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Dan2+2
12-19-2005, 09:17 PM
I am leaning strongly towards this set up for my 160 O320. Or two Pmags. Anybody have any experiance with these they could share?

Tim
12-19-2005, 09:33 PM
Dan
I've been wondering the same thing. I'm not sure but I've heard it doesn't help much down low. I friend has electronic ignition on a Questair venture, he said up at 15,000ft it makes a big difference.

Tim

Mauleguy
12-19-2005, 10:45 PM
Get MikeO to rave about the Lightspeed with Hall effect phase III. I have almost written the check a half dozen times now. I keep going back to just buying another mag with impluse coupling, still up in the air. I want to hear the pros and cons from someone that has 1000-2000 hrs on lightspeeds product. Anyone out there?

Greg

Jerry Burr
12-20-2005, 11:41 AM
I just installed an E-Mag on a hot rod O-360 . Nothing to hang on the firewall and very easy to time. Not going to test fly until this storm blows through. Will let you know. Jerry.

Dan2+2
01-03-2006, 07:30 PM
Jerry, any results on the hot rod 360/Emag to report?

gpepperd
01-03-2006, 10:53 PM
There's an informative article in December issue of EAA's Sport Aviation magazine but that does'nt take the place of a real user. Like lot's of other folks I'd like to hear some first hand reports. GP

Erik
01-03-2006, 11:23 PM
What's Pmag and Emag?

X18
01-04-2006, 12:16 AM
Erik,
The EMag/PMag is an electronic ignition system that is a direct replacement for a magneto in a lycoming 320/360 in the experimental market. It is a popular system in the RV group, I'll try to find some performance reports on the system. The E is a straight electronic ignition and the P is an EMag with a built in permanent magnet alternator to provide electricity for the EI at or above idle speed. Once you get started with a PMag, it will continue to run without any external power source. The company has stated that they will seek certification after all of the design/production problems have been resolved. More info at their website: http://emagair.com/

Jim

skywagon8a
04-06-2009, 02:41 PM
Just thought that if some of you are thinking about an E-mag ignition system for your experimental you might like to know that they are having a 30% off sale now. I just ordered a set for my TCOW Cub.

http://www.emagair.com/Show%20Special%2009.htm

FdxLou
04-06-2009, 03:43 PM
I have 2 P-Mags sitting on the bench. I, too, took advantage of the 30% off sale.

Hope to have them installed soon on my Smith Cub.

Lou

Roger Peterson
04-06-2009, 05:34 PM
I had the lightspeed unit on my cub when I built it. I loved it and it did things for the engine that made for great performance. But I spend 4 months in canada and if I end up with a dead battery out in the Bush, I have no way to get it started. I would have to hit the help button on the spot or trip the switch on my PLB. I know I could carry a extra battery but the old mag it real safe. Until I can get it spinning 900 rpm by hand, even though electronic ign is great, I will stay with the mags I have put back on the unit.

FdxLou
04-06-2009, 06:20 PM
According to the folks at E-Mag....all you need to get it to fire is a 9V flashlight battery. Just something to ignite the mixture and then once the engine fires and goes above 800RPM you are back in business.

In fact, they claim, if you have a "dead battery", ie the starter just clicks, there is more than enough juice to create an explosion and get things going.When my starter clicks and won't engage I still show around 11.4-11.6V.

A friend has one P-Mag and can do all of the above while hand propping.

We shall see, said the blind man.

