C170 engine conversion

Well it's been over a year now planning, and pushing the financial marbles around, but it looks like my motor conversion on the C170 is getting close to done. The mechanic should be doing the test run on the motor in a few days, and if all goes well I'll be scooting around the skys finishing the motor breakin and testing it out. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

Well...

Well,
What motor are you putting in?

Mike

C-170 Conversion

New Years day flyin at Bemidji,Mn. on the frozen lake brought about 25 planes in to the event! In that bunch was a Cessna 170 -B with a 180 HP Lycoming and a constant speed prop and a Found Bush Hawke with a big engine. There was also a Cessna 170-B with a 220 HP Franklin and constant speed prop. I didn't have a chance to talk to any of the owners and when they left for home they all did the short field take-off and hard climb thingie !! What amazed me was the Franklin powered C-170 smoked them all for peak performace !! He really got with the program !! If I were considering a conversion, I would definately check that one out!! John

I would like to know a little bit more about that Franklin 220 conversion as to the increased numbers etc. I found some info on it, but it didn't say much about the TO performance. Their web site has some info on the ones they have approved. www.franklinengines.com/

I would like to put the 125 in a PA-11.

John,

THat was me in the 180 hp 170, and I most certainly DID NOT perform any sort of short takeoff or climb on that departure. That was just average performance. THere is little doubt, though, with the additional 40 hp, that a Franklin powered 170 will go.

Try finding Franklin parts, though. The company comes and goes periodically, in and out of production. Latest I heard was that Pratt and Whitney bought it, as part of a package, and is trying to unload the Franklin stuff.

MTV

The latest on the Franklin is it is supposedly coming again. Back from Poland. Apparently Pratt didn't get the rights to the reciprocating line of engines. If you go to franklin-engines, you will see more. They did have a booth as OSH and Sun and Fun, and have made some arrangements with a couple of the most reputable Franklin rebuilders around, namely Greg Lucas. The word is, the complete engine, new, with carb and all the goodies attached, certified, will be in the low to mid-20's for the 220. Also, they are supposedly coming to market early this year with parts for the 220 and 180 franklins. I hope it is true and will believe it when I see it. I have a vested interest since I have a 220 Franklin powered Stinson. Actually, parts are not really a problem, there are several places, namely Greg Lucas and Susan Prall that specialize in Franklins, and have most any part you could need in stock. But, down the road, could be a concern. The 220 is a real performer, and power to weight is great compared to most brand L and C powerplants. Fuel burn is good also, but requires 100LL.

After nearly a year of mulling it over I decided to go with a Lycoming O360 180hp and constant speed prop. I looked at both the Cont. IO360 and the Franklin 350, they both offered more HP but also more weight, and neither of those STC owners seemed to provide much support. The Franklin people never returned my two phone calls or email. The STC for Cont. IO360 sounded like it required a lot of fabrication, and I didn't hear from anybody who had a good time with the conversion. I also didn't like the added complication of header tanks and return lines. I settled on the DelAir STC as it seemed to be a complete kit.

I also thought about the sensible alternative of just buying another plane either a C180 or a SC. After looking around for a few months I found that I wasn't seeing anything in my price range in state (I didn't want to do the out of state buying experience again) that wasn't a rebuilder project in the making, plus I didn't relish the thought of selling my plane.

Right now I'm just waiting to see how it turns out, the next few days will tell. We still have the initial run up and checks to go through, and I'll be very interested in how the weight and balance works out. The specified wieghts for the various motors is a bit hard to compare because the manufactures don't really specify if it's the weight with accessories, or which accessories, etc. However the O360 specs out twenty some pounds lighter than the origional O300 (which should help with the added weight of the CS prop) and the Cont. IO360 specs about sixty pounds heavier (that's a lot more weight on the nose when you add a CS prop on there) I couldn't find a weight for the 350 but I would be surprised if it were much less than the Cont. IO360. Time will tell, but I'm hoping the end result will be something between a SuperCub and a C180.

According to the documents page on franklin-engines.com, the without accessory weight of the 220 Franklin is 297 pounds. I know in the Stinson application, with constant speed prop and all accessories, it weighs in at about 115 pounds less than the Cont O-470. Sounds like your 170 will be great with the 180 horse, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed. If anyone else on this site is needing parts, support, or whole Franklin engines, Greg Lucas or Susan Prall are the people to talk too. They usually have complete rebuilt motors ready to go in stock.

Andy, who has two 170B's with 220 Franklins here in Brainerd concurs with you Superchamp regarding parts availability and the new engine being produced. He's a bit of a Franklin guru himself. Like John said earlier, his airplanes really get with the program! 8)

I dragged him northbound one time with the Found balls to the wall. The 300 hp Found didn't walk away very fast and it took nearly 30 gph to do it!

