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ag-pilot
11-24-2005, 04:55 PM
Alex, I could be wrong but I think if you have ever been denied a medical you have to then show you are fit to fly. So if you know you can not pass one don't try to renew it. THen it is up to you to decide if your safe to fly.
Dave

mvivion
11-24-2005, 05:10 PM
Alex,

Look up the rule for sport pilot medical in the newest FAR.

If you have any known condition that would disqualify you from holding a regular medical, you cannot legally fly under the sport pilot category. There is no wiggle room. In essence, if you cannot pass a medical, you can get the condition cleared, so that you can pass a medical, and THEN you could fly under sport pilot, but if you have any disqualifying condition, you can't fly under sport pilot either.

many folks thought this was going to be a loophole, and you can choose to take that route, ie: just not renew your medical, and play dumb till caught. If anything bad happens, though, and the FAA can prove that you knew you had a disqualifying condition they are going to come after you.

In fact, rather than making the rules more lenient, they actually tightened them up so you can't even fly an ultra light now or a powered parachute without being able to pass a medical.

I don't believe a PA-11 meets the LSA rule standards either, by the way, due to legal gross weight. Has to be 1320 or less, I believe, though I don't have the rule here.

If I were you, I'd find a good doc, and see if there's a way to get "repaired" enough to get your medical back.

MTV

T.J.
11-24-2005, 05:19 PM
I think the PA-11 qualifies. The spec sheet list max gross at 1220 for the 11 and 1350 for the 11S.

Steve Pierce
11-24-2005, 08:03 PM
Let your medical lapse and fly your PA11 legally as a Sport Pilot.

http://www.sportpilot.org/faq/

cub_driver
11-24-2005, 08:20 PM
Alex

Have you talked with the Alaska Flight Surgen? If not you might want to call and talk with Betty Williams she can tell you if you would be able to regain you medical or not. I have no idea if your condition would warrent a total loss of your license. In some cases they will ask you to prove control and if you can they will issue you a new medical. You may be required to have more test more often to prove your fit to fly. Give Betty a call you don't have to give your name.

Cub_Driver

Bill Rusk
11-24-2005, 08:24 PM
Alex

Bummer. Don't forget that you can instruct, in some cases, without a medical. Basically you are flying and instructing on your students medical.
Something to look into.

Bill

Sam Beckett
11-24-2005, 09:42 PM
Alex,
I would remove my question off the open forum and disappear into the sunset....I think if you look into the reg, if you have a ailment that would prevent you from passing a medical you should disqualify yourself from flying period...It is not meant to be a catch all of if's " If I cannot pass I won't try and I will fly into the sunset forever..." Wrong answer....Pull this post, don't ask again here and route everything through a trusted member....Goodnight Alex....Nice question about your bungees, I would replace them every 5 years whether they need it or not....

Sam

8)

mvivion
11-25-2005, 12:30 AM
Sam,

Good advice, in my opinion.

Steve, read #3 FAQ about medical issues in the link you provided. It states pretty much what I did.

MTV

Steve Pierce
11-25-2005, 08:06 AM
I am not condoning someone flying with a medical condition but I also think a responsible person knows himself and his health better than a government bureaucrat.

From the Sport Pilot Medical FAQs.


You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties.

If you have a problem that you can't get a third class medical does that mean you are ineligible for Sport Pilot?

CptKelly
11-25-2005, 08:26 AM
Alex,
If you have already applied for a new medical, withdraw the request immediately. Otherwise, allow your medical to lapse, then you still qualify for the Sport Pilot thing...
Many guys in my neck of the woods just fly anyway, and as long as you fly to small airports, its not likely at all you would ever be ramp checked unless you have an incident or accident, then you are screwed. I know of guys who have let their medicals expire even when they can still pass a new exam. Just lazy or cheap....

Mike

flynlow
11-25-2005, 08:44 AM
Like MTV posted, if you have a medical condition that interferes with your fitness for flying you can't legally fly.
I was looking for anything in the Regs that insists you must report. I couldn't find it.
When you take a medical and fill out the form you must report your medical history then.

In my humble opinion if you let your medical expire then get 'fixed' to the point you are medically fit to fly, then fly under the sport pilot rule and you should be legal. You shouild be as healthy as you were to hold a PPL but you just don't have to jump through the hoops to prove it.