Lou

Roger Peterson
04-06-2009, 06:29 PM
Thanks Lou. I had not checked into it far enough. Think I will give it another try. Just wire in a gel cell, keep it charged through a diode and switch it in if I ever need it. I sure liked the electronic ignition. Have no experience with E-Mag but would hope their programing is as good as that of Lightspeed.

irishfield
04-06-2009, 06:39 PM
I don't remember "who's" this is (believe it's lightspeed).. but one that I installed on a customers Rebel last year and by coincidence (with this thread going as well today) I took pics of it today while I was starting an amphib install this morning.

http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/emag.jpg
http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/emag2.jpg
http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/emag3.jpg

Mitch Gast
04-06-2009, 06:43 PM
For lots of user info on emag/pmag do a search on the Vans RV
forums:

www.vansairforce.com/community/index.php

For info on emags & pmags:

www.emagair.com

Real world experiences both good and not so good.
Desperately waiting for a 6 cylindar model to come out.

gpepperd
04-19-2011, 11:53 AM
So it's been a few years since this thread was started and has any concenus developed? I'm anxious to hear what results have been achieved. The P-Mag seems to have solved the in flight power problem. Do current users see benefit/value for our cub type of flying below 5000 ' ? Seems like a no brainer when Slicks are throw-away but I would sure like to hear some more user input. Thanks in advance. Greg

WWhunter
04-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Isn't the Lightspeed ignition used on the CC340 used in the Carbon Cub? I was just researching this very subject this weekend while we had that white crap falling from the sky. The Lightspeed appears to be the most prevelant ignition used in homebuilts.
WW

Superchub
04-19-2011, 02:59 PM
You might want to check out this guy's stuff. I had it on my RV-6 and it will soon be on my CHUB. This gut has some cool stuff.

www.g3ignition.com

Brandon

randylervold
04-19-2011, 05:24 PM
Isn't the Lightspeed ignition used on the CC340 used in the Carbon Cub? I was just researching this very subject this weekend while we had that white crap falling from the sky. The Lightspeed appears to be the most prevelant ignition used in homebuilts.
WW
Yes, we use two Lightspeed Plasma III systems on the CC340, both wired directly to the battery, not through the master contactor.

I've built a couple of RVs now and believe Lightspeed is quite easily the most prevalent system out there. The Emag/Pmag system has been making inroads in that market however and I like many aspects of their design. They had some early teething problems but believe they have largely worked through them. If you have an Experimental where you can use them they are definitely worth a look.

Tim
04-19-2011, 05:37 PM
I've have an E-mag and a Bendix mag for 3 years on my 0-320, I like it. I have 9 to 1 pistons and Lycon CYLs. lean of peak ( CHTs 360deg ) I burn 6 to 6.2 GPH 23" 2450 rpms

FdxLou
04-19-2011, 11:28 PM
I have 2 P-Mags sitting on the bench. I, too, took advantage of the 30% off sale.

Hope to have them installed soon on my Smith Cub.

Lou

Well it has been 2 yrs and 700hrs of trouble free flying. The NGK BR8eis iridium auto plugs never load up and never wear out.

I have approx 212hp...O-360/ 10-1 pistons/ K&N Airfilter / LEES SS exhaust. I burn 1 to 1.5gph less than with Slicks. At 275-300 hrs per year they paid for themselves in one year!

Would do it on my 180 but Emag isn't ready yet.

Lou

dougsappllc
04-20-2011, 01:41 PM
Have 450 hours on my 160 lyc with 2 light speed mags without a glitch, also running NGK's, K&N filter, burn 7.2 @cruise of 2450.

Tim
04-20-2011, 08:02 PM
Doug, do you run lean of peak?

cubdriver2
04-20-2011, 10:34 PM
I've have an E-mag and a Bendix mag for 3 years on my 0-320, I like it. I have 9 to 1 pistons and Lycon CYLs. lean of peak ( CHTs 360deg ) I burn 6 to 6.2 GPH 23" 2450 rpms

Tim you normally fly with a bunch of C85 powered friends :howdy I would think at the power setting you need to keep up with us that you'd only burn a gallon or two an hour.

Glenn

dougsappllc
04-21-2011, 11:28 AM
Tim,
No I do not run lean of peak. should I be?

