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stinsons ???

D

dstr59

Registered User
N. california
anybody know who owns the type certificate on stinson 108's?
also anyone have any input on how they do on floats?
 
They do very well on floats. Perhaps one of the most underrated aircraft around, in my opinion, and the last of the good deals, price wise.

MTV
 
We had a dash 3 converted to a dash 5. It's in Valdez now - a gorgeous aircraft. With a 180 Franklin and C/S prop, it would out-climb a C-180! Big drawback is cruise speed - 110 Kts at about 12 gph. Also ran out of rudder at 13 kts direct crosswind - after that, it was brakes! But Stinsons in general will haul anything you can stuff into them. Not really cheap anymore; they start at 30.
 
Hopefully Superchamp will chime in here. He has a Stinson on floats and I think he is pretty happy with it. PM him and I'm sure he will answer any of your questions.
Keith
 
Yeah but Keith - doesn't Superchamp's Stinson 108-2 have a 220 Franklin in it? Kind of a rare bird and all field approved many moons ago.

Brad
 
Stinsons

I've got some 108-3 time and some AT-19/V77 time. Stinsons are great planes. The only drawback to me, on the 108 series, is the Franklin engine which is hard to get parts for. The 108 flies really nice and is very roomy. If I wasn't crasy about my Pacer, I'd buy a Stinson. Although, I would trade my Pacer for a good Gullwing or Reliant project

Pat/Anchorage
 
Brad,

Yes, Superchamp's Stinson has the 220 Franklin. I didn't know that they were that rare. From what I remember him telling me though, he was having good luck with it and very pleased with its performance. He keeps it on floats at his house.

Keith
 
Stinsons

Over the years I have owned about 10 Stinsons - 108 models. They are an excellent reasonably priced four placed airplane even with yhe Franklin engine. They will out perform a Cessna 172 or C170 with the C-145 engine hands down. Engine parts are available tho sometimes hard to find. There biggest shortcoming is the old Goodyear brakes. I have had three 108-3 models that I put double puck Cleaveland brakes on and that solved the problem! I have landed a 108-3 many times in a 30 mph 90 degree X-wind with Cleaveland brakes without any problems. Before anyone tries this , they have to be proficient in a tailwheel airplane. ! sold my last Stinson about 10 years ago and kept my Pacer because it burned 3 gal. of gas less per hour. Four people in a Pacer is like a can of Sardines!! Lots more room in a Stinson. But I had a relapse, and just bought another 108-3 They are a { as Bennie Howard use to say } Damn Good Airplane !!
 
You can handle heavy crosswinds in the dash 3; the brakes are absolutely necessary. The rudder isn't big enough. Opinion. I routinely practice in 20kt direct crosswinds in my J3 and in the 180.
 
thanks guys!
appreciate all the helpful input.glad your not all "type cast" in stone (if ya know what i mean).
love the family super(18-135A), just interested in something to try dinkin 'round on floats w/ for a while. the wife does get tired of lookin at the back of my head though.
oh yeah, thought univair owned the T.C. , but when looking on the FAA web page .... couldn't seem to find it. of course after being enlightned here, and going back, there it was plain as that rock coming out of the clouds. lol thanks again
 
The 220 isn't a field approval. Its an STC by Seaplanes Inc, and still available for any -1, -2 or -3. Super Stinson Inc has the STC for the 0-470. Supposedly you will be able to buy the 220's brand new after the first of this year. Check out the Stinson owner group website for info. Spent 10 days in Canada last month with a my Stinson (a -3) on 2425's, a friends C180 on 2870's (a nice light 56 model). We both carried 3 people, tons of gear, and full fuel (50 gallons for me and I think he carried 55). First time I had a chance to go head to head with a good 180. Loaded roughly equal, with each of us carrying about 1000 pounds, my Stinson was easily out of the water first. Climb was about the same. The 180 was about 10-15 mph faster in cruise. At one point I hauled four people, and he hauled two. Off the water was about the same, but the 180 was way faster in cruise when I had a lot bigger load. It's like my Stinson was pulling a parachute. It actually flew nice and felt right, but could only get about 95 mph out of it, and the 180 was about 120mph. That 265 pound guy in the back seat with 4 cases of beer and 100 pound pack really slowed my cruise. When we went back to 3 people each I was up to about 105-110 mph and the 180 cruised at about 115-120. In a 100 mile trip, he got there less than 10 minutes ahead of me. He burned about 15% more fuel than I did. Both great old float planes very capable in the bush. If you're going to fly the Stinson on floats, don't get the 150 or 165.
 
Glad to hear the 220 is back into production. Got a 220 hp -3 in the storage hanger to be rebuilt after we finish the Stearman.
 
One point with the Stinsons on floats: The best older float on the Stinsons, and almost the only ones approved, are the EDO 2425 floats. Those are really hard to find, so be advised, there aren't a lot of them out there.