85Mike
11-25-2005, 09:35 AM
I still have a valid Class 3 medical in my wallet but there's more to it. I underwent an angioplasty with 3 stents installed in June. It would be no problem passing a ramp check as the feds know nothing about it at this time. My problem is my insurance policy. It states ( and the AOPA web site) very clearly that if I have anything debilitating that the medical is invalid. That's the first thing the insurance would look for if I had any problem and I won't take the risk (anymore) of flying without insurance. When I was younger (and dumber) I flew my 185 for 9 years with no coverage whatsoever. The hardware is too valuable now to take the chance.
I've been released by my cardiologist and my AME recently applied for re-instatement. I understand it could be some time in happening. Minimum 6 weeks with more tests forthcoming.
85 Mike

mvivion
11-25-2005, 10:28 AM
Everything I've found so far on Sport Pilot, including the FAA's own guidance on it pretty strongly supports the notion that you cannot fly with any known disqualifying condition.

So, if you go through angioplasty, the FAA has a procedure to reinstate your medical. You have to go through that procedure till you are eligible for a new medical. You then can opt not to get your NEXT medical, as long as no other condition occurs.

If, on the other hand, you have some condition which would prevent you from holding a medical, and you know it, you cannot fly aircraft legally under the sport pilot rule.

And 85Mike is absolutely correct: Insurance and liability is going to be what really drives that bus.

As I noted earlier, rather than making the medical certification rules simpler, the Sport Pilot rule actually made them stricter, since before you didn't need a pilot certificate or a medical condition statement to fly a powered parachute, for example.

Believe me, there have been a lot of folks looking for the hole to jump through on sport pilot. And a lot of folks are just going to allow their medicals to expire and continue to fly LSA's. I don't have a problem with that, but they should very carefully read the rule first, just so they know what they are doing.

MTV

n4873a
11-25-2005, 11:07 AM
I am of the opinion (perhaps erronious) that the third class medical is contributing to pilot health problems. Pilots in this category will intentionally avoid potentially life saving (or at least "life lengthening")medical procedures for fear of losing their right to fly. Treatment for marginal medical conditions will be neglected in two year bursts hoping that they can go as long as possible before succumbing to the feds. The general aviation pilot community as a whole would be much healthier and safer if the requirement for a medical were not held over our heads.

No, I've never been denied and my health is fine. I just wonder what the future holds.

mvivion
11-25-2005, 12:41 PM
Well said, and an excellent point. A good AME can help in this of course, but you are absolutely correct, the "Don't ask, Don't tell" approach isn't the best in my opinion either.

In fact, if one looks at the accident statistics related to inflight incapacitation of pilots due to medical conditions, it just almost never happens.

Course, the FAA would argue that means their medical certification process is working.....

Right.

MTV

Phil Kite
11-25-2005, 12:55 PM
This medical stuff really pisses me off! You cannot fly a 1000 lbs airplane that flys at 40mph but you can drive a greyhound bus sized RV and fill it full of grandchildren and drive it through a school zone?? :crazyeyes:

n4873a
11-25-2005, 12:57 PM
Course, the FAA would argue that means their medical certification process is working.....

Right.

MTV

They may argue it, but it would be a weak argument. The FAA would improve safety if they encouraged pilots to seek medical treatment without fear of losing their license. Pilots wouldn't intentionally dismiss chest pains as "indigestion" and they would go have it diagnosed and treated. Understand I am only talking 3rd Class here...the pros should still have a medical. I suspect the FAA thinks they would be without a job if they implemented this plan and that's why they hesitate. They could actually do a better job with the 1st and 2nd class stuff if they didn't have to wade through the ones who aren't hurting anyone but themself.

fobjob
11-25-2005, 01:16 PM
N4738a- I agree, however, you are assuming that medical procedures are 'life lengthening'....always get several second opinions, and go see different kinds of doctors...you walk into someone's office looking like a nail, and the doc has a big hammer on his desk..well!...
By the way, if you guys want to know how to clean out your arteries, I'll post it for you....takes about six months...

ps. If you are having rhythm problems, I'd load up on B vitamins and magnesium to see if they went away before letting surgeons into me....take magnesium supplements with NO FATS in your stomach,(+or- one hour) or they get flushed away...
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Not a doctor, not a mechanic, ignore everything I say...

n4873a
11-25-2005, 01:25 PM
Fobjob-

Go ahead and post the artery cleaning method. I am sure we will all be interested. Never hurts to think ahead! We might as well get started.