Tim
04-21-2011, 11:36 AM
Listen to this, then you tell me
http://www.savvymx.com/index.php/leaning-basics

tcraft128
04-22-2011, 05:03 AM
:roll: SJ we have been invaded!

mikeo
04-22-2011, 09:02 AM
I've used lightspeed for 9 years over 1500 hours of flawless performance on two different cubs average fuel burn 7.2 gph I run two on my kuzoom airplane 800 hrs no trouble have a 1.7lb back up battery would recommend to anyone Mikeo

SJ
04-23-2011, 07:33 AM
:roll: SJ we have been invaded!

Thanks for reporting the post, that is the best way to handle it when you find them. We have had a lot of spam registrations lately, I am going to have to get fancier...

sj

kevin
04-23-2011, 10:47 AM
Steve, not to have thread creep here, but is something wrong with the Chat?

SJ
04-23-2011, 10:52 AM
Yes, clearly it has been hacked. Thanks for the heads up.

Dave Calkins
04-23-2011, 06:10 PM
I've used lightspeed for 9 years over 1500 hours of flawless performance on two different cubs average fuel burn 7.2 gph I run two on my kuzoom airplane 800 hrs no trouble have a 1.7lb back up battery would recommend to anyone Mikeo

Mike. I tried to call you today. Number no longer in service.

What are you running for advance with the lightspeed during your NOS shots??

I'm doing Pmags on Josh Pepperd's Producer, and thinking about the advance curve during the nitrous shot. I took off a Slick and a Lightspeed to install the dual Pmags......looks like they were running full advance on the single lightspeed during the NOS shot. My thinking is that less advance during the shot would be kinder on the pistons.

Thanks for any info. We'll get with our suppliers and try to research where others' have pioneered the advance curves that work best with NOS. Thanks again. DAVE

Fortysix12
02-05-2012, 07:09 AM
Time for an up date. Pmags? Emags? Lightspeed? hand Proping? Increase Power? Ignition Harness pros and cons?

cgoldy
02-06-2012, 03:35 PM
I only have 100 hours on a o-375 with one standard mag and an e-mag. I have had to disconnect the map tube to return the advance mechanism back to a standard 26 deg to reduce my cht issues. All fine now but it is a pitty I can't use it to it's full advantage.

Tim
02-06-2012, 05:48 PM
cgoldy, I had the same problem with my one mag and one E-mag on my 0-320 with 9.5 to 1 pistons. I had high CHTs and high oil temps. I now run lean of peak and I mean really lean of peak and all is well. Worked for me, your mileage may very. My oil stays cleaner longer also.

Tim

skywagon8a
02-07-2012, 07:11 AM
cgoldy, I had the same problem with my one mag and one E-mag on my 0-320 with 9.5 to 1 pistons. I had high CHTs and high oil temps. I now run lean of peak and I mean really lean of peak and all is well. Worked for me, your mileage may very. My oil stays cleaner longer also.
Tim
Do you suppose that the high temps had something to do with having one regular mag and one Emag? You both are running two separate timing settings at one time. Would you not be better off having two identical ignition systems rather than the two fighting each other? What happens when you fly with the magneto shut off? Do you still get the high temps? Have you tried first just the mag and then just the Emag for a temperature comparison test?

Tim
02-07-2012, 07:44 AM
Do you suppose that the high temps had something to do with having one regular mag and one Emag? You both are running two separate timing settings at one time. Would you not be better off having two identical ignition systems rather than the two fighting each other? What happens when you fly with the magneto shut off? Do you still get the high temps? Have you tried first just the mag and then just the Emag for a temperature comparison test?

I tried that, made no difference.

skywagon8a
02-07-2012, 08:08 AM
I tried that, made no difference.
OK I accept that answer. Do you have any air leaks in your baffles? It is very important that all of the cooling air passes through the proper places, particularly in higher powered (souped up) engines. I have seen air gaps that were so big that they were not even noticed. Do the baffles fit tightly to the cylinder fins? The air gaps all matter. A Cub has a low cruising speed. Therefor there is a small amount of ram air going through the cooling department. Because of this you need to trap every last molecule of air. I have seen as little as 5 mph of speed change make a tremendous difference in engine temperatures.

