here ...


And.... The BBP letter to USCBP

October 15, 2007

Jack McCormick

Baja Bush Pilots

149 W Boston Street
Chandler, AZ, 85225

Border Security Regulations Branch
Office of International Trade

U.S. Customs and Border Protection

1300 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.(Mint Annex)
Washington, DC20229

Regarding extending comment period for USCBP-2007-0064

The Baja Bush Pilots (BBP) organization represents over 4,000 pilots from the US, Canada, Mexico, and the Central American countries. All these pilots have a common interest, that of flying their private aircraft across international borders. In addition, in this matter, it represents Aeromedicos, Flying Doctors, Liga International, and the Flying Samaritans, all humanitarian organizations who fly to Mexico to provide health care to those in need.

This proposed rule, in the short period that it has been open for comments, has drawn over 500 responses.

We are in the process of contacting all of our members requesting their input however, because of logistics involved, many are still not aware of nor had time to respond to this proposed rule change.

In order to insure that all are aware of this proposed rule and have adequate time to respond, we hereby request that the time period for comment on this rule be extended to January 18, 2008.

Baja Bush Pilots

Jack McCormick


Click here to see AOPA´s letter to USCBP

Click here to see COPA´s letter to USCBP (Canada)

Click Here to see the BBP interview by AVweb at AOPA

To make or see comments posted, on this proposed rule, go to:


Then pick Optional Step 4 towards the bottom of the page
From the pull down, choose Docket ID
To the right of the pull down, type USCBP-2007-0064
Click on Submit

Then to make a comment:
On the right side of the screen under “Comments Add/Due By:
Click on the little sticky note icon.
You can then make a comment

To see comments made:
On the upper left, click on USCBP-2007-0064.
You will see the list of who submitted, the date, and if you click on “views” you will see what they said.


It may not hurt to join the BBP or AOPA and get active about this one.

11-06-2007, 10:30 AM
I can not even get on the correct page for goodness sake :bad-words: :bad-words:

How am I supposed to report to customs?

Is there an alternate way to contact these idiots? Fax even? Mail?

I am not going to try again to get on the page for electronic comment, my heart will not take it.

If someone wants to put this as part of their post, I would appreciate it.

I did call the congressional delegation from Alaska, they don't seem to see the need for this either.


Dave Calkins
11-06-2007, 11:55 AM
I was able to comment easily by following Jack McCormick's instructions.

I copied and pasted this from the http://www.regulations.gov site:

You may submit comments, identified by docket number USCBP- 2007-0064, by one of the following methods:
• Federal eRulemaking Portal: http://www.regulations.gov. Follow the instructions for submitting comments via docket number.
• Mail: Border Security Regulations Branch, Office of International Trade, U.S Customs and Border Protection, 1300 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW., (Mint Annex), Washington, DC 20229. Instructions: All submissions received must include the agency name and document number for this rulemaking. All comments received will be posted without change to http://www.regulations.gov, including any personal information provided. For detailed instructions on submitting comments and additional information on the rulemaking process, see the Public Participation heading of the SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION section of this document. Docket: For access to the docket to read background documents or comments received, go to http://www.regulations.gov. Submitted comments may also be inspected on regular business days between the hours of 9 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. at the Office of International Trade, Customs and Border Protection, 799 9th Street, NW., 5th Floor, Washington, DC. Arrangements to inspect submitted comments should be made in advance by calling Mr. Joseph Clark at (202) 572-8768.

Bill Cangero
11-06-2007, 09:50 PM
No problem. Just get Homeland Security to issue another few billion to Lockheed to set up web access all over Canada and the US.

Now Arabs are going to be sneaking into the US in Super Cubs!

Ever notice why they can't find any terrorists--that's because there aren't any except for some retarded Arabs who get strung along and provided with money and materials by undercover RCMPs, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.

Jihad website (registered and paid for in Houston, Texas) just revealed that the US Girl Scouts are planning to take over airliners by tossing sale cookies like Frisbees and knocking out the flight crew.

OK-so for all you wanna be heroes with your shiny new badges and sniper rifles--keep the cross hairs on their little foreheads at the airports. If you have to blast a few--don't worry, no one is allowed to question your judgment, we are at war!

Some one tell me again how all those buildings came down at free fall speed.

Uh oh--I think I just got tagged with an FBI file. Think I'll stay away from big airports.