Also, I apologize for assuming they are "life lengthening," but I am saying they may have the "potential" to extend our useful years as a pilot.

fobjob
11-25-2005, 01:51 PM
Ya, the standard seems to be: Do they work for ten years? After that, anything goes...
The method is pretty simple, and has worked well for several friends of mine.
We can discuss that at length.
Five tablespoons per day of granular lecithin. This will dissolve oxidised cholesterol deposits IF they are not covered with calcium deposits. To decalcify, you have some options: go see a naturalpath and get some IV chelation treatments. Go for the 'big bag' not the short cut...if you go that route or not, you gotta get your bone metabolism optimized to prevent further calcification and other problems from that...so get a good calcium suppliment with 50% magnesium, and trace amounts of boron and copper. Get about 1.5 grams per day. Take it ONLY when there are no fats in your stomach...including the lecithin. (it's kinda a fat) plus or minus one hour, two if a meal is involved. This calcium/magnesium is the second option for decalcification...also, take 400 units/day of vitamin E (no more) to prevent oxidation/deposition. (vit E is a fat, too)
Remember that symptoms of peripheral artery disease only show up after about 70% blockage, and you are subject to stroke/heart attack at 50% and greater...so the symptoms will go away relatively quickly, but the job isn't done until well after that. Had a 78 year old friend call me after three days and say the numbness in his feet was going away. I didn't know he HAD numbness in his feet. His carotid artery blockage went from 90% to 50% in six months, and he never had to have the surgery. His memory cleared up too, probably due to the enhanced blood supply.
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Not a doctor, not a mechanic, ignore everything I say....

Cub junkie
11-26-2005, 01:13 AM
Fobjob, How do we know when we dont have any fats in our stomachs? isnt just about everything we eat contain fats ? I intrigued by your description of artery cleaning. Im not there yet but I want to fly safe as long as I can. Right now I still get the FAA 1st. class because I thats how I draw my paycheck. Once I turn the mandatory age of 60 when I step aside for the younger lions I still want to fly but I dont want to fly with any unsafe medical condition. So far I have never had any type of questionable condition with any FAA Aero Medical Examiner. Where can I learn more about some of the tecniques you have described?

fobjob
11-26-2005, 01:44 AM
We know when we don't have fats in our stomach when we haven't eaten any for an hour or two, and won't eat any for an hour or two after we take the magnesium/calcium....we absorb most of our magnesium from our drinking water, since we drink between meals, when there are no fats in our stomach! Because there is nothing in our stomach! The highest areas of high heart disease correlate tightly with the areas of the softest water....eastern mississippi, for example. There is fat in darn near everything, though...gotta watch out.

The information is out there, but hard to wade through, unless you are a dogged researcher. The very best condensed source is a book by the nutritionist Adele Davis, entitled: "Let's get Well" it's outta print, but can be gotten on Amazon. Much of the same info is in her book:"Let's eat right to keep fit", also out of print. Much valuable research was done in the sixties, but never made it into computer databases....therefore, few researchers bother to attempt to find it. Or any good info, for that matter.... :(

Another good book , and more up to date, is "the vita-nutrient solution" by Dr. Robert Atkins, of diet fame...
These books are to kept as reference, and NOT loaned out!
Here's a little source that's handy for herbs and such:
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11571.cfm?herbsaccept=yes

Richgj3
11-26-2005, 07:57 PM
Just my 2 cents. There are very few "disqualifying conditions" Almost every condition can be ok'd by FAA if you get enough tests often enough. The reason I decided to exercise the privledges of a Sport Pilot is that I was tired of the tests and letters needed. I am a type 2 diabetic. I am "well controlled" I could get a class 2 medical, and have for the past 6 or 7 years. I just got tired of the BS.

So, you don't have to disqualify yourself because you have a condition that won't allow you to pass a medical in the doctor's office. As long as you reasonably believe your condition WOULD be approved by OK city, then you can fly as a Sport Pilot (As long as you've never been denied).

Many people with triple bypasses get their medicals back, so in my opinion, if you have a triple bypass and you let your medical expire and your doctor says you're ok, go fly as a Sport Pilot.

Rich

mvivion
11-26-2005, 08:37 PM
Rich,

There is guidance from the FAA on the bypass thing. Supposedly, you have to basically clear the condition to the point you COULD get your medical back, THEN you no longer need a medical to fly LSA.

I think the rest of your post is correct. You've demonstrated that you do not have, or are controlling, a disqualifying condition. You've demonstrated that by getting a medical. Therefore, it sure seems to me that youv'e met the requirement of the light sport rule.

MTV

Roger Peterson
11-26-2005, 08:55 PM
I fly a PA11 under the sport license, no problem. Just Let your medical lapse and say no more.

n4873a
11-26-2005, 09:10 PM
[quote="fobjob"]Five tablespoons per day of granular lecithin. This will dissolve oxidised cholesterol deposits IF they are not covered with calcium deposits.

Where do you find it? I looked all over town today and can't seem to dredge any up. Looks like a guy would need a 10# bag just to get started. Lots of lecithin pills around, but no granular lecithin. Maybe I should try one of the health food stores...never been in one. Since I've always had slightly high cholesterol, I'm gonna bail on the Lipitor and give this a try for 6 months and see what the blood tests show next time around. If this is so effective, it makes you wonder why the doctors never mentioned it to me. $$$$ I guess.

Ron Babos
11-26-2005, 10:01 PM
Alex: I know of one case where the person needed an ICD implant and lost his medical. He got it back, with the argument that if a fly by wire aircraft is safe enough for passengers it ( ICD) should be safe enough to pass the medical.
Ron

fobjob
11-26-2005, 11:02 PM
N4873a-I've gotten mine from the internet and Wild Oats...about 5 bucks per 8 oz. Each tablespoon is about 3 grams. The 15 grams dose is for prompt corrective action, I've been taking it for about 20 years, so I take about one tablespoon/day for maintenance. GNC is really high priced. Health food grocery stores are better. Try the internet. Start with 16oz or so. It will lower your blood cholesterol.
I would be remiss if I didn't add the other things to enhance artery/heart health.(That's the trouble with nutrition...every nutrient is synergistic with others...you can't just throw one thing at a problem. Pretty soon your counter fills up with little bottles. :) But, that's good...cause they work!)
To wit: flaxseed oil capsules....Omega 3 fatty acids. The proverbial (bad) American diet is way short of Omega 3 fatty acids. I cook with canola oil, use canola oil mayonnaise, and take flaxseed oil caps...this WILL lower your cholesterol severely. In the words of the 120 year old European lady that passed away recently..."eat a little herring every day"-omega 3's...

Vitamin C. Men, apes, guinea pigs, and one type of fruit-eating bat have a damaged gene that does not make it anymore. If it still worked, it would make 50mg/kg body weight when you are well, and SEVEN times that when very ill. Yep, that's 6 grams per day! When well! IF you can catch a flu virus in the first few hours, 35 grams of vitamin C will defeat the virus.
You need vit C for collagen production,[and lots of other benefits] which is what plugs the holes in the artery walls...take at least 2000 mg/ day in two doses, twelve hours apart.
Grape seed extract. Unless you drink a glass of wine every day, you need this stuff to heal the lesions in your artery [and vein] walls. Don't want any blow-outs or delaminations, do we? Or nasty things leaking through the damaged blood-brain barrier and attacking our nervous sytems?
If you guys really want to get into this, we can talk about colloidal silver to kill the heliobactor pylori in your arteries, making calcium concretions....
As to why the doctors don't tell you.....they don't have classes on this in medical school....the drug companies fund the medical schools.....

fobjob
02-20-2006, 12:57 PM
Just an update with another anecdotal story...one of my engineer friends at work got diagnosed last year with beginning macular degeneration with the "white spots" on/under the retina and cholesterol deposits visible in the iris (arcus senilis). We practically had to strangle him to get him started on granular lecithin, and (it turns out)he took a way small dose(two TEAspoons/day)(2/3 tablespoon), but he just went back to the ophthalmologist after ten months and the spots and iris indications were totally gone! The doc was amazed and wanted very badly to know what he had been doing....

cubdrvr
02-20-2006, 04:58 PM
My 2 cents..........
At the age where heath problems can become more of an issue it may be a benefit to have 2 doctors..........your regular doc and your AME. As stated above a good AME can circle the wagons before the application is filled out.

jay heil
02-20-2006, 05:49 PM
the one thing missing from all these posts is [and i have a friend that has been going thru this for the past 2 years ] if you have ever been denied a medical you cant fly sport pilot thats the end of the story ok now you cant get your medical back after youve had a heart problem but you can get a special issuance for a medical this does not allow you to fly sport pilot ! all you can do is get a medical and be a private pilot or whatever class you can get with your special issuance but it never will be a regular medical certificate with any heart condition so you can not get your medical back and then let it lapse

Greg Smith
02-20-2006, 06:14 PM
Alex: I know of one case where the person needed an ICD implant and lost his medical. He got it back, with the argument that if a fly by wire aircraft is safe enough for passengers it ( ICD) should be safe enough to pass the medical.
Ron

OK, i may be a bit concerned here... What does ICD stand for in this case? The only thing I know of is "Implanted (or Internal) Cardiac Defibrillator." Please tell me that is not what is being referred to here.

Someone that has a need for one of these shouldn't be PIC without another pilot on board. ICDs are for immediate treatment of Ventricular Fibrillation (AKA Sudden Cardiac Death) and Ventricular Tachycardia (Usually followed rapidly by Hypotension and Loss of Consciousness in symptomatic cases).

We (EMS) are seeing more and more of these things in the field. They have a pretty good track record, but I have seen them fail to convert the rhythm. I have also seen them go bang when they were not supposed to. Even when they do work as advertised, it is like getting kicked by a mule, and you are going to be out of service for awhile. Having any of this happen solo (or with a non-pilot passenger, or over a populated area) would be a bad thing. :crazyeyes:

fobjob
03-18-2006, 01:40 PM
Just saw the blood test results for my engineer friend (above) who got rid of his macular degeneration symptoms with lecithin....cholesterol from 230 to 149. Lipitor could only get it down to 200...triglicerides from 660 to 420...still a bit high, but quite a bit lower.
He hasn't decalcified yet, and that step should not be skipped.

wadecalvin
03-19-2006, 10:10 AM
2 questions. Did the Lecithin take care of the macular degeneration AND the cholesteral problem?

Also, Are you talking about decalcification in the heart? Will Lecithin do this? Will anything do this?

did your friend find out about the calcification from an ebt scan?

MY dad has high cholesteral

Thanks

fobjob
03-19-2006, 11:17 AM
1. Yes. The macular degeneration is very probably just cholesterol deposits in the retina, but medical science (properly) has rigid rules of evidence, and is on the hairy edge of having enough data to call a spade a spade...
2.Yes. Calcification is usually assumed in coronary/peripheral artery disease unless proven otherwise. If the deposits are covered with calcium, lecithin won't have much effect, and the possible danger of removing structural support from beneath a flake of calcium, which could break free and cause an undesirable event....don't skip the decalcification process. However, he did not learn it from a test, it is always assumed, unless proven otherwise.
Read the above posts about decalcifying with magnesium. Lecithin only(!) dissolves cholesterol deposits.(and puts them back into solution to be absorbed by the cells)...(also prevents clumping of triglycerides and clot formation around them)(lecithin is the emulsifier that allows fat to circulate in a water-based solution[blood] without clumping) Lipitor and other statins will only lower deposition rates.
I was remiss in my earlier post. Part of the lower numbers are due to his consumption of flaxseed oil, which should go along with the lecithin treatment. As a benefit, flaxseed oil(omega 3's in your diet) probably also prevents cancer. [Along with ellagic acid in the diet.(nuts and berries)] Google the history of the Budwig Diet, which has brought people back from Stage IV....
Boy, do I like parentheses, or what?
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Not a mechanic, not a doctor, ignore everything I say.....
All normal and Cosmic disclaimers apply....

wadecalvin
03-19-2006, 02:39 PM
Thanks for the reply - sounds like its time to invest in some lecithin-

Thanks

Wadecalvin

fobjob
03-19-2006, 02:50 PM
I get mine in the 5 lb bag size at www.bulkfoods.com, stay away from the candy! The price there is as good as anywhere...DON"T forget the decalcification process!!!!

wadecalvin
03-19-2006, 08:03 PM
Fobjob- thanks, I read the posts - great info

Wadecalvin