I was told by a Stinson Guru that there isn't a 220 franklin around that will make 220 on a dyno!! an opinion only,, The 0-360 to me looks like the way to go!!!!

Matt

C 170 conversion

Superchamp There is quite a bit of negative talk about Franklin engines in the country right now that I think is undeserved. Through the years I owned about 10 Stinsons with Franklin engines. They are a smooth running engine and easy to work on. A lot like the old cars back in the 50's and 60's ! They burn a little more gas than the Lycs.,but when gas was 25 cents a gallon nobody cared. Parts were hard to come buy for awhile, but if you could get ahold of old George Heinley he always came up with what you needed at a reasonable price. Well he's gone to that great place in the sky now and I was told that Susan Prall is his daughter and she took over her dads business. From what I have seen she has made business arrangements for numerous new parts for the Franklins. I know that before George passed away he didn't have any new pistons available for sale. I believe Susan now has these available and other PMA parts to keep us going. For that I thank her!! By the way, the 150's and 165's run better on car gas than 100 LL John

I have a 170b with the avcon conversion, 180hp with the 80 inch prop. Great airplane, on floats, wheels, or skis.
My plane weighs 1,341 on wheels. It burns 10 gph and will cruise at 137 mph at 2400 square. I am in the process of trading it for a super cub.
But not because I don't like the 170, I just want a cub and can't afford both. I also run 2100 whips on it. It works great. Alot of the guys around here run edo 2000. I think you will be happy with the 180 conversion.
Jeff

I doubt many motors will make full rated horsepower on a dyno. I have also heard- and that is about all its worth-that a lot of Franklin 220's put out closer to 230 hp. That being said, when you feed full throttle into my 220, it pulls hard. Mine is primarily used as a float plane, and it is an honest to godness four adult and full fuel plane with that motor. I plan 12 gph, but the burn is usually lower than that. As much as I like the motor, long term I think Lyc and Cont will be around. If I were starting from scratch on a Stinson, I would have to seriously consider the 210Continental, just because of availabilty. Just hard to say with the Franklin. As MTV mentioned, they have come and gone several times. And whether this current coming really happens remains to be seen. The Polish company is already running later than they first said, and I note his website hasn't been changed in months. I wish them the best. There are a lot of very happy Franklin owners that would like to know they will have a secure parts source for years to come.

Well my 170/180 is finally up and running. I like it, a lot.

I gotta give a word of thanks to Aerosport Power up in BC, Bart it is a smooth motor, Sue you were great to deal with very quick to answer my emails and a great help with some of the part changes that we had to make.

Yakima Aerosport put the motor in and did a great job to.

It's still the friendly old C170 that I've learned to love over the last three years, but she gets off the ground quick and climbs like a homesick angle now with the constant speed prop out front. I didn't expect much of an increase in cruise speed over a stock 170 with a cruise prop so I'm not real disappointed to discover that it hasn't turned into a Beechcraft, but it looks like I'm seeing a realistic economy cruise of around 125mph indicated while she's burning 8gph or less. Running 25 squared is showing 135mph indicated which is nice if I'm in a hurry (which I almost never am) but the fuel burn goes up, exactly how much I'm not sure yet but I bet it's pushing 10gph.

Aside from the takeoff run and rate of climb the other good news is that my usefull load on paper is the same as it was before, and by moving the battery back behind the baggage my CG arm has moved less than an inch forward from where it was.

Cubus Maximus,

A Found not walking away from anything is nothing to write home about :lol: .

MTV

Mike,



Brad


(oh hey, pictures of your bird at 'Pout Fest Saturday:

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=268

Sort of the burning man of the north, maybe they should call it frozen man ... Good grief was that cold, I suppose you jumped in with the rest of the polar bears? We had a foreign exchange student from Thailand who brought her bathing suit and REALLY wanted to do it. Fortunately we were able to bundle her back into the airplane and escape before she made good on the threat. Don't need an international incident...)

'Pout Fest pictures

Mike, Did you put the refuel steps on your plane via a 337 form, or is that an STC, or just a log book entry? Also do you have a source for the steps? Does it require a backing plate on the inside? Thanks, Jon

Jon,

We did it as a minor, using a Cessna steps and handles kit. Honestly can't tell you what's behind em, though. The steps and handles kit is a stock Cessna item, so the mechanics figured it's pretty simple.

MTV

refuel steps

Thanks Mike, I'll find the Cessna kit. Have an annual coming up real soon and "need something new' to put on the 170 . We are also putting on Cleveland double pucks at this annual. Soon after hope to start on the Sportsman STOL kit. Thanks again, Jon

There was a guy we knew in Traverse City Mich. who had a Cessna 170B with a Lyc. 180 from a Mooney, he called it "Moosna"

a 0-360 is the best engine capt. crash has one in his 170.marc