On the other hand, there are some new floats approved on the Stinson, but they'll cost ya.

MTV
 
uhh...ohh, yeah in my nosing around i haven't seen many 2425's about. i did see that they are what is approved on the T.C. can only imagine trying to get something else approved, w/ the helpful nature of our friends in the FAA.
alternatives?
 
The 2425's are real nice, and if you can find a set with hatches even better. I see a few sets a year for sale, almost all are rigged for Stinsons. They are very well matched for the plane. The only alternatives are 2440's and 2870's, and I think both need some type of approval. As I recall, they are approved for use with certain engines, and neither of the engines are the F220 or O470. An outfit in Hibbing MN called Tuffloats has been working on floats for a Stinson. They are flying them in the test mode. I called them 2 years ago and they said they would be approved in 2 months. I called them one year ago and they said they would be approved in 2 months. Their website says they are still trying to receive approval. They look nice, but I got the feeling they may never get approved. The price they were quoting me was very reasonable, in the low 20's. Would be a great price for new composite floats with built in hatches. You'll be happy with the big engine Stinson on floats. They really pull hard off the water. You'd be happy with a 180 too, but you'll have less money in your pocket or a bigger loan at the bank. Pays your moneys and takes your chances.
 
In my opinion and limited experience, loaded equal, yes. But the 180 will beat you there. The 180 also is easier to load, since it has the extended baggage accessible from the cabin. The Stinson baggage has a baggage door accessible from the outside. The 180 has more back seat room. The Stinson back seat is good for short legged people. Both are no slouch off the water with good technique. If a 180 will get out on floats, you will definitely get the Stinson out on floats. The F220 is 100 pounds lighter than the O470 when installed on the Stinson.
 
The new manufacturer was at S&F and Osh, supposedly about the 1st of the year. We'll see. Check out the Stinson owners group on Yahoo for more information.
 
I like the idea of the F220 or IO-360 engines in a Stinson 108 the engines about the same weight the IO-360 burns 8 gph on cruise vs the F220 burns 10 gph. There has been many F220 conversions but only about five IO-360s, that I can find. Makes me wounder if there is any trouble with this engine in the Stinson such as cooling things like that. Anone have experiance with this 108 IO-360 combination? Any history on the IO360 engine. I think that combination would make a great float plane. The 470 has been converted to many stinsons down side is a added 100 pounds over previously mentiond engines and a much higher fuel burn. Before I invested into that conversion I would either buy a 180 or a M7 Maule.

I still find the idea of a IO-360 in a 108-3 pretty interesting I would like to know more about the conversions and performance on floats.

Cub_driver
 
Stinsons are a great airplane, I had one till hurricane wilma took it, the biggest draw back is the Franklin engine although a good smooth engine the CRANKSHAFT is IMPOSSIBLE to find a good one.
 
Speaking of Stinsons...

What can one expect from a 165 hp 108-3, with partial load, for a take-off run and climb out? I rode in one yesterday that seemed to take about 1500 feet of pavement to get off. We were about 5 miles out (at an indicated 65-70mph) before we had 800 feet between us and the ground!

I was expecting to be lifted off in about 500 feet with just two of us, and also hoped to be near pattern altitude at the end of a 4000 foot runway.

These machines can't all be dogs, can they? Shouldn't they get something like 7-800 feet per minute of climb? This one allegedly has a seaplane prop on it. We didn't get more than about 90mph at 2500 rpm.

This one was overhauled 700 hours ago but it was in 1977. It was topped just over 200 hours ago, in 1985! It's only racked up 300 hours in over 20 years. I walked away from it.

Jon B.
 
165 HP Stinsons

Jon - sounds like that one was on floats on a hot day. Those numbers don't seem even close to where they should be. Heavy plane? Tired motor? Horrible technique? That speed is way off too. One of the 220 powered Stinsons in TAP is for$43,000 - I think the motor was high time though. The 165 on wheels can be a pretty snappy plane. I would think with a seaplane prop it should climb like crazy loaded lightly. Sounds like you did the right thing.
 
I agree, those are bad performance numbers. A good 165hp 108 will get off a lot quicker and climb out better than that

Jason
N3673T
 
Thanks, guys. I was unimpressed. It could have been a case of the pilot not knowing how to get the airplane to peform. He's only had it for a couple of years, and hasn't flown it much. Now, it's for sale.

The density altitude yesterday afternoon was 3300 at this particular field. When we took off, he held the tail low and we skipped along, sliding in the wind. I had expected him to raise the tail and pin it on one wheel 'til we had some speed, then haul it off. That's what *I'd* have done with a cross-wind.

The guy says he's got something like 6000 hours and flies a C-185 on amphibs...

Maybe the engine is way on the weak side. The tach showed between 2200 and 2300 when climbing.

Jon B.
 
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