Cub Builder
02-07-2012, 10:16 AM
No two ways about it. The advanced ignition at cruise is going to create more cylinder head heat. If your cooling is already marginal, the advanced firing of an electronic ignition system to save fuel may not be the right answer for you. In a Cub, or any other slow plane for that matter, that can be a real challenge as your forward speed is somewhat limited and IMHO, the original Piper baffling leaves a lot to be desired. Improving the baffling, closing up the baffle leaks, and/or improving the exit area for cooling air can go a long ways towards bringing those CHTs back down. Another thing to remember is that these "air cooled" engines are at least partially gas cooled. Better efficiency in burning the fuel also means you are cooling less with the fuel. Advanced ignition timing equals less time that the raw fuel is cooling the cylinder and more time generating heat. If you can run aggressively lean of peak, the fuel charge is being reduced enough to reduce the amount of heat being generated, but many carbureted engines can't run lean of peak.

cgoldy
02-07-2012, 03:49 PM
Skywagon

I ran just the mag and then just the advanced emag. Emag was 20 deg hotter. Baffling is all good. I am happy now having the map disconnected. Now that I can concentrate on flying and not the CHT's.

Colin

Bugs66
02-07-2012, 05:00 PM
I just installed emag on right side. I seem to run 10 -20 cooler now. I have the advance hooked up and works well. Runs awesome. 1 gph savings right off the bat. I can LOP now, before couldn't.

kevin
02-07-2012, 05:53 PM
Great news Buggs. My hangar neigbor has an RV-6A. They have 1 traditional magneto and one electronic. I asked them which they have. He said that he couldn't remember the name of the man that he bought it from but said that he thinks the current company that has them took over the business from the guy he got it from. I guess what I'm saying is that his set up is an older setup. They have been flying this RV for about 10 years now. They have no problems whatsoever with their mag/electronic mag. I really wish that this company would certify these so I could put a set on.

skywagon8a
12-14-2012, 07:48 AM
P-mag on an IO-360
All the O-360s which I have flown shake a lot on shut down. In order to minimize this situation I developed the habit of running these engines at 1000-1100 rpm, pull the mixture and as soon as it stops firing I close the throttle. It still shakes a little but not like it wants to jump off the plane. Now I have dual P-mags on the 180 hp IO-360 in my Cub. The shut down shake is gone. I can shut it down from an idle or from 1000 rpm with a nice smooth stop. Just like turning off a car. Also starting is a piece of cake. As many of you know fuel injected Lycomings can be a pain to start, particularly when hot. Mine starts great hot or cold. So far with 20 hours of use I think that the P-mags are fantastic. I'm also using the automotive plugs that Fedex Lou is using.

Tim
12-14-2012, 07:58 AM
I have an E-mag on one side and cooked it once, make sure you have a cooling tube pointed at the base. I got some temp. sensitive tape to tell the Max. temp, it gets to 180 max. FYI

Tim

Dave Calkins
12-14-2012, 10:06 AM
I second Tim in mentioning the necessity for cooling blast tubes. Use 'em!!!

Skywagon, what is your start procedure Hot and Cold? I have an IO360 Lyc. here that has made me look like a bumbler more than once when hot. Thanks.

DW
12-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Yup P-Mags are great and auto plugs are the only way to go I buy the best fine wire plug I can get $6.50 a plug try to do that with aviation plugs. At annual just toss them and put in new. and cooling tube a must.

Ruffair
12-14-2012, 07:15 PM
Question for anyone.

Is the P model the one that has the self-powering capability ?

So... "the P mag has an internal three phase brushless alternator that produce enough power to sustain the ignition when the engine is turning 800 rpm, or more."
is that correct..?

And the E mag what...? uses battery power..?

I have an I0-360 to build up and do not want to maintain the old "single drive dual mag" that it came with, and am looking into the
electronic mags.

thanks..Kem

RaisedByWolves
12-14-2012, 07:18 PM
Tim you normally fly with a bunch of C85 powered friends :howdy I would think at the power setting you need to keep up with us that you'd only burn a gallon or two an hour.

Glenn

The whole way to New Holstein he burned almost exactly the same as me in the c-90. It was around 5.5 GPH. I was at 2475 and leaned

FdxLou
12-14-2012, 09:42 PM
Question for anyone.

Is the P model the one that has the self-powering capability ?

So... "the P mag has an internal three phase brushless alternator that produce enough power to sustain the ignition when the engine is turning 800 rpm, or more."
is that correct..?

And the E mag what...? uses battery power..?

I have an I0-360 to build up and do not want to maintain the old "single drive dual mag" that it came with, and am looking into the
electronic mags.

thanks..Kem

Kem

Yes, the Pmag will run on an internal pmg (permanent magnet generator) above 800-900 rpm.
Make sure you run the iridium version of the NGK fine wire auto plugs (NGK BR-8eis). Like DW, I replace them at each annual...cheap insurance. Plan on 1-1.5 gph less fuel flow. I paid for mine in the 1st 250 hours! That was 1000 hours ago. I run dual P-mags.

Lou

Ruffair
12-14-2012, 11:12 PM
Thanks Lou..!
KEm

skywagon8a
12-15-2012, 07:48 AM
I have an E-mag on one side and cooked it once, make sure you have a cooling tube pointed at the base. I got some temp. sensitive tape to tell the Max. temp, it gets to 180 max. FYITim

The installation manual is clear about the blast tube installation. I made up the two blast tubes from sheet aluminum bent to a flat sided tube, riveted to the rear baffle and pointed directly at the cooling fins on the base of the P-mag.


I second Tim in mentioning the necessity for cooling blast tubes. Use 'em!!!

Skywagon, what is your start procedure Hot and Cold? I have an IO360 Lyc. here that has made me look like a bumbler more than once when hot. Thanks.

Leave the mixture control at idle cut off after stopping the engine always.

Cold start: Throttle cracked, Mixture rich, boost pump on to prime, (You can use a lot of throttle if you want more prime, then back to the cracked position) (low wing plane: leave pump on low boost to ensure engine pump picks up fuel. high wing plane, pump off.), crank engine immediately.

Hot start: Throttle cracked, Mixture idle cut off, (low wing plane: leave boost pump on to ensure engine pump picks up fuel. High wing plane, leave pump off.) Crank engine. When it starts: mixture rich.

This works 99.9% of the time. When the engine is hot, there is enough residual fuel remaining in the injection lines to dribble out after the engine stops. You can hear it squirting into the intakes. The heat in the cylinders expands the cold fuel in the injection lines thus forcing a small amount out of the nozzles. This in turn primes the engine for the hot start. Thus the necessity of leaving the mixture control in idle cut off in order to prevent flooding.

Sometimes, if things don't work out as planned and the engine wants to quit when the mixture is pushed rich, modulate the mixture by slowly pushing it rich until the engine is up to speed. In this case if you went to full rich too quickly you will have flooded the engine. Thus the requirement to meter the mixture control. This is where you get embarrassed.

Treat the mixture control as an on/off valve for starting purposes. In your mind, take the fuel servo out of the system.

In a low wing airplane, if the boost pump is not on priming the engine pump, it can take more time for the engine pump to pick up the fuel and pressurize the system than the engine will run on the residual starting fuel. This is why the aux pump is on with a low wing and off (not required) on a high wing for starting.

Remember the hot engine will flood more easily so that is important to start the process with the mixture control in idle cut off. This is different than the Continental system. Do not confuse the two.

Dave Calkins
12-15-2012, 11:13 AM
Thanks. Your method is precisely what I do now, but I was treating hot starts like a big injected continental before.......OOPs.

8GCBC
12-15-2012, 01:13 PM
Also, that sizzling noise on a IO-540 after shut down is the fuel still feeding.

The wing on my Aztec was completely replaced ( from Piper in the 70's ) from a ground start fire. Fires can start with IO engines pretty easily. I never have, but many in my